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wave46 Feb 27, 2019 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8489689)
It said 4 times a week, not 3, but still. I wonder if the acceptance of the JV will dictate if the route stays, or if NZ will withdraw from service and just let AC have it? And if the JV doesn't go through, will the AC added capacity cause NZ to draw back. That would be sad to lose them as a carrier, just to get another AC dreamliner on it.

And I wonder how many US bound pax would use it and why, it is out of the way for literally any US city except Anchorage to fly thru YVR. Same with the Australia flights, they brand it as a NYC option all over the place, but that routing makes no sense at all from a distance or time standpoint when they can go thru LAX or SFO?

I can't see the connection angle either for US customers. Maybe a few people from Seattle might drive up to Vancouver? Otherwise, Vancouver's a decent trip out of the way compared to Los Angeles and San Francisco for 95% of the country, with poorer connection options to boot to the US.

I see this as a gateway for Canadians who want to go to NZ without having the hassles of transiting the US. But we already get that with Air New Zealand, as they're a Star Alliance codeshare already.

I'm not sure about how Air New Zealand is doing on the route. I'd like a choice of carriers, certainly, but I'm looking at a trip for next year to NZ so I'm only interested for selfish reasons.

wave46 Feb 27, 2019 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 8489705)
That's the key. Why go through LAX when you got other choices?

If I'm a US citizen, why would I lengthen my flight by hours on an already long flight? Also, why would I choose an airport that probably has worse connections to wherever I live, since YVR has a very limited selection of US destinations compared to LAX and SFO?

SpongeG Feb 27, 2019 10:45 PM

this guy takes lots of flights and he liked the Air Canada flight and one of the reasons was the easier connection in YVR

Air Canada Business Class review - new york to Melbourne via Vancouver

Video Link

nname Feb 27, 2019 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 8489721)
If I'm a US citizen, why would I lengthen my flight by hours on an already long flight? Also, why would I choose an airport that probably has worse connections to wherever I live, since YVR has a very limited selection of US destinations compared to LAX and SFO?

Connecting at LAX or SFO, you need to wait in queue to clear custom, get your luggage, change terminal, re-check your luggage to the destination, and then re-clear security. The queue for the custom at LAX may sometimes be over an hour. Line for the security can also be long. Add in everything else would easily cause you to miss your flight.

Connecting at YVR, no need to re-check luggage, and no need to clear Canadian custom for Australia->US direction. Connecting passenger also have priority in the US custom I've heard.

If you try to book BNE/MEL to New York, the shortest duration is actually AC via YVR.

zahav Feb 28, 2019 8:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 8489794)
Connecting at LAX or SFO, you need to wait in queue to clear custom, get your luggage, change terminal, re-check your luggage to the destination, and then re-clear security. The queue for the custom at LAX may sometimes be over an hour. Line for the security can also be long. Add in everything else would easily cause you to miss your flight.

Connecting at YVR, no need to re-check luggage, and no need to clear Canadian custom for Australia->US direction. Connecting passenger also have priority in the US custom I've heard.

If you try to book BNE/MEL to New York, the shortest duration is actually AC via YVR.

I can't see how transiting thru YVR is quicker than LAX if you are going to NYC. Not only is the flight path shorter via LAX, but as mentioned there are more flights from LAX-NYC to choose from. I am glad AC is somehow finding a market for these connections, but I don't personally understand how it makes more sense. It would be like flying YVR-YYZ with a stopover in DEN instead of YWG (assuming in the unlikely event you didn't get a non-stop).

Now that these routes have been announced, any guess for what might come next?

nname Feb 28, 2019 8:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8490161)
I can't see how transiting thru YVR is quicker than LAX if you are going to NYC. Not only is the flight path shorter via LAX, but as mentioned there are more flights from LAX-NYC to choose from. I am glad AC is somehow finding a market for these connections, but I don't personally understand how it makes more sense. It would be like flying YVR-YYZ with a stopover in DEN instead of YWG (assuming in the unlikely event you didn't get a non-stop).

