PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread II

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Now let's do dollars per mile of road. Assuming this site I found is correct, that would equate to ~$56,400 per road mile in NJ vs ~$42,900 per road mile in PA. That's about 31% higher for NJ.

Get out of here with those facts- they have no place in this discussion. I think PA also has like the 3rd most bridges in the country which is another factor that affects how they spend money and what they are responsible for. If they had more money Im sure they could buy more equipment, hire more people and do more. The PA turnpike costs a fortune to drive on- but the shoulders are clean. I think it now costs $11 to drive on I95 in MD- and shockingly its in good condition, the shoulders are clean, they are adding express lanes and there are tons of cops on patrol.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

For a point of reference, from what I can find, these are the budgets for PA and NJ DOT.

PA DOT: 10.8 BILLION per year
NJ DOT: 4.8 BILLION per year

Hard to believe NJ has cleaner highways because they have more funding.

Do you understand the concept of per capita? PA is 3 to 4 times the size of NJ and the two primary north south highways in NJ are supported by TOLLS.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Now let's do dollars per mile of road. Assuming this site I found is correct, that would equate to ~$56,400 per road mile in NJ vs ~$42,900 per road mile in PA. That's about 31% higher for NJ.

Another thing- NJ is one of the highest taxed states in the country so their budget per capita is one of the largest and dwarfs PAs budget, in fact I think they are very close to our budget even though they have 4 million less residents and a far smaller state.

[UrbanRevival]

Not here to race to the defense of PennDOT, but most people almost never take into account Pennsylvania's topography versus a place like NJ.

PA is one of the Top 5 hilliest/mountainous states in the US; NJ is like Top 15 flattest. It's a very overlooked factor in road maintenance and engineering costs, for sure, not to mention the cost of maintaining and replacing PA's bajillion tiny bridges over it's quadrillion creeks and rivers.

Look at the cost differences back in 2014--I can't imagine what they are just a decade later:

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/...-actually-cost

[PHLtoNYC]

Not my thing, but at least the large West Elm space won't be vacant for long.

Formula 1-branded arcade, bar opening in former West Elm space in Center City
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s

F1 Arcade plans to open its fourth U.S. location at 1330 Chestnut St. in Center City in 2025. The experiential hospitality concept will take over the 19,200-square-foot space previously home to furniture store West Elm, which shuttered at the beginning of the year.

F1 Arcade's Philadelphia location will include full-motion racing simulators in which customers can drive on some of the world's most iconic circuits. The venue will also feature a bar offering dishes taking inspiration from cuisines around the globe, cocktails and "Designated Drivers" mocktails.

The hospitality company, which licenses the F1 Arcade brand name from Formula 1, opened its first venue in London in 2022. It made its U.S. debut in April when it opened in Boston's Seaport neighborhood.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by Skintreesnail

Yeah, i wouldn't mind either, but realistically it's a pretty major east/west thoroughfare. And there's still fears due to the chestnut street transitway, which I feel would totally work today (light rail would be better though). Sansom would be a better permanent test, which was already kind of proved during the pandemic. After that, the roads connecting the squares: 19, locust, 7, vine (south). I feel like there would be less backlash since they aren't through running. Could even start with a woonerf concept that prioritizes pedestrian and bike traffic over cars, with very low speed limits and other traffic calming measures like chicanes.

Like that idea. Locust, and roads on the east side, get tricky bc of hospitals. I was thinking those 4-5 blocks on Walnut might work bc it’s already commercially supported by pedestrian traffic walking to the stores. Actually, it might attract even more shoppers having more space in the middle with walkways like Mexico City. I think it’d be hugely popular.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Do you understand the concept of per capita? PA is 3 to 4 times the size of NJ and the two primary north south highways in NJ are supported by TOLLS.

Agree with your point, but that's not what per capita means. PA DOT has a larger budget per capita.

Glad we're having this discussion again so we can clear up these things.

[reparcsyks]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Not my thing, but at least the large West Elm space won't be vacant for long.

Formula 1-branded arcade, bar opening in former West Elm space in Center City
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s

F1 Arcade plans to open its fourth U.S. location at 1330 Chestnut St. in Center City in 2025. The experiential hospitality concept will take over the 19,200-square-foot space previously home to furniture store West Elm, which shuttered at the beginning of the year.

F1 Arcade's Philadelphia location will include full-motion racing simulators in which customers can drive on some of the world's most iconic circuits. The venue will also feature a bar offering dishes taking inspiration from cuisines around the globe, cocktails and "Designated Drivers" mocktails.

