New York City - Transit News

[Illithid Dude]

CP would have worked much better if cabs and rideshare were exempt. It should only apply to privately owned vehicles.

[mrnyc]

Congestion pricing: How do people get to Hochul’s favorite Midtown diners? Mainly by foot and transit

By Ben Brachfeld
Posted on June 10, 2024


…

We spoke to 25 customers across the three diners and asked them how they arrived: 21 of them got there on foot or by mass transit, while only three drove a car and one took a cab.


more:
https://www.amny.com/transit/congest...iners-transit/

[Crawford]

There are rumors there might be some compromise brewing, where Hochul might try and save face.

There might still be CP, but it will start at a lower rate.

[dchan]

Really, people from NJ are actually going (never mind driving) to these three mediocre midtown diners when they can go to the awesome Tops Diner in East Newark?

• Video Link

Seriously, do yourselves a favor and go to Tops Diner sometime. I had the best chicken and waffles there that I ever had.

Or if Tops is packed, go to another NJ diner. NJ is known for diners, most of which are probably better than these mediocre Midtown diners and definitely significantly less expensive.

Originally Posted by Crawford

There are rumors there might be some compromise brewing, where Hochul might try and save face.

There might still be CP, but it will start at a lower rate.

Not surprised, considering the complete brouhaha that her office has been facing. CP advocates are totally pissed, and the MTA is pissed.

Hochul is in a position of "stupid or liar". She's either a complete idiot, or she's lying through her teeth with BS reasoning.

My main concern is one that I've known since I did my research project 15+ years ago. To wean drivers away from driving, you need very good to excellent quality transportation alternatives. And this is one area where I can't fault drivers here. Where are our excellent transportation alternatives?

I certainly don't trust the MTA much of the time. The MTA has stolen way too much of our valuable time through constant delays, whether through normal operations, scheduled maintenance, or unforeseen circumstances. As I have written many times, I won't evade fares, but I will definitely avoid using the MTA if I can help it.

And if CP goes through again, will the MTA significantly increase good quality (fast with no unexplained BS slowdowns) weekend and mid-day service to provide an "very good transportation alternative" to travelers priced out from driving? Let's see.

Likewise, will we see better bike and e-mobility infrastructure to provide another good transportation alternative? Will bike and e-mobility users have routes that don't conflict with speeding crazy drivers? Will they have the ability to park somewhere without worrying that their bike or e-vehicle will be stolen?

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by dchan

My main concern is one that I've known since I did my research project 15+ years ago. To wean drivers away from driving, you need very good to excellent quality transportation alternatives. And this is one area where I can't fault drivers here. Where are our excellent transportation alternatives?

I certainly don't trust the MTA much of the time. The MTA has stolen way too much of our valuable time through constant delays, whether through normal operations, scheduled maintenance, or unforeseen circumstances. As I have written many times, I won't evade fares, but I will definitely avoid using the MTA if I can help it.

And if CP goes through again, will the MTA significantly increase good quality (fast with no unexplained BS slowdowns) weekend and mid-day service to provide an "very good transportation alternative" to travelers priced out from driving? Let's see.

While I mostly agree, this part seems like a bit of a stretch. The idea that one of the cities with the most extensive transit systems in the world that already manages to provide the around half the transit trips in the entire country and the majority of trips in the city still can't support congestion pricing because it isn't perfect. Well driving isn't perfect either as there's a constant possibility of unexpected slow downs from things like accidents, construction etc. Yet transit had to be held to such a high standard that it's immune? Well that's just not realistic.

But fortunately, CP doesn't need wean most drivers away from their cars because congestion, when not exasperated by other factors, is caused by excess road usage that exceeds capacity not by an appropriate number of vehicles using the capacity available. And that excess usage can be a fairly small percentage of the total. So for CP to work well it only needs to dissuade a small percentage of drivers, or dissuade a larger percentage of drivers a small percentage of the time. In fact, if it pushed all or most drivers out of their cars it wouldn't make any money because there'd be no one to pay the charge or not enough people to counteract the administration costs. So one of the biggest benefits of CP would be lost.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

Congestion pricing: How do people get to Hochul’s favorite Midtown diners? Mainly by foot and transit

By Ben Brachfeld
Posted on June 10, 2024


…

We spoke to 25 customers across the three diners and asked them how they arrived: 21 of them got there on foot or by mass transit, while only three drove a car and one took a cab.


more:
https://www.amny.com/transit/congest...iners-transit/

Most business owners in urban areas have super wrong ideas about how their customers actually arrive at their places. Those same owners will also typically drive to their business in their personal vehicles so they see everything through that lens.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

CP would have worked much better if cabs and rideshare were exempt. It should only apply to privately owned vehicles.