Minimum connection time at YVR is 1:10, whereas minimum connection time at LAX is 2:00. While the flights may be 20min longer of sitting on your sit, you save 50min of running around the terminals with your luggage and lining up.

MEL-YVR-EWR is 10621mi
MEL-LAX-EWR is 10375mi

There's actually not much difference.

Just search on google flights on MEL or BNE to New York - the flight with shortest duration on most days is actually via YVR. From SYD, the flight via DFW is only 3min shorter and everything else is longer.

The Chemist Feb 28, 2019 2:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8490161)
I can't see how transiting thru YVR is quicker than LAX if you are going to NYC. Not only is the flight path shorter via LAX, but as mentioned there are more flights from LAX-NYC to choose from. I am glad AC is somehow finding a market for these connections, but I don't personally understand how it makes more sense. It would be like flying YVR-YYZ with a stopover in DEN instead of YWG (assuming in the unlikely event you didn't get a non-stop).

Now that these routes have been announced, any guess for what might come next?

Spoken like someone who has never transited through LAX - it's horrific. The customs lineups in particular are a nightmare. YVR is miles better, and if I was offered the choice between transiting at these two airports, I'd take YVR everyday and twice on Sunday.

esquire Feb 28, 2019 4:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chemist (Post 8490288)
Spoken like someone who has never transited through LAX - it's horrific. The customs lineups in particular are a nightmare. YVR is miles better, and if I was offered the choice between transiting at these two airports, I'd take YVR everyday and twice on Sunday.

I find any big American airport to be a shitshow that is best avoided, at least when it comes to international connections. Most of the customs areas are ugly dungeons with long lines. I'll put up with it if the savings are compelling enough, but it's not something I ever look forward to. DEN, MSP might be decent options but I've never flown internationally from those two. But EWR, ORD, SFO, LAX...yuck. YVR is a glorious oasis by comparison.

And what is up with the security areas in those big US airports? You go to the SFO international terminal and it's all folding tables and misaligned rope barriers as though it was September 12, 2001 and everything was just put in place that morning. And chronically understaffed.

Cage Feb 28, 2019 5:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chemist (Post 8490288)
Spoken like someone who has never transited through LAX - it's horrific. The customs lineups in particular are a nightmare. YVR is miles better, and if I was offered the choice between transiting at these two airports, I'd take YVR everyday and twice on Sunday.

I have transited LAX from International to Domestic.Terminal 7 while not eye appealing is functional.

What LAX has going for it over YVR is multiple customs halls. LAX has customs halls in terminals 2, TBIT, 6-7. YVR solution is to run a long hallway from the WS gates on concourse A&B. A separate CBSA hall would help and cost a lot less that $200 million.

Also I tend to find that USCBP and TSA to be more consistent than Canadian counterparts CBSA and CATSA.

For example, Global Entry is entirely automated where as CBSA Nexus kiosks still sometimes result in Officer intervention. The CBSA officers don't like Nexus cause it takes away their job. USCBP officers view GE as a tool to take away the boring parts of screening low risk travelers.

Second example: TSA precheck is way more consistently delivered than the CATSA equivalent. I would trade knowing what is expected from the Americans versus Canadian nicer customer service but its my lane and you will do as I say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8490417)
I find any big American airport to be a shitshow that is best avoided, at least when it comes to international connections. Most of the customs areas are ugly dungeons with long lines. I'll put up with it if the savings are compelling enough, but it's not something I ever look forward to. DEN, MSP might be decent options but I've never flown internationally from those two. But EWR, ORD, SFO, LAX...yuck. YVR is a glorious oasis by comparison.

And what is up with the security areas in those big US airports? You go to the SFO international terminal and it's all folding tables and misaligned rope barriers as though it was September 12, 2001 and everything was just put in place that morning. And chronically understaffed.

