LOS ANGELES | Transportation News & Discussion

[craigs]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Do you guys think it would be a better idea for LA to build streetcars/ light rail again through many of the major boulevards like Sunset, Wilshire, Hollywood, etc.?

I think dedicated BRT lanes are the way to go, especially in terms of cost. We could probably have gold-standard BRT on three or four boulevards for the cost of a single light rail line on one of those boulevards. Dozens of miles of steel rails and electrification cost a lot more and require more maintenance than BRT infrastructure.

[Nouvellecosse]

Before buses were a thing, streetcars were necessary to haul bus-sized loads. Nowadays buses can do that and if there's room for a streetcar ROW and political will for signal priority then buses can avoid traffic just as well as streetcars can. Modern streetcars can still potentially carry heavier loads than buses since they can be longer, but unless your bus route is running say, every 5 minutes and is at or near capacity, then the extra capacity isn't really needed. But if it is, then converting a really busy bus route into streetcars can reduce labour, energy, and maintence costs. So I'd say it depends how high the current and projected passenger volume on the route is.

[k1052]

People would have kittens at taking away car lanes on any of the major streets to put street cars back. Give me shallow cut and cover Innovia 300 lines with platform screen doors and short headways.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by k1052

People would have kittens at taking away car lanes on any of the major streets to put street cars back. Give me shallow cut and cover Innovia 300 lines with platform screen doors and short headways.

Merchants and small business owners would definitely push back against cut and cover too.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Merchants and small business owners would definitely push back against cut and cover too.

This is a smaller constituency to deal with in LA than literally all drivers.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by k1052

This is a smaller constituency to deal with in LA than literally all drivers.

They still have a lot more power than you might think, and can tie up or delay projects just as effectively, if not more.

Regardless of which path is taken, taking lanes away for dedicated BRT vs cut and cover construction for a subway line, it is certain there will be plenty of opposition.

[sopas ej]

Los Angeles doesn't do cut and cover for subway construction anymore; the last time they did that was the 1990s-early 2-thousand aughts. Even though it was blamed on the contractor, the whole Hollywood Boulevard tunnel collapse fiasco of the mid-1990s put an end to that.

It's been about tunnel boring now.

[homebucket]

^ That too.

So basically the options would be TBM under all these corridors ($$$$) vs at grade light rail ($$) vs BRT ($). I think given the cost and efficacy, BRT would probably be the best option. An at grade light rail line isn't likely to be substantially faster, but have significantly more costs associated with it.

[Busy Bee]

On the Purple Line Extension the running tunnels are TBM bored but the station boxes still require cut and cover construction. The speed and efficiency Metro contractors carried out excavation and temporary steel supported streets really is a feat that has gone underappreciated.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Regardless of which path is taken, taking lanes away for dedicated BRT vs cut and cover construction for a subway line, it is certain there will be plenty of opposition.

Opposition doesn't always stop it, though. Metro is currently removing a car travel lane on the stretch of Hollywood Boulevard between Gower and Lyman. The new road configuration includes a protected bike lane, bus boarding areas, and a central turn lane.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

On the Purple Line Extension the running tunnels are TBM bored but the station boxes still require cut and cover construction. The speed and efficiency Metro contractors carried out excavation and temporary steel supported streets really is a feat that has gone underappreciated.

I know that the station boxes are still cut and cover. But with the tunnel boring for the tunnels, though more expensive, there is no disruption at street level, only at the station box construction sites.

I remember how awful it was along Hollywood Blvd. during the subway construction back then, as well as in downtown LA in the early 1990s. Tunnel boring is so much better.