Cabs and rideshares would only be charged once per day, so they would likely make money from the surcharge if they enter the zone multiple times per day. I do think they should've exempted private bus operators, but not because it would be an unaffordable charge. It just gave opponents of the CP plan another angle to attack it, while the revenue from private bus services would be minimal.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Cabs and rideshares would only be charged once per day, so they would likely make money from the surcharge if they enter the zone multiple times per day. I do think they should've exempted private bus operators, but not because it would be an unaffordable charge. It just gave opponents of the CP plan another angle to attack it, while the revenue from private bus services would be minimal.

in part this is where there is room for a compromise -- i would hope.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by dchan

Really, people from NJ are actually going (never mind driving) to these three mediocre midtown diners when they can go to the awesome Tops Diner in East Newark?

• Video Link

Seriously, do yourselves a favor and go to Tops Diner sometime. I had the best chicken and waffles there that I ever had.

Or if Tops is packed, go to another NJ diner. NJ is known for diners, most of which are probably better than these mediocre Midtown diners and definitely significantly less expensive.

i looked at the menu here and not to mention, but the breakfast dishes are literally half the price of ps. eat something before you come in!

[dchan]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

i looked at the menu here and not to mention, but the breakfast dishes are literally half the price of ps. eat something before you come in!

Well, not quite half, but Tops is definitely several dollars cheaper and probably better (I haven't been to Pershing Square to eat yet, nor do I have any interest in overpriced diner food).

Actually, I did manage to find a plum free parking spot one block south of Pershing Square on a Friday night during the December holiday season. It was a little past 7pm, and the spots on Park Av along the viaduct had just switched from commercial-only to free for all. I was the only car there. So maybe I'm the driver that Governor Hochul is talking about.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

i looked at the menu here and not to mention, but the breakfast dishes are literally half the price of ps. eat something before you come in!

They switched owners during the pandemic and demolished their old 1920s trolley car diner for a new diner...and 3x the prices..

[Crawford]

So the Biden administration formally signed off on congestion pricing today.

The only person standing in the way of a June 30 start is Kathy Hochul.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by dchan

Well, not quite half, but Tops is definitely several dollars cheaper and probably better (I haven't been to Pershing Square to eat yet, nor do I have any interest in overpriced diner food).

Actually, I did manage to find a plum free parking spot one block south of Pershing Square on a Friday night during the December holiday season. It was a little past 7pm, and the spots on Park Av along the viaduct had just switched from commercial-only to free for all. I was the only car there. So maybe I'm the driver that Governor Hochul is talking about.

i saw the egg dishes on the menu there were $15 and the amny said $30 for ps.

[mrnyc]

speaking of — food for lawsuits if she don’t sign off —




Congestion pricing: Feds give final approval, seem to counter Hochul’s economic reasoning for pausing Manhattan tolls

By Ben BrachfeldPosted on June 16, 2024


The Federal Highway Administration’s final approval for the MTA’s now-shelved congestion pricing program gave plaudits to the tolling scheme which Gov. Kathy Hochul scuttled for the sake of easing economic costs to drivers.

On the contrary, the approval decision on June 14 seemed to indicate that congestion pricing would provide significant economic benefits, including “travel-time savings and travel-time reliability improvements, as well as reduced vehicle operating costs.” 


more:
https://www.amny.com/transit/congest...nhattan-tolls/

[dchan]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

i saw the egg dishes on the menu there were $15 and the amny said $30 for ps.

The PSC online menu says it's $19 for eggs with bacon, home fries, and toast. The same dish is $15.50 at Tops Diner. So PSC is certainly expensive, but not $30 for eggs and meat expensive.