Tempe Development Thread

[BurjKhalifa2Builder]

Insane Q but has anyone ever looked at moving the Ocotillo Power plant and replacing it with commercial developments? It's a top 10 producing plant so replacing it would be hard, but it is in a really prime location for the next 20 years of growth.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by BurjKhalifa2Builder

It's their new national HQ I believe

HQ will still be Oregon, this will be their AZ corporate office.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by BurjKhalifa2Builder

Insane Q but has anyone ever looked at moving the Ocotillo Power plant and replacing it with commercial developments? It's a top 10 producing plant so replacing it would be hard, but it is in a really prime location for the next 20 years of growth.

APS needs the power plant where it is. I'm not sure how power distribution works, but there's some sort of advantage/necessity of its location as opposed to generating stations farther flung.

[TllrSkyline-01]

Originally Posted by BurjKhalifa2Builder

Insane Q but has anyone ever looked at moving the Ocotillo Power plant and replacing it with commercial developments? It's a top 10 producing plant so replacing it would be hard, but it is in a really prime location for the next 20 years of growth.

The cost of moving that APS plant is insane...not worth it.

[cdfif030]

The plant is not moving anytime soon. They recently completed a plant modernization project in 2019 to replace the two 1960s era generators with four new peaker generators. Even worse for people within the immediate area, federal regulators already reported the plant spewed NOx, CO, and PM-10 at rates above EPA attainment levels before modernization (Federal Register). The modernization plan increased pollution.

"According to the EPA, modern coal plants can achieve greenhouse gas emission rates of around 1,700 lb CO2/MWh (pounds of CO2 per megawatt-hour)," yet the "...Ocotillo plant would be allowed to emit greenhouse gases at a rate of 1,690 lb CO2/MWh." (Sierra Club)

It's not healthy for people to live within three miles of a natural gas plant. This is not a clean plant. It is a carcinogenic eye sore that sits adjacent to some of Arizona's densest census blocks.

https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...y-power-plants

https://www.sierraclub.org/planet/20...ural-gas-plant

[builder03]

Looks like most of Tempe recently got updated streetview on google earth. Here's a good progress photo of The Pier vs South Pier.


https://earth.app.goo.gl/?apn=com.go...I1VUEQAjoDCgEw

[Forrester1998]

I can't find the article but I do remember the Rio 250 developers being relatively forthright about the timing of the development, saying they were going to wait a couple of years to see where the market was. Tbh, with the recently finished commercial developments that are still vacant (the Novus 4F parcel on Rio near McClintock + the new campus that Carvana built but won't be occupying) as well as stuff in the queue (tons of Novus stuff, Rio 250, Tempe Depot, maybe Idea Campus stuff?) I think a lot of these developers (mainly Novus) are going to have to bite the bullet and shift their projects away from commercial but they have all been pretty stubborn.

I did see the new street view update, I guess the biggest piece of new information I could get from that is that it does look like the old Park Terrace apartments (site of the Verve Tempe development) is vacant and ready for demo as of last month, it was fenced off and there were no cars in the lot. (Don't currently live in Tempe but maybe I'll try to take pictures next time I am there). I know that Verve did get their demo permit approved recently.

[az_daniel]

APS has a real knack for being right in the middle of the metro's most rapidly urbanizing areas lol

[Forrester1998]

Some small activity to keep an eye on, it looks like the developers of the Perry and Rio Salado development that went through approvals in 2022 recently were issued a permit to demolish the industrial building at 205 S. Industrial Drive, which was the only significant standing structure on the site. Doesn't necessarily mean other movement will follow but nice to see something happening.

https://epermits.tempe.gov/CitizenAc...howInspection=

As a reminder, this development received entitlements in late 2022 and is a 6-story, 308 unit midrise development. (Major apology: I have attached the city council agenda packet for the 2nd hearing of this item, which took place on December 1st, 2022. I would have preferred to attach the project specific pdf as are normally posted in the DRC meeting packets, unfortunately the link for this project contained an ampersand "PERRY&RIOSALADO.pdf" which kept breaking the link).

https://tempe.hylandcloud.com/Agenda...ttachment=True

I also think this project is a good reminder that even though there are some frustrating barriers to development (i.e., "can we move the APS plant?") there really is lots of more low hanging fruit when it comes to development space, including the industrial blocks near Rio/University/101 and Broadway/I10 that are being slowly chipped away at and converted to residential. I think the residential developments along Rio Salado in particular will be very important to ensuring that Tempe marketplace remains viable and even becomes better with a better pedestrian presence + hopefully more public transit w/ the streetcar potentially going there in the future.

[combusean]

What's the link with the ampersand in it? I can try fixing it.

[azsunsurfer]

There's still quite of a large amount of entitled sites in Tempe that haven't been developed yet...there's the lot off Curry someone posted the loopnet ad which would have been 300+ units...the site next to the Fountainhead offices that was another 300-400 units...the lots near Ikea that was suppose to be about 600 units...not to mention all the recently approved projects especially on Apache.

[azcats]

You guys keep having issues - that I have experienced in my lifetime. HA!