The hospitality company, which licenses the F1 Arcade brand name from Formula 1, opened its first venue in London in 2022. It made its U.S. debut in April when it opened in Boston's Seaport neighborhood.

This is one of those spaces you just know will be closed within 1 year of opening. Felt the same way about Bankroll.

[Skintreesnail]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Like that idea. Locust, and roads on the east side, get tricky bc of hospitals. I was thinking those 4-5 blocks on Walnut might work bc it’s already commercially supported by pedestrian traffic walking to the stores. Actually, it might attract even more shoppers having more space in the middle with walkways like Mexico City. I think it’d be hugely popular.

Yeah i guess the hospitals could be problematic depending on their traffic pattern. I think most stays off locust though. I hear you on walnut, i think it would be great to be more pedestrian focused, even if it's not closed to traffic. In any case I'll keep my expectations realistic since there doesn't seem to be any political will around pedestrian or bike improvements. Haven't heard a peep out of the parkway redesign which was supposed to be released in the spring. And just read yesterday that the bike coalition got the cold shoulder from city hall on a bike improvement petition from the death on spruce. And Johnson, who has fought Washington ave improvements, is now president of city council.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Agree with your point, but that's not what per capita means. PA DOT has a larger budget per capita.

Glad we're having this discussion again so we can clear up these things.

This will be the time that everyone achieves a common understanding and opinion. I just know it......

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

This is one of those spaces you just know will be closed within 1 year of opening. Felt the same way about Bankroll.

Bankroll is a bit different. It was a boondoggle before it opened.

I have no idea how successful this place will be, but there are locations in London, Boston, DC, and more in the works.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Bankroll is a bit different. It was a boondoggle before it opened.

I have no idea how successful this place will be, but there are locations in London, Boston, DC, and more in the works.

And too, with the Formula 1 there should be a synergy with Lucky Strike bowling upstairs in the same building (since 2006) and Barcade next door.

[fairmounter]

This is good news for Spring Garden connector plans.

Also hope they can find a way to connect the Schuylkill river path to the Manayunk towpath.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20240817.html

[PHLJD13]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

This is one of those spaces you just know will be closed within 1 year of opening. Felt the same way about Bankroll.

I have the same knee-jerk reaction as you, because these places really aren't my thing, and because F1's budding popularity with Americans really seems more like a passing fad.

But I also never would have believed Spin, a ping-pong bar in a Center City basement, would still be chugging along after nearly 8 years either.

[Skintreesnail]

Originally Posted by PHLJD13

But I also never would have believed Spin, a ping-pong bar in a Center City basement, would still be chugging along after nearly 8 years either.

I'm don't know if this is unique to my office, but we've been having lots of team or department events at places like SPIN, putshack, top golf, and various escape rooms due to the interactive nature. This F1 place doesn't seem like that though. Saw that SPIN added a rooftop deck:
https://www.facebook.com/10006402579...YtZJ0wVrwH2Glu

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by Skintreesnail

Yeah i guess the hospitals could be problematic depending on their traffic pattern. I think most stays off locust though. I hear you on walnut, i think it would be great to be more pedestrian focused, even if it's not closed to traffic. In any case I'll keep my expectations realistic since there doesn't seem to be any political will around pedestrian or bike improvements. Haven't heard a peep out of the parkway redesign which was supposed to be released in the spring. And just read yesterday that the bike coalition got the cold shoulder from city hall on a bike improvement petition from the death on spruce. And Johnson, who has fought Washington ave improvements, is now president of city council.

Any change in Philly takes a long time if the city government is involved. If retailers commissioned a study that showed an increase in business activity and tax rev generated by making Walnut pedestrian, making the retail environment more stable, it may would get some traction in city hall.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Agree with your point, but that's not what per capita means. PA DOT has a larger budget per capita.

Glad we're having this discussion again so we can clear up these things.

If you look at pa's budget based on $/miles of roads or even on a per resident basis it is lower than NJ's road budget. That's what I meant. People think throwing out things like 3rd highest gas tax in a vacuum automatically mean PA has one of the most robust road budgets- it doesn't since states can fund transportation in a host of ways, not just from state gas tax.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by cardeza

If you look at pa's budget based on $/miles of roads or even on a per resident basis it is lower than NJ's road budget. That's what I meant. People think throwing out things like 3rd highest gas tax in a vacuum automatically mean PA has one of the most robust road budgets- it doesn't since states can fund transportation in a host of ways, not just from state gas tax.

If I recall correctly, our gas tax goes towards paying the State Police.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

If I recall correctly, our gas tax goes towards paying the State Police.

Some of it does, yes, and also towards roads and bridges and driver and vehicle services.