National Economy

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Replacing income was certainly needed. I don't see how this is even debatable. No developed country even those that avoided lockdowns had strong supports to avoid triggering a spiral into depression. Even with the benefit of hindsight I see no argument we could have avoided that.

The endless whining about CERB and COVID spending makes me think these people were born in 2022. We should all remember what the COVID days were like.

Of course in hindsight things could have been tweaked, but not a ton really.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The endless whining about CERB and COVID spending makes me think these people were born in 2022. We should all remember what the COVID days were like.

Of course in hindsight things could have been tweaked, but not a ton really.

That's only because BC and Alberta was lucky and had reasonable periods of lockdown. Trudeau's CERB extensions gave carte blanche for Ontario to embark on excessive periods of lockdowns, to the detriment of the province's society and economy. The feds should had stopped CERB funding at a much earlier time and forced the provinces to accept reality.

[P'tit Renard]

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The chance to make Toronto a global banking hub is being squandered
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[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

That's only because BC and Alberta was lucky and had reasonable periods of lockdown. Trudeau's CERB extensions gave carte blanche for Ontario to embark on excessive periods of lockdowns, to the detriment of the province's society and economy. The feds should had stopped CERB funding at a much earlier time and forced the provinces to accept reality.

So, the independent elected government of Ontario made policy decisions that are somehow Ottawa's fault? Does that mean you will be praising the federal Liberals for how BC and Alberta chose to act?

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Replacing income was certainly needed.

You massively (I have to suspect intentionally) misread what acottawa said:

Originally Posted by acottawa

There is no need for the government to massively exceed replacing lost income in its COVID spending. .

It was the extend of the income replacement, not doing it at all.

In theory if you're not working because of a Covid lockdown, you aren't travelling, going out for entertainment, etc, and need less money than you usually do.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by jonny24

You massively (I have to suspect intentionally) misread what acottawa said:


It was the extend of the income replacement, not doing it at all.

In theory if you're not working because of a Covid lockdown, you aren't travelling, going out for entertainment, etc, and need less money than you usually do.

I read it as massive income replacement so my mistake.

That said while there were certainly people on the margins who saw an increase in income that was a very small part of the expenditures and would be a rounding error on total spending. And anyone who was making less than $2000 a month priort to Covid and thus saw an increase in income were not exactly a prime untapped workforce that were disicentivized.

I agree this is really re-litigating the past. We had a 2021 election and the more lockdown more spending folks won. Without Conservative wafflin on the issue they probably win that election. Going forward we have that debt, we have a million immigrants. I don't see PP proposing anything to fix those issues. He will obviously be better than Trudeau/Singh on both issues so he still gets my vote but I think we should be realistic.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

So, the independent elected government of Ontario made policy decisions that are somehow Ottawa's fault? Does that mean you will be praising the federal Liberals for how BC and Alberta chose to act?

At the end of the day there is only one taxpayer.

If Ottawa took away the punch bowl and did not extend CERB/CRB/CEWS, Queens Park would have bulked at funding the income supports itself, and would have been forced to face reality and end lockdowns much earlier.

Labelling it as independent governments making independent decisions is a fool's game, because ultimately Trudeau's decision to extend CERB/CRB/CEWS gave Ford political cover to extend lockdowns beyond what was reasonable.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

At the end of the day there is only one taxpayer.

If Ottawa took away the punch bowl and did not extend CERB/CRB/CEWS, Queens Park would have bulked at funding the income supports itself, and would have been forced to face reality and end lockdowns much earlier.

Labelling it as independent governments making independent decisions is a fool's game, because ultimately Trudeau's decision to extend CERB/CRB/CEWS gave Ford political cover to extend lockdowns beyond what was reasonable.

I am not sure there is any relationship between the problems with CERB and the lockdowns. There were lots of services sector jobs available. The problem with CERB, etc. is that they incentivized not working instead of taking a job in a position that was not locked down.

In university I worked summers for minimum wage at a tourist attraction. They never opened in the summer of 2020. Without CERB, a student hired for the 2020 season would have gotten another job at a grocery store or fast food place. With CERB they had every incentive to stay home and collect CERB.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The endless whining about CERB and COVID spending makes me think these people were born in 2022. We should all remember what the COVID days were like.

Of course in hindsight things could have been tweaked, but not a ton really.

Lots of other jurisdictions handled COVID way better. It isn’t like better practices weren’t available.

They recommended against masking when there was clear evidence masking worked.
When they finally recommended masks, they encouraged useless cloth masks that were useless.
They disregarded medical advice on the effectiveness of vaccines and kept restrictions in place for a full year after vaccination was widespread.
They couldn’t make up their minds about what activities were actually high risk.
They discouraged work, which led directly to the immigration crisis.
They dumped enormous amounts of money into an economy that couldn’t absorb it, leading to the inflation crisis.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I am not sure there is any relationship between the problems with CERB and the lockdowns. There were lots of services sector jobs available. The problem with CERB, etc. is that they incentivized not working instead of taking a job in a position that was not locked down.

In university I worked summers for minimum wage at a tourist attraction. They never opened in the summer of 2020. Without CERB, a student hired for the 2020 season would have gotten another job at a grocery store or fast food place. With CERB they had every incentive to stay home and collect CERB.

Good point. It's too bad idealogy wouldn't let them but if they stopped CERB but sent everyone $3000 in the fall of 2021 it would have cushioned the blow and stopped the disincentive to work. My sister was trying to hire a nanny and they would only work under the table.

This is old news at this point though no?