Burnaby Updates

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Looks better than a previous design with "steps" in the design.

Yeah this design feels like it would just feel dated right away.



https://storeys.com/burnaby-telus-bo...-park-commons/

[BaddieB]

That development is too big and crowded for that area. A bit too far from each station and just simply a bit overbearing. This is the kind of development that should be going up in the industrial area of SE False Creek, not a 15 minute walk from the Skytrain.

[ecbin]

Originally Posted by BaddieB

That development is too big and crowded for that area. A bit too far from each station and just simply a bit overbearing. This is the kind of development that should be going up in the industrial area of SE False Creek, not a 15 minute walk from the Skytrain.

Agree that it seems too crowded but it's not that far from Patterson, an 800m walk from the farthest corner and 650m from the closest point.

In my dreams we'd relocate Patterson station over to this development as the Patterson area is already well served by Metrotown and putting a station here opens up a lot of low density land for TOD density.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by ecbin

Agree that it seems too crowded but it's not that far from Patterson, an 800m walk from the farthest corner and 650m from the closest point.

In my dreams we'd relocate Patterson station over to this development as the Patterson area is already well served by Metrotown and putting a station here opens up a lot of low density land for TOD density.

Um...no, it likely won't.

The reason they're able to propose a development that tall and that dense there is because that pocket of land where the Boot sits, occupies the sliver between the border with Vancouver and Burnaby's only existing viewcone protecting Central Park views to Brentwood.

Any other lot in the area to the east would likely be considerably height restricted by said viewcone and is the reason why you don't see a lot of tall buildings south of Kingsway and the baseball fields before you get to Patterson.

There's already a lot of density in Patterson area and there's going to be considerably even much more in the coming years with a lot of the proposed developments now going through the application cycle at the city - and in addition to the 5 or so towers currently either under construction or in some stage of site-clearing preparing to go into construction in the immediate vicinity of the Skytrain station.

Even with the full buildout of this project with a couple of 60 storey towers I doubt very much you'll have much more or comparable density and potential future skytrain traffic there than you''re likely to have in the Patterson area - even as it remains the 'quieter side' of Metrotown.

That's on the Burnaby side.

It's probably a different story on the Vancouver side, but they still have the comical scenario that towers in the Joyce Collingwood and Boundary neighbourhoods are still height restricted in Vancouver to the Telus Boot height - which itself is going to be more than dwarved by its new neighbours when this development gets built out.

It's probably the reason why the developers of this project were (are...still?) proposing the addition of a new skytrain stop at their site that they would partially help fund the construction for.
But they would have to make the case to Translink and the city that there would be the density to justify such an addition even before you consider the logistical and technical issues of creating a stop there.

It's not an unreasonable proposal in my opinion - a lot of people feel it's too close to either Patterson or Joyce-Collingwood stops to justify adding a stop there, but there are other stops on the line that have even shorter distances between them (admittedly mostly in Downtown Vancouver).

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by BaddieB

That development is too big and crowded for that area. A bit too far from each station and just simply a bit overbearing. This is the kind of development that should be going up in the industrial area of SE False Creek, not a 15 minute walk from the Skytrain.

I mean,...part of the reason it feels "too big" for that area is because of the artifically imposed restriction that had limited developments on the Vancouver side to the height of the Telus Boot on the one hand, and the existence of the Central Park and it's protecting Viewcone that itself limited heights of any potential developments on the Burnaby side before getting to Patterson, on the other hand/side.

This site sits on the one sliver that's unhampered by either restriction.
It's just outside the viewcone on the Burnaby side (While still considered part of the 'Metrotown Downtown Core' in the OCP), and since Burnaby doesn't care about the Telus Boot as a height restricting landmark building, it's not constrained by that height restriction like its Vancouver-side neighbours are.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by BaddieB

^ There's rumors of the City of Burnaby buying that site to move their City Hall. Just only rumors.

....

I thought the City Hall relocation plans died not that long ago when Hurley and his cohorts in the council were scared off of the proposal to relocate it to the Library and Civic Square site by the usual nimby brigade, and they instead decided to rebuild at the current Deer Lake location.

Would they really be willing to risk the wrath of those folks again by reviving those plans and trying to relocate it to this site instead?

I don't really see what changes (in terms of the arguments that were made against moving it) other than not tearing down the library and taking over Civic square.
This site wasn't even one of the options they had proposed (but then again it wasn't up for sale then).

It would be interesting to see how they swing this, if there's anything to those rumors.

[ecbin]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Um...no, it likely won't.

The reason they're able to propose a development that tall and that dense there is because that pocket of land where the Boot sits, occupies the sliver between the border with Vancouver and Burnaby's only existing viewcone protecting Central Park views to Brentwood.

I can't find my prior post on this topic but I have looked into this view cone and it's not really view cone like a Vancouver view cone. There is no height restriction documented and there's no specifics on what exactly the view is that needs to be maintained. It only said something to the effect that preservation of the views between Brentwood and Swangard should be considered - it was a single sentence in the planning doc. It took me quite a bit of digging to track it down so I don't want to go do it again but it's not a real view cone in the Vancouver sense unless there's some behind the scenes, unpublished documentation on this that I can't get access to.

That said, I suspect there would be lower height limits between Brentwood and Swangard but we're still talking 10-12 story buildings versus the 70 story stuff Burnaby likes to approve. 10-12 stories scattered all the way up to Burke is a LOT of density.

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

It's not an unreasonable proposal in my opinion - a lot of people feel it's too close to either Patterson or Joyce-Collingwood stops to justify adding a stop there, but there are other stops on the line that have even shorter distances between them (admittedly mostly in Downtown Vancouver).