I lived through the biggest contentious battle in the area's history. Never have seen the angst...vitriol...near violence (police had to be stationed at city council meetings - because of threats of violence). For twenty years - the fight to tear down the AES power plant was the biggest issue in Redondo Beach. 2010 - bar none - it would be torn down ...then, AES said if the city wants to pay $500 million. Sure. Then, absolutely, it will be gone by December 2020 - the plant will cease operations. No, didn't happen. Don't want to relive it - but, to address a couple of your comments - things that I learned:

Power plants are part of a grid system. Part of the anger - was the electricity that was being produced - didn't go to Redondo - or, even the local region! They either sold the electricity to other electric companies - or, depending on usage in other regions - it could be 110 degrees in the San Fernando Valley - so, the demand was greater there - and the electricity - being part of the greater grid - had to be produced to be sent up there! That is a very simplistic explanation but, hopefully, you get the idea.

Now, since I have moved - it has finally ceased operations. I guess. However, technically, it could be powered up again - if needed in the grid system. It still hasn't been torn down. Now, the community will argue about it over the next twenty years - what needs to be built in that location! 25 years ago -when they thought the power plant was going away - like tomorrow - some wanted a "Village" plan - mixed use. Some argued for a "Park" plan.

https://www.dailybreeze.com/2024/01/...in-the-future/

This one gives you a good understanding of the grid system:
https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west...ations-to-2023

https://www.thelog.com/local/redondo...-through-2023/

https://www.latimes.com/environment/...-boiling-point

[OcotilloTea]

Thanks for the Perspective! Interesting to hear how similiar concerns played out in other parts of the country

Originally Posted by azcats

You guys keep having issues - that I have experienced in my lifetime. HA!

I lived through the biggest contentious battle in the area's history. Never have seen the angst...vitriol...near violence (police had to be stationed at city council meetings - because of threats of violence). For twenty years - the fight to tear down the AES power plant was the biggest issue in Redondo Beach. 2010 - bar none - it would be torn down ...then, AES said if the city wants to pay $500 million. Sure. Then, absolutely, it will be gone by December 2020 - the plant will cease operations. No, didn't happen. Don't want to relive it - but, to address a couple of your comments - things that I learned:

Power plants are part of a grid system. Part of the anger - was the electricity that was being produced - didn't go to Redondo - or, even the local region! They either sold the electricity to other electric companies - or, depending on usage in other regions - it could be 110 degrees in the San Fernando Valley - so, the demand was greater there - and the electricity - being part of the greater grid - had to be produced to be sent up there! That is a very simplistic explanation but, hopefully, you get the idea.

Now, since I have moved - it has finally ceased operations. I guess. However, technically, it could be powered up again - if needed in the grid system. It still hasn't been torn down. Now, the community will argue about it over the next twenty years - what needs to be built in that location! 25 years ago -when they thought the power plant was going away - like tomorrow - some wanted a "Village" plan - mixed use. Some argued for a "Park" plan.

https://www.dailybreeze.com/2024/01/...in-the-future/

This one gives you a good understanding of the grid system:
https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west...ations-to-2023

https://www.thelog.com/local/redondo...-through-2023/

https://www.latimes.com/environment/...-boiling-point

[BurjKhalifa2Builder]

My thinking is more political than economic. Gas fired plants are probably going to come under a lot more scrutiny if/when AZ really leans into renewables, and there are very very few parcels that big near rail transit lines.

Originally Posted by cdfif030

The plant is not moving anytime soon. They recently completed a plant modernization project in 2019 to replace the two 1960s era generators with four new peaker generators. Even worse for people within the immediate area, federal regulators already reported the plant spewed NOx, CO, and PM-10 at rates above EPA attainment levels before modernization (Federal Register). The modernization plan increased pollution.

"According to the EPA, modern coal plants can achieve greenhouse gas emission rates of around 1,700 lb CO2/MWh (pounds of CO2 per megawatt-hour)," yet the "...Ocotillo plant would be allowed to emit greenhouse gases at a rate of 1,690 lb CO2/MWh." (Sierra Club)

It's not healthy for people to live within three miles of a natural gas plant. This is not a clean plant. It is a carcinogenic eye sore that sits adjacent to some of Arizona's densest census blocks.

https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...y-power-plants

https://www.sierraclub.org/planet/20...ural-gas-plant

[Forrester1998]

Not news but...has anybody on here have insider info regarding the 7 story, 200 unit First and Farmer development? They literally had the ceremonial groundbreaking in March of last year before apparently re-flattening the dirt and leaving the lot to sit for over a year now. When they had the groundbreaking they projected that construction would be finished Fall of 2024 but that obviously is not going to happen. Plot is still flat and vacant as of last month. I've linked one of the many articles written immediately after the groundbreaking, this one from KTAR.

https://ktar.com/story/5479073/const...n-this-spring/

[builder03]

Originally Posted by Forrester1998

Not news but...has anybody on here have insider info regarding the 7 story, 200 unit First and Farmer development? They literally had the ceremonial groundbreaking in March of last year before apparently re-flattening the dirt and leaving the lot to sit for over a year now. When they had the groundbreaking they projected that construction would be finished Fall of 2024 but that obviously is not going to happen. Plot is still flat and vacant as of last month. I've linked one of the many articles written immediately after the groundbreaking, this one from KTAR.

https://ktar.com/story/5479073/const...n-this-spring/

Not too sure about the details but the contactor Adolfson & Peterson lost the job. Not sure if another contactor has picked it up yet.