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-   -   Saint Louis: Up the arch, trains, and the largest Native American city—Cahokia (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260913)

Cirrus Feb 5, 2025 6:41 AM

Saint Louis: Up the arch, trains, and the largest Native American city—Cahokia
 
Cirrus in the West Series!
See them all: Denver, Boulder, Santa Fe, Taos, Southern Colorado, Kansas City, Saint Louis.


Welcome to the long-delayed final post in my summer road trip series! We passed through Saint Louis on the way to Colorado, and though I'd driven through a dozen times as a kid, had never stopped to explore as an adult.

We only had a few hours. Not nearly enough time. My top priorities were Union Station, Cahokia, and the unique downtown subway. More on all those later. My daughter--a big Percy Jackson fan--wanted to go up the arch. I had hoped to see the Central West End, Soulard, and the Delmar Loop, but unfortunately there wasn't time for neighborhoods. I'll have to go back for them another time.

Well, here's the city:




That great vantage point is atop the greatest Native American pyramid, mightiest building in what was the greatest Native American city: Cahokia.

Brief history lesson: Cahokia was the largest pre-European native city in what's now the United States. At its peak around the year 1100 it had maybe 20,000 people, making it bigger than London or Paris at the time. It was the center of the vast Mississippian civilization, which lasted longer than Cahokia itself, but died out quickly in the 1500s from European smallpox and measels. When Hernando de Soto explored the Mississippi River in 1532, he found large, complex cities, and left disease in his wake. By the time Europeans arrived in larger numbers to settle permanently, the civilization was gone.

It's one of the great tragedies of human history.

Anyway, here's what Cahokia looked like at its peak:


Image from the State of Illinois. All other images in this thread are mine.


See the big pyramid in the middle? Here is it today:




It's 5 minutes off the Interstate. A super easy stop. I'm honestly kind of pissed my history-loving parents never took us there on any of my childhood pass-throughs.

From the top, you can sense the impressive size of the native city, with its smaller mounds visible sprawling outward from the center.




There is not much to it now. A short, simple stop. There is a visitor center but it was sadly closed for renovation last summer.




From there we parked and took the light rail to Union Station.

Union Station is gorgeous. The most warmly ornate train station I've ever seen in the United States. The big stations in NY, DC, Chicago, LA... they're great but they're not this.




















It would be the best train station in America if it were still a train station. But the front of the building and the great hall are a hotel now. No train-related uses.

The back of the building, including its old train shed, is now a tourist zone.






The actual trains are shunted far out back. Amtrak has a depressing looking Amshak three blocks away that you can't even really say is part of Union Station. I didn't manage to photograph it. The light rail station is a perfectly fine light rail station, but it's more adjacent to Union Station than part of Union Station.




The Metro light rail & subway is pretty great though. It's not a big system, but it connects a lot of nice destinations, has good frequency on the interlined portion of track, and it's grade separated even downtown where it uses a subway. It's one of the better US light rails.






That downtown subway is fascinating. It was built on repurposed 19th century freight tracks, giving it a heavy stone and brick vibe that's really unique.










To cross the Mississippi River, the light rail slinks along the underside of the mighty Eads Bridge, built 1874.






There's a station incorporated into the underside of the bridge, resulting in really charming brick arches






It's very close to the Gateway Arch. How convenient.




We're doing it.




The Percy Jackson book series is a bit like Harry Potter, if instead of magic it was Greek gods, and instead of England it was set in the United States. One of the cool things about it is many of the action sequences take place at major US landmarks, including a big battle atop the Gateway Arch in the first book. My kid's into it, and thus is into seeing the sites from the book IRL. What parent could say no to that?

The way you can look directly down and see the legs of the arch below you is... impressive.




If you zoom way in you can see our parked car at the light rail station across the river, at upper left.




The top of the arch:




Oh look, Union Station there in the middle distance with its red roof.




And that must be Clayton, MO out behind:




The big park at the base of the arch seems like it's there to look at more than use.






Inside the arch visitor center there's a model of the old waterfront, torn down to build the arch and its gigantic park grounds. I do like the arch but dang, can you imagine if this were still here today, lined with cafes? It'd be an American Nyhavn, one of the most famous city streets in the country.




The 20th Century, man, it was kind of a head scratcher.




Thanks for looking! Bye!

Shawn Feb 5, 2025 8:26 AM

Great pics as always, and I love that LRT station built into the Eads Bridge - very cool vibes.

OhioGuy Feb 5, 2025 3:11 PM

Union Station looks beautiful! I think Cincinnati’s Union Terminal still remains my favorite, but this one gives it some serious competition!

samne Feb 5, 2025 4:39 PM

Wow...Beautiful Train Station. What a view from the Arch.