AIUI the provision for a station is right at Boundary which would put the station about 800m from Patterson and about 1100m from Joyce - not an unreasonable distance between stations.

[BaddieB]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

I thought the City Hall relocation plans died not that long ago when Hurley and his cohorts in the council were scared off of the proposal to relocate it to the Library and Civic Square site by the usual nimby brigade, and they instead decided to rebuild at the current Deer Lake location.

I was someone you could call a part of that NIMBY brigade. I would love a Metrotown City Hall, the problem was the city thought it would be a good idea to build it on park land. They chose Bonsor or Civic Square as locations, which is just a bad idea. Metrotown is going to be a dense place and needs as much park space as it can get. Central Park is nice and big, but only services one side. Parks should be spread out and within less than 5 minute walks, and the ones that do exist should stay as parks.

I'm hoping they can finesse a deal with Ivanhoe to build a new City Hall on a section of where the mall is now, but I doubt that will happen.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by ecbin

I can't find my prior post on this topic but I have looked into this view cone and it's not really view cone like a Vancouver view cone. There is no height restriction documented and there's no specifics on what exactly the view is that needs to be maintained. It only said something to the effect that preservation of the views between Brentwood and Swangard should be considered - it was a single sentence in the planning doc. It took me quite a bit of digging to track it down so I don't want to go do it again but it's not a real view cone in the Vancouver sense unless there's some behind the scenes, unpublished documentation on this that I can't get access to.

That said, I suspect there would be lower height limits between Brentwood and Swangard but we're still talking 10-12 story buildings versus the 70 story stuff Burnaby likes to approve. 10-12 stories scattered all the way up to Burke is a LOT of density.



AIUI the provision for a station is right at Boundary which would put the station about 800m from Patterson and about 1100m from Joyce - not an unreasonable distance between stations.

That's what I thought too.

And Patterson itself is currently 600m from Metrotown station, so those two stations are even closer to each other than this potential new station would be to either of its neighbours.

And as I mentioned before in Downtown Vancouver you have even closer situated stations like Granville station that's 300m and 400m from Burrard and Waterfront Station, respectively.
(granted, those are in Downtown which is different from suburban stations)

[ecbin]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

That's what I thought too.

And Patterson itself is currently 600m from Metrotown station, so those two stations are even closer to each other than this potential new station would be to either of its neighbours.

If I had to trade stations (and I know they'd never do that) I'd happily trade Patterson for Boundary even if it hurts my (infrequent) commutes to downtown (Patterson is closest to me). I understand why Patterson is there but with how the Joyce area has developed all the way to Boundary and then opportunity on the Burnaby side Boundary is the right place for another station.

This will, of course, NEVER EVER happen in my lifetime.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by ecbin

AIUI the provision for a station is right at Boundary which would put the station about 800m from Patterson and about 1100m from Joyce - not an unreasonable distance between stations.

It's at Kingsway, no idea if it would be straddling Kingsway or east of the road. The station was moved to what is now Patterson but the guideway geometry wasn't changed so technically a station can be built. At the most it would be 500m from Patterson so there is no reason to.

[ecbin]

Originally Posted by madog222

It's at Kingsway, no idea if it would be straddling Kingsway or east of the road. The station was moved to what is now Patterson but the guideway geometry wasn't changed so technically a station can be built. At the most it would be 500m from Patterson so there is no reason to.

That would be right where the bottle depot/Smith is which would be a pretty crappy spot to put it then so I would agree that it wouldn't make sense.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by madog222

It's at Kingsway, no idea if it would be straddling Kingsway or east of the road. The station was moved to what is now Patterson but the guideway geometry wasn't changed so technically a station can be built. At the most it would be 500m from Patterson so there is no reason to.

From this thread:
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...=145264&page=2

Posted June 6, 2010.

Originally Posted by red-paladin

I sent Translink a letter asking them what are the possible locations for future stations. This is what they told me:

Hi (red-paladin),

Sorry for the delay in responding to your email – I just received it as it was circulated rather widely given the involvement of different staff for the different lines…

Line by line, on the Canada Line:

· Capstan Way station came very close to being constructed but it was contingent on a substantial contribution from the developer of an adjacent property and the economic downtown destroyed the economics of the project so it is not currently proceeding but is likely to come back.

· YVR3 was planned to support an expanded airport terminal - if the Airport Authority proceeds with that expansion, the station would proceed as well. The Airport Authority’s strategic plan may have more detail on it.

· 33rd and 57th Avenue stations would only be built with a large developer contribution, should future land use plans support developments of the necessary scale. 33rd would be a particular challenge given the adjacency to Queen Elizabeth Park.

On the Expo Line, the geometry allowed for future stations at:

· Clark Drive

· Kingsway (E of Boundary Rd)

These could still be built if desired.

The section along Stewardson Way has excessive gradients (1.4% and greater, when SkyTrain stations need to be on a 0.5% grade or less) as well as very few tangent (straight) track sections of sufficient length.

On the Millennium Line, the geometry only allows for a future station at Woodlands – most of the line has excessive gradients and curvatures between the original stations. Where flat and straight sections exist, they are often too close to existing stations to be of consideration (e.g, approx 500 m E of Commercial-Broadway station).

Hope this assists, let me know if you have questions.

________________________________________________
Ian Fisher, Project Planner, Project Planning
TransLink (South Coast British Columbia Transportation Authority)
1600 - 4720 Kingsway, Burnaby BC V5H 4N2 Canada
Tel 604.453.3058 Fax 604.453.4697
ian.fisher@translink.ca www.translink.ca

[BaddieB]

Woodlands needs it's own station. That dense community is so far from Sapperton or Columbia, and it wouldn't slow down Surrey to Vancouver traffic.