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  #41  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2024, 10:37 PM
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Never thought NYC nor SF were particularly dirty, outside of the areas where the homeless congregate in SF. Coming from LA, we have a lot more dirtiness than either one of those cities but its 99% related to all the homeless encampments and crazy people on the streets
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  #42  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2024, 12:10 AM
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It's funny because homelessness and the perceived/visible "dirtiness" or trash it causes is not on the methodology of this list; for pollution, it's:

Median Air Quality Index
Presence of Water Quality Violations
Greenhouse-Gas Emissions
Annual Excess Fuel Consumption (Gallons per Auto Commuter)
Share of Residents Exposed to Near-Roadway Pollution
RSEI (Risk-Screening Environmental Indicators) Score
Percentage of Smokers

I have yet to see a completely clean American metro area.

The cleanest big city/metro I've experienced was Tokyo and Vienna... clean public transportation, clean public restrooms... some naughty...

Oh my, did I say that?
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  #43  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2024, 5:44 PM
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Other than the garbage that can collect on the highways, Detroit is not a particularly dirty city. Downtown especially is very clean. Bogus list.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2024, 5:57 PM
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The USA is the richest country in the world. It has the highest per capita income among large industrial (G7) countries.

Yet its cities are quite filthy, in comparison to those in other G7 countries as well as to non-G7 advanced economies.

The cleanest big cities, by a long shot, are in East Asia, specifically Japan and Korea. Surprisingly, China does well in the centres of big cities (the peripheries...well that is a different story).

European cities are comparatively tidy, with Northern European cities considerably tidier than their southern counterparts (Naples, for example is super interesting but super filthy).

Next, Canadian cities, which to some extent have gone downhill in terms of tidiness (although in my opinion, Montreal has gone the other direction, as it was much filthier in its nadir period of 1980-2000).

I was surprised by how filthy San Francisco was (I was expecting it to be cleaner). New York and Chicago are quite dirty, albeit better (especially NYC) compared to my experiences visiting these places in the 80s.

In the filthiness sweepstakes, Latin American cities generally rank below American cities. African cities are the worst.
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Last edited by MolsonExport; Jul 2, 2024 at 7:19 PM.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2024, 6:00 PM
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^ For Canada, I've only been to Vancouver, but I didn't find it significantly cleaner or dirtier than SF. I don't know about pollution levels and things like that but at the street level, no significant difference.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2024, 6:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
European cities are comparatively tidy, with Northern European cities considerably tidier than their southern counterparts (Naples, for example is super interesting but super filthy).
Rome is beautiful but graffiti covered and can feel a bit rundown. It looks much more rundown than NYC, SF, Chicago, etc. Athens looks even more rundown than Rome, with much less charm than Rome. Cities in Spain and Portugal are usually well-kept and in similar condition (or better) to northern Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
In the filthiness sweepstakes, Latin American cities generally rank below American cities. African cities are the worst.
Although I love this city a lot, I've never seen anything like the amount of trash dumping that exists in Rio de Janeiro, particularly next to the highways leading in/out of the city. The rich areas of the city are practically pristine, but it can look like you're driving through landfills in other parts of the city. I struggle to think of a city in the United States that would have a scene even remotely comparable to what I saw there. I remember the height of Detroit's illegal dumping problems back in the early 2000s when you could easily find abandoned boats sitting in the middle of city streets, and that was nothing compared to what I saw in Rio.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2024, 7:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
The USA is the richest country in the world. It has the highest per capita income among large industrial (G7) countries.
Only because our wealthy are outsized compared to other G7 countries but so are our poor. We are more 'third world' in that respect and the rest of the G7 has a better social safety net to prevent these people from falling through the cracks.

Living in the SF Bay Area was eye opening, absolutely mind boggling displays wealth but third world conditions with tent cities everywhere you looked.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2024, 11:10 PM
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I bet SF (and NYC) has a social safety on par or better than other G7 countries, but still the homeless that are native to SF are just different breed in comparison.. it's more of a cultural and drug problem maybe.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2024, 12:13 AM
llamaorama llamaorama is offline
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Honestly, I think SF's inability to deliver on homeless services despite having the money for them has to be more scrutinized as a cause for it's issues.

There are other liberal cities with a lot of homeless people but they have been more effective at the actual delivery of homeless assistance and construction of supportive and affordable housing facilities.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2024, 3:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
The USA is the richest country in the world. It has the highest per capita income among large industrial (G7) countries.

Yet its cities are quite filthy, in comparison to those in other G7 countries as well as to non-G7 advanced economies.
Not true. American cities are comparable to European cities in cleanliness.
Yes some Northern European cities are cleaner, but also, some Euro cities are dirtier than anything in the US.

Paris, for example, is fairly dirty even by US standards. Dirtier than Chicago you mentioned.
A lot of northern European cities are fairly small. I am sure some place like Provo, Utah would have comparable cleanliness.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2024, 4:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llamaorama View Post
Honestly, I think SF's inability to deliver on homeless services despite having the money for them has to be more scrutinized as a cause for it's issues.

There are other liberal cities with a lot of homeless people but they have been more effective at the actual delivery of homeless assistance and construction of supportive and affordable housing facilities.
There is a culture on the West coast that sees keeping people living on the street like animals and committing slow-burn suicide with drugs as somehow more humane than forcing them to get help and rehabilitating them.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 8:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llamaorama View Post
This list is probably based on bad metrics and dumb, but anecdotally, Houston is indeed dirty. It has to be by far the most decrepit looking modern Sunbelt city.

It's a combination of high heat and humidity and overgrown vegetation and a lack of zoning and general don't give a f attitude in some places.

Here is a location which isn't particularly representative of the city and is like 99 percentile god tier level trashy, but what a pigsty

https://maps.app.goo.gl/8M6woFRb4DNwXsP69

What's interesting is you can't really call it a slum because most of the housing is actually in acceptable condition and is all fairly new, it's just a complete lack of any site grading/earthwork or engineering that went into developing the neighborhood and a total disregard by the people who live there for basic norms about not trashing up the street. Some of the houses are actually sort of big, but surrounded by awfulness. I don't know if you can blame poverty here based on some of the cars you see parked out on the road.
You can't call it in Houston either. It's in an unincorporated community in Harris County called "North Houston."

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