Comparing Canadian airports to American is little bit apples to oranges. The American airports handle much higher volume and job functions are split between different agencies. For example A Canadian passport holder can use the American side of the primary inspection lane. The USCBP officers know this but the line handlers employed by the airport ignore this rule. Prior to getting my Nexus with GE privileges I had it out with a few line handlers.

A great comparison is YYZ or YVR at peak times compared to ORD, SFO, LAX, etc. Also, you have to compare the experience of going through CBSA as a foreigner line rather than Canada/USA line. Different experiences in each line.

As to security. The TSA is implementing CATSA Plus style machines (those machines were invented in Europe) much better than CATSA in Canada. The makeshift nature of the pre-board security screening area is a feature of the TSA security charge being 1/3 the cost of equivalent Canadian charges. The major airports and the airlines are now allowed to purchase equipment for TSA agents to use and have non TSA staff do the menial tasks such as sorting pax and moving the empty bins. CATSA on the other hand has a "we must do everything, including jobs were can't properly staff for.

begratto Feb 28, 2019 8:37 PM

January stats for Montreal-Trudeau / YUL

Total : 1,533 vs 1,420 +7.9%
Domestic : 490 vs 475 +3.3%
International : 702 vs 623 +12.5%
Transborder : 341 vs 322 +5.9%

Source: TRAFIC PASSAGERS EMBARQUÉS/DÉBARQUÉS* (Payants et non-payants) Variation Aéroports de Montréal JANVIER 2019 (EN)

thenoflyzone Feb 28, 2019 9:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begratto (Post 8490905)
January stats for Montreal-Trudeau / YUL

Total : 1,533 vs 1,420 +7.9%
Domestic : 490 vs 475 +3.3%
International : 702 vs 623 +12.5%
Transborder : 341 vs 322 +5.9%

Very good start to the year. If that growth rate holds, YUL will handle 20.96 million passengers in 2019 !

isaidso Feb 28, 2019 9:07 PM

Doesn't New York to Tokyo via Vancouver more closely follow the customary flight path than New York to Tokyo via Los Angeles? I was under the impression that flights travel in a curve when shown on mercator projection maps.

https://thepointsguy.com/wp-content/...016/07/map.gif

Looking at this flight path map below it's not hard to see why Vancouver is better than Los Angeles as a stop over between the US east coast and east Asia. Los Angeles and San Francisco are too far south.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/GIwFR.png

wave46 Feb 28, 2019 9:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 8490969)
Doesn't New York to Tokyo via Vancouver more closely follow the customary flight path than New York to Tokyo via Los Angeles? I was under the impression that flights travel in a curve when shown on mercator projection maps.

That depends on the direction of travel and the jetstream.

Generally, westbound flights take the great-circle route to avoid the jetstream and fly the least distance.

Eastbound flights tend to head more southerly and take advantage of the jetstream to decrease time and fuel used.

Rogie Feb 28, 2019 9:52 PM

YYZ fell just shy of 50 million passengers in 2018, and for the first time, international numbers surpassed domestic.

https://westernaviationnews.com/2019...senger-record/

zahav Feb 28, 2019 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 8490163)
Minimum connection time at YVR is 1:10, whereas minimum connection time at LAX is 2:00. While the flights may be 20min longer of sitting on your sit, you save 50min of running around the terminals with your luggage and lining up.

MEL-YVR-EWR is 10621mi
MEL-LAX-EWR is 10375mi

There's actually not much difference.

Just search on google flights on MEL or BNE to New York - the flight with shortest duration on most days is actually via YVR. From SYD, the flight via DFW is only 3min shorter and everything else is longer.

You're right, I am surprised the YVRoptions are so viable. Going strictly off gcmap.com as well as the multiple flights doesn't not tell the whole story I guess. At the end of the day we have to trust that these airlines have some good info to assign aircraft to certain routes, and see potential in redeploying as such. It is a significant jump in seats for AKL, as it stands now NZ is keeping its daily flights still.