St. Lous is so bricky even the train tunnels are brick.

LAsam Feb 5, 2025 4:52 PM

This bring back some memories. Back when my wife and I drove cross country from Columbus to LA we stopped off in St Louis for a few hours. I had no no idea you could actually go up the arch before that trip... it's pretty fun! I remember they had these seats that looked like they were from the 60's when you ride up... are those still there? Same as you, we rode the trains through the brick tunnels downtown which was very memorable.

Cirrus Feb 5, 2025 5:27 PM

The little pod elevator cars? Yeah. Still fabulously mid-century.


Not my photo. Photo from Thomas Hawk on Flickr.

Echoes Feb 5, 2025 9:09 PM

Loved your photos. Thank you!

ColDayMan Feb 5, 2025 9:53 PM

Yeah, the Arch and the Union Station are awesome.

mhays Feb 5, 2025 11:58 PM

The back of the train station looks like a cool spot (as is the rest of it), despite the tragedy of no trains. Love the view from the arch...thank your daughter for us.

STLgasm Feb 6, 2025 3:59 AM

Great photos, a St. Louis photo thread is long overdue! Next time be sure to explore the urban neighborhoods outside of downtown. Presently, downtown proper is pretty lethargic (although a number of exciting developments/rehabs are on the horizon which hopefully add some vibrancy in the core. Still, the true spirit of St.Louis lives in its diverse historic urban neighborhoods, world class city parks and top tier cultural institutions. Thanks for visiting!

meh Feb 6, 2025 5:37 PM

great pics! thanks for posting.

Quote:

The way you can look directly down and see the legs of the arch below you is... impressive.


^ by 2027 there should be at least two additional 300–350' towers in this view (30-story Albion CWE tower and 29-story DT West mass-timber tower) and possibly a third if a Ballpark Village phase 3 announcement is made soon...

Murphy de la Sucre Feb 10, 2025 6:48 AM

perfect harmony, 1 pic may be one of the best angles to show stl skyline as a metropolis

xzmattzx Feb 19, 2025 6:09 PM

Nice pictures! I have been wanting to visit St. Louis recently. Some summer I'll have to see a Phillies game there when my schedule allows.

I think the park around the arch is to look at because it's Gateway Arch National Park. I can't imagine there being softball fields and basketball courts like a neighborhood park in a national park. On the other hand, I do think it's pretty unusual to take what looks like a regular city park and make it a national park. I think it would've been better off keeping Gateway Arch as a National Memorial, which it first was.

Union Station looks great!

How close did the light rail get to Cahokia? I wonder if I could avoid renting a car if I ever had a chance to go to St. Louis.

Cirrus Feb 19, 2025 6:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xzmattzx (Post 10375181)
How close did the light rail get to Cahokia? I wonder if I could avoid renting a car if I ever had a chance to go to St. Louis.

About 5 miles to the closest station. I don't know how reliable Uber is in East Saint Louis but assume it would be more economical than renting a car for just that.

meh Feb 19, 2025 7:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xzmattzx (Post 10375181)
I think the park around the arch is to look at because it's Gateway Arch National Park. I can't imagine there being softball fields and basketball courts like a neighborhood park in a national park. On the other hand, I do think it's pretty unusual to take what looks like a regular city park and make it a national park. I think it would've been better off keeping Gateway Arch as a National Memorial, which it first was.

yeah, uses are highly restricted due to the Nation Park designation. agree that retaining National Memorial status would have allowed more flexibility in use, but also saddles the City with upkeep, whereas NP means the Feds maintain the grounds... or at least it used to mean that until Trump and Musk raped everything. not sure what'll happen going forward.

mrnyc Feb 22, 2025 12:12 AM

serpent mounds > cahokia pyramid

Dogtownbnr Mar 3, 2025 7:44 PM

Love the shots of Downtown West to Clayton & from the top of the Arch. Thanks! :cheers:

downtownpdx Mar 5, 2025 8:46 PM

Fun tour with great commentary, thanks!

AviationGuy Mar 6, 2025 1:52 AM

Really enjoyed this thread. I last was in St. Louis in the early 2000s, at a workshop. We had a blast each evening after work. One evening, we ate at a famous Italian restaurant downtown. Can't recall the name of it, though.

plinko Mar 6, 2025 3:41 AM

It's been a very long time since I've been there and oddly I arrived and departed via Amtrak (this would have been in the early 90s when I was in high school). I remember being disappointed that the old train station wasn't the actual train station anymore. Coming over the Mississippi and seeing the Arch from the train though? Marvelous.

Cool trip. I want to head there at some point to see a Cardinals game.


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