Trillium Line Upgrades & Extension (Stage 2) [Greenboro to Airport/Limebank] | U/C

[LRTeverywhere]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Train scheduling is a well understood math problem including allowances for delays and buffer time. Even with our general incompetence in rail projects, I really don't think the line is incapable of supporting an average 12 minute headway. Engineers wouldn't have designed the tolerances to be that tight. Also, since these trains aren't automated like the confed line, they aren't likely to be as clockwork, and they would probably have an expected a variability of +- 1-2 minutes in the schedule. These variances probably will average out to 12 minutes. You're not likely to be standing there for 30 minutes waiting for a train, but it might be from 10 to 14 minutes, usually landing around 12ish.

Exactly, and this is how it was before as well, sometimes trains would arrive perfectly in sync at Carleton, other times they would be a minute or two off and the other train would have to wait. Something I've been noticing now is the other train is able to leave as the other train is starting to arrive since the passing track is longer now. I have also been randomly timing train sequences and have encountered a few times where trains are running closer to 11min, but not consistent on the dot each time, but with variance.

[lrt's friend]

Good News! Trains are now running in the evening. I saw two trains at Greenboro around 11 p.m.

[Kitchissippi]

Seeing the trains running empty during Canada Day seemed like a waste when people could have used it for free.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Seeing the trains running empty during Canada Day seemed like a waste when people could have used it for free.

Sure it's free but without a stop at Pimisi for many it's a trian to nowhere today.
I bet we see a full house cleaning of the NCC post election.

[LRTeverywhere]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Sure it's free but without a stop at Pimisi for many it's a trian to nowhere today.
I bet we see a full house cleaning of the NCC post election.

That would be quite unfortunate seeing as the decision to close Booth st was made by Heritage Canada and not the NCC. Also believe Kitchissippi is refering to the empty line 2 trains that are testing and not the very well utilized today line 1 trains.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Seeing the trains running empty during Canada Day seemed like a waste when people could have used it for free.

Maybe next year. As it stands, the stations are not 100% ready for public use.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by LRTeverywhere

That would be quite unfortunate seeing as the decision to close Booth st was made by Heritage Canada and not the NCC. Also believe Kitchissippi is refering to the empty line 2 trains that are testing and not the very well utilized today line 1 trains.

Interesting. It's likely a very much bureacratic decision. Keeping everything controlled over any kind of logic.

Line 2 trains are of course not opertational. You certainly don't test or open them with crush loads of Canada day. If they allow people to walk to Bayview for South bound trains that would relieve some pressure. The obvious answer for the absolute chaos after the fireworks is to open more ways to get out. They could also consider using both sides of the tracks West bound from LeBreton and use Lyon for East Bound using both tracks as well for at least a few runs. That would work better with the extension where westbound they could go to the different endpoints and east bound there is room for a lot of trains before it gets backed up.

[lrt's friend]

I am afraid that the chances of a Labour Day opening are getting slimmer.

I just came back from South Keys. Overall, testing was more precise and regular, the best I have seen, until I was about to leave, when an airport train took a slot that should have been reserved for the southbound main line. There was a southbound main line train about to enter South Keys at the time. If there is any glitch or delay in scheduling, the main line should get priority. Up until that point, the trains were running relatively smoothly. The northbound train at South Keys was being delayed by a minute or two longer than you would hope for smooth operations waiting for the southbound train to reach the double track just north of South Keys, but that was the worst it got, until airport train slid into the mainline train slot. One improvement, was the reduction in time the airport train dwelled at South Keys. Including clearing the signals south of Hunt Club, the time required was reduced from 6 to 8 minutes down to 4 minutes. This should offer more flexibility for the mainline. However, the airport trains were not precise in their departures from South Keys. There was a little too much variability than you would hope for.

The station itself has not seen any significant changes. The southbound walkway from the station is now gated, so you have to walk towards the Juno pedestrian bridge before you can go south. Nothing inside the station (ie fare gates etc.) have changed in months. One of the ticket machines was unboxed just outside the station entrance.

[kmcamp]

I think we're definitely not launching until further in the fall.. As for the station there's nothing to do except cleanup.The fare gates will remain wrapped until right before opening. They already tested them last year.

I guess the race is on between line 2 and Eglinton, which opaque timeline will finally get an opening date

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

I think we're definitely not launching until further in the fall.. As for the station there's nothing to do except cleanup.The fare gates will remain wrapped until right before opening. They already tested them last year.

I guess the race is on between line 2 and Eglinton, which opaque timeline will finally get an opening date

From what I understand, the two lines have different problems. Eglinton has track/wheel compatibility issues and the Eglinton/Yonge station has been challenging to get built, whereas we are having train logistical problems relating to single track operations. In the long-term, the former will get resolved, whereas our problem may be ongoing. I have said it since this proposal became public that we are trying to run too many trains on too many sections of single track.

I have not watched the trains significantly except at South Keys, but the passing tracks to the north have been in operation since 2016 and improved as part of this project. However, I question how well thought out the single track section between South Keys and Brookfield has been. When I watch the trains, passing mostly occurs on a tiny section of track just north of South Keys. At the very minimum, we should have double tracked between South Keys and Greenboro, but Greenboro Station would be difficult to retrofit for double tracking.

Maybe, we will eventually get this working reliably, but scheduling glitches will be difficult to recover from. We have built too much inflexibility.

Overall, the Line 2 design leaves a lot to be desired. If the mainline had been fully double tracked, we would likely be open today. Airport trains would have been able to run to Bayview. Service frequency would be more flexible. We probably could function with the same number of trains with 7.5 minute service between South Keys and Bayview, and 15 minute service to Riverside South and the Airport. We could have also operated with Lint sized trains (smaller stations would suffice) and if demand required it, frequency could eventually be improved easily with a few more trains.

I look at Riverside South and Line 2 stations are poorly located. We were told that Limebank Station would spur development since it was approved in 2019. Very little has happened. Yeah, eventually something will happen. Instead, hundreds of homes have been built between Spratt and River Road. We should have brought rail closer to these new homes, with additional stations at Spratt and the Riverview Park n Ride next to the Vimy Bridge. The city must have known where development was being prioritized.

Of course, this would have cost a pile of money, but the success of rapid transit is dependent on offering proper service levels and locating stations in the right locations. We plan on revising the bus network based on Line 2 being a trunk line, but we are not offering trunk line service levels.

Also, based on what is happening today, I wish we would have made Bowesville Station a multi-modal station, so that connections between trains, and buses going in every direction would be easier, and to maximize the effectiveness of the Park n Ride. As it stands, connections between bus routes often requires a couple of station hop. Great for efficiency, but terrible for the transit rider.