That AC release that noflyzone referenced did mention Vietnam, Singapore, and Philippines, but obviously with current aircraft utilization those won't happen

thenoflyzone Mar 1, 2019 3:40 AM

ORD is the only one that hasn't posted December yet.

International passenger numbers

1. JFK 33.8 million (+3.7%)
2. YYZ 31.6 million (+6.7%)
3. LAX 26.05 million (+4.4%)
4. MIA 21.86 million (+1.9%)
5. CUN 16.4 million
6. PTY 16.2 million
7. MEX 15.75 million
8. SFO 14.22 million (+5.9%)
9. EWR 14.1 million (+9.7%)
10. ORD 12.67 million (til November, +10.3%)
11. YVR 13.49 million (+8.5%)
12. ATL 12.5 million (+3.6%)
13. YUL 12.27 million (+9.2%)
14. IAH 10.73 million (+3.7%)
15. DFW 8.74 million (+2.7%)
16. FLL 8.61 million (+19.8%)
17. BOS 7.58 million (+5.3%)

SpongeG Mar 1, 2019 5:56 AM

this an older article of interest

EXACT SAME FLIGHT: It’s Cheaper to Fly Detroit-Toronto-Amsterdam… Than Just Toronto-Amsterdam

Did you know that people sitting on the exact same Air Canada flight who will have connected from the US have often paid half the price you paid if you boarded in Canada? For the exact same flight! Here’s a funny (or sad) example of how airfare pricing works — and why it actually makes sense.
Our priority at Flytrippers is spotting amazing flight deals from 9 Canadian cities, but we also want to help you travel more with great tips on this blog to share our air travel expertise. And a lot of the most frequent questions we receive from our readers happen to be about how flight prices work.

For example, why is it often cheaper to fly from Montreal to Asia than from Montreal to Vancouver, even though the latter is obviously way closer. And why I can fly for $18 in the US, in Europe and Asia but flights within Canada are terribly expensive.

It’s a very complex subject that can’t be wholly covered in a single blog post, but let’s give you a few answers by using this funny example.

...

https://flytrippers.com/exact-same-f...nto-amsterdam/

nname Mar 1, 2019 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG (Post 8491504)
this an older article of interest

EXACT SAME FLIGHT: It’s Cheaper to Fly Detroit-Toronto-Amsterdam… Than Just Toronto-Amsterdam

Before AC and a whole bunch of Chinese airlines came into the market, it is often cheaper to to fly YVR-TPE-HKG, and then on a separate ticket HKG-TPE on BR, than direct YVR-TPE...

thenoflyzone Mar 1, 2019 10:42 PM

AC investor day 2019 presentation yesterday.

https://www.aircanada.com/content/da...ay-Feb2019.pdf

Key highlights:

Continue to build 3 main hubs. International growth will focus on counter-seasonality, as evidenced by YUL-GRU, YVR-AKL and YYZ-UIO winter seasonal routes. Air Canada Rouge will be used as a growing tool for regional flying.

Future route opportunities:

YYZ-Africa mentioned, but no specific airports in Africa were listed. (JNB, ACC and LOS are the most likely.)

737 Max potential new routes
YEG-HNL
YYC-MCO
YVR-MCO
YHZ-FRA
YUL-NTE

A220 potential new routes (these were already known)

YUL-SEA
YYZ-SJC
YYZ-MTY
YVR-IAD
YYC-IAD
YYC-BOS
YVR-YHZ

Fleet wise, 1 more A333 to come online in 2021, bringing the total to 13. Rouge narrowbody fleet will grow to 39 by 2021, with 7 A320s and 4 more A321s coming online.

isaidso Mar 2, 2019 2:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 8490986)
That depends on the direction of travel and the jetstream.

Generally, westbound flights take the great-circle route to avoid the jetstream and fly the least distance.

Eastbound flights tend to head more southerly and take advantage of the jetstream to decrease time and fuel used.

Thanks very much. I learned something new today. :)


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