Federal Government & Politics II

[casper]

Originally Posted by shreddog

In the end, this doesn’t change the fact that procurement in Canada is influenced by politics – just like in every country. For example, on CSC, both Canada and ISI want to increase the use of FMS on the program cutting out 100’s of millions of technical investment in Canada in order to reduce risk. Of course IC disagrees, as do a few MPs. In the end politics drive procurement just as much as technical need. I’ve seen my fair share of CONOPs changed to meet so called “industrial goals”.

I think we are far better off encouraging more Canadian development in these programs. The is risk as well with that project scope going foreign. Kingfisher and Cyclones are both foreign made platforms. Canada takes on project and operation risk with limited local benefits.

I think we need a strong industry policy focused on the government being a catalysis for more Canadian developed technology. The Americans are also focused on near sourcing trying to bring EV, battery and chip manufacturing technology back to the US. We need to pick some areas we want to see Canada assume a leadership role in and focus on encouraging that development to occur here.

[1overcosc]

So here's some bad news.

Unfortunately, there's a giant crop of online chatter accusing Elections BC of fraud.

It's here now.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

So here's some bad news.

Unfortunately, there's a giant crop of online chatter accusing Elections BC of fraud.

It's here now.

Oh no, complaints from online chatter? What a surprise...

And of course the complaints will be made by morons who have absolutely no idea how the vote counting works and that there are scrutineers watching, especially if there are recounts.

The interesting part will be to see if any scrutineers actually challenge any ballots. It's not the U.S. where different systems can exist between counties with voting on a bunch of things. It's only to vote for your electoral district's MLA. Not complicated. Maybe the online complainers will blame Dominion tabulator machines! Any recounts are not done by machine and are done by hand.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Oh no, complaints from online chatter? What a surprise...

And of course the complaints will be made by morons who have absolutely no idea how the vote counting works and that there are scrutineers watching, especially if there are recounts.

The interesting part will be to see if any scrutineers actually challenge any ballots. It's not the U.S. where different systems can exist between counties with voting on a bunch of things. It's only to vote for your electoral district's MLA. Not complicated. Maybe the online complainers will blame Dominion tabulator machines! Any recounts are not done by machine and are done by hand.

I believe the regulations stipulate a one week delay between the initial count and final count/recount. That provides lots of time for conspiracy theories.

BC also has a vote anywhere policy. You don't have to vote in local riding. If you vote in a different riding they check your id, print your ballot on the spot and you vote. If it is a smaller/low volume location without the tabulation machine, the ballet is sealed and counted as part of the final count a week later. The same happens for voters at care homes, military stations or remote work camps.

All said, now that they have added may of those extra uncounted votes, the outcome has not changed.

I think the Conservatives find technology scarry and they don't trust it. This crop of conservatives MLAs have problems with public health, climate modelling and the sciences/math in general.

The Conservatives also instructed their candidates not to talk to the press or participate in debates. Now that it is over and they are talking, they are sharing their views and some are quit "enlightening" as to what the Conservative party stands for. One who is in a close race shared her views on how indigenous communities were "savage" and addicted to drugs. Thankfully she will probably lose. Not clear what vetting process was used on these candidates. I would not be surprised if that party self destructs.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Brampton it is then!

Would the last army personnel based in the Maritimes please shut off the lights as they exit the region........

Somehow the gigantic US military manages to survive without any large army bases in Maine.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Somehow the gigantic US military manages to survive without any large army bases in Maine.

Perhaps not, but they still have lots of army bases in all sorts of Godforsaken places like Alabama and west Texas.

And as far as procurement is concerned, there is a nifty naval shipyard in Bath, Maine, where they build meaningful ships for the navy (not rusty AOPS with pea-shooter machine guns on the main deck).

Let's just base the whole damned army in downtown Toronto and be done with it. We'll let the senior general staff stay in Ottawa.

Those 12 new subs can be stationed at a base to be built on Toronto Island. They can be put to use looking to interdict drugs and American refugees crossing Lake Ontario on rafts.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Perhaps not, but they still have lots of army bases in all sorts of Godforsaken places like Alabama and west Texas.

And as far as procurement is concerned, there is a nifty naval shipyard in Bath, Maine, where they build meaningful ships for the navy (not rusty AOPS with pea-shooter machine guns on the main deck).

Let's just base the whole damned army in downtown Toronto and be done with it. We'll let the senior general staff stay in Ottawa.

Those 12 new subs can be stationed at a base to be built on Toronto Island. They can be put to use looking to interdict drugs and American refugees crossing Lake Ontario on rafts.

Is it a big stretch of the imagination that shipbuilding should occur on the coast and troops in peacetime conditions should be garrisoned near population centres?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

And what are the Maritimes "natural economic advantages."

I guess we'd better go back to fishing cod and lobster and growing potatoes.......

No sense having any ambitions beyond that.

I mean if you don't think shipbuilding is a core competence for the Maritimes (Irving corruption aside) who am I to disagree?

The Maritimes in my books should be something like Norway in my books. They used their offshore oil expertise to become an offshore wind juggernaut. That's an example of using natural economic advantages.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It's not just procurement TN, you seem to have a burr under your saddle against almost all military spending outside of the Montreal/Ottawa area and Toronto/SW Ontario. You certainly have had your feeling known about the location of military bases around the country (like Cold Lake in AB). You have grudgingly suggested that relocation to Edmonton would be best (although I think you would secretly like to see the western fighter base go to SW BC. I know you have said Bagotville should be relocated to Montreal. What about the military bases in the Maritimes? Is there any real reason why Gagetown is located in NB? Might be better to put the base in Brampton. If it wasn't for that thorny little issue that you actually have to locate a naval base on the ocean, I imagine you would rather prefer to locating the east coast fleet in Montreal.

Might I remind you that the military is not only funded by tax money collected in ON and QC, but, by every citizen of Canada, no matter where they live (even in God forbid the Maritimes).........

This is utter nonsense. I've said before that I'd like Bagotville closed too. And my concern is driven by recruiting and retention. We don't have any problems getting people to go to and stay on either coast. Out of a class of 30 coming off my course, 15 people ranked NS, NB or BC as #1, for 4 postings across those bases. Cold Lake? Fewer requests than postings. I don't think my course was any less representative than a cross section of Canadian society at the time.

At the end of the day, you can't generate military capability if you can't recruit, can't retain and half your budget it's frittered away on regional welfare. I am not going to make any apologies for being biased towards a stronger institution.

For those interested, the Perun channel did a great look on Canadian procurement this weekend. Let's see y'all criticize foreigners for observing the same things I am.

• Video Link

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Brampton it is then!

Would the last army personnel based in the Maritimes please shut off the lights as they exit the region........

Could definitely make the Saint John-Fredericton combined NB airport idea a lot less complicated, considering CFB Gagetown is smack dab in the middle of NB's two oldest cities.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Gagetown was built when the Army needed to train brigade and division sized formations and get them to Europe by boat. I don’t think that is something the military has been capable of doing in decades.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Brampton it is then!

Would the last army personnel based in the Maritimes please shut off the lights as they exit the region........

If the schools weren't in Gagetown, it would get the same treatment as Wainwright, where everything was moved out to Edmonton and Wainwright was reduced to a training area with very limited permanent presence. The army would love to be closer to Halifax, the place they can actually get on a ship or have access to a decent airport.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

So here's some bad news.

Unfortunately, there's a giant crop of online chatter accusing Elections BC of fraud.

It's here now.

A lot of that is a bunch of people who have never understood how elections work learning new things for the first time.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

So you are the RCAF Major on this Forum.The SeaKing replacement program was actually started under Mulroney and Campbell signed a Contract for 50 EH-101's in the SAR and Maritime configurations and as you know the bits and pieces come together before the final contract is signed. I bet certain decisions were set in stone before Chretien said "No elicopters , I write Zero elicopters"

Time marching on just might put a Maritime variant of the AW-101 on the ramp at Shearwater after all.Or should they fly out of Mirabel?

I have lived in Ottawa for five years TN. It is very rich for a resident of the City of twenty hour weeks and six figure Salaries claiming I am complaining about Welfare. Perhaps some time back in California is in order.

Gotta love the "I support the military" until they are actually honest vibe. Then, it's "they work 20 hr weeks and get six figure salaries". You tell your son the same thing about his service too?

Let's not forget that this discussion started because you insinuated that GD renting office space from Mic Macs supposedly cost the cyclone fleet several helicopters. Funny how you whine about that (which has zero actual substance), but never have anything to say about the spiraling costs on Irving shipbuilding (actually documented and criticized by the AG) which almost cost us the 6th AOPS and may yet cost us 1-2 CSCs. Guess for you, welfare is okay as long as Irving gets it?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

If the schools weren't in Gagetown, it would get the same treatment as Wainwright, where everything was moved out to Edmonton and Wainwright was reduced to a training area with very limited permanent presence. The army would love to be closer to Halifax, the place they can actually get on a ship or have access to a decent airport.

Gagetown should/t be a hardship posting. It is in suburban Fredericton, which is the provincial capital, a CMA of about 115,000 people and home to two universities.

The Fredericton airport can't handle troop transports overseas, but, the Romeo LeBlanc International Airport in Moncton can, and is only about a 75 minute drive away.

As for access to the port of Halifax, that is a valid concern. There aren't even any rail lines to Fredericton any more. I believe shipment of military vehicles to/from Fredericton is via the inland terminal at the CNR classification yard in Moncton. Perhaps this could be one reason in favour of re-establishing rail service to Fredericton (this, and for future passenger rail).

I don't think it is unreasonable that the Maritimes should have one base for each of the military services:
- CFB Halifax, NS - navy
- CFB Greenwood, NS - air force
- CFB Gagetown, NB - army

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Gagetown should/t be a hardship posting. It is in suburban Fredericton, which is the provincial capital, a CMA of about 115,000 people and home to two universities.

The Fredericton airport can't handle troop transports overseas, but, the Romeo LeBlanc International Airport in Moncton can, and is only about a 75 minute drive away.

As for access to the port of Halifax, that is a valid concern. There aren't even any rail lines to Fredericton any more. I believe shipment of military vehicles to/from Fredericton is via the inland terminal at the CNR classification yard in Moncton. Perhaps this could be one reason in favour of re-establishing rail service to Fredericton (this, and for future passenger rail).

I don't think it is unreasonable that the Maritimes should have one base for each of the military services:
- CFB Halifax, NS - navy
- CFB Greenwood, NS - air force
- CFB Gagetown, NB - army

Makes more sense to build a joint Fredericton-Saint John airport. Saint John is also a port city, it’s not like they couldn’t come up with a solution that involves SJ instead of Halifax.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Makes more sense to build a joint Fredericton-Saint John airport.

At least you're consistent. You're like a dog with a bone on this topic.

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Saint John is also a port city, it’s not like they couldn’t come up with a solution that involves SJ instead of Halifax.

True enough, except the navy is already based in Halifax. The logistics already exist there.