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casper Aug 3, 2020 4:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 8999478)
I would harbour a guess that AC is bluffing. They know that the A220 is a excellent fit in their fleet plan and really couldn’t make do without it.

I would agree. AC is playing games. The A220 is a low cost operator that would replace some of the smaller jets in the fleet. Given the depressed market for the next few year it is a better fit that most of their narrow body fleet.

The government should reward companies that are straight shooters and punish those who waste time with silly games.

whatnext Aug 3, 2020 5:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 8999422)
Both AC and WS have benefited from the wage subsidy program that is paying anywhere from 75& to 100% of their front line employees salaries until December 15th. That is without any strings attached requiring them to fly.

If AC was upfront asking for help I would say the government should try to help.

If AC is publicly suggesting canceling the A220 order (for jets made in Montreal) as a way of generating political pressure for a better deal from the government then they are playing games and should be treated as such.

The wage subsidy program helps the employees not the company. If the company is till having to pay medical and other benefits those surplus employees are a drag on its bottom line. As is the 25% top up to full salary. It would be different if a restart of normal travel was imminent but it isn't. But axing thousands of workers does the government no good either.

wave46 Aug 3, 2020 6:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 8999826)
The wage subsidy program helps the employees not the company. If the company is till having to pay medical and other benefits those surplus employees are a drag on its bottom line. As is the 25% top up to full salary. It would be different if a restart of normal travel was imminent but it isn't. But axing thousands of workers does the government no good either.

No, but Air Canada isn't keeping people on just to keep seats warm. They laid off a whole pile of employees. Westjet culled a bunch of employees too.

They're getting a 75% discount on the labour they currently do employ, which is not an insubstantial subsidy.

The US government had a different problem with large-scale airline employee layoff. Unemployed people there don't have health insurance, which tends to be bad during a pandemic. So, the CARES act provided a subsidy to keep people employed, but mandated a whole bunch of continued airline service. So, basically, planes were flying around empty because the Department of Transportation mandated that certain routes had to be maintained.

Djeffery Aug 3, 2020 7:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 8999913)
No, but Air Canada isn't keeping people on just to keep seats warm. They laid off a whole pile of employees. Westjet culled a bunch of employees too.

They're getting a 75% discount on the labour they currently do employ, which is not an insubstantial subsidy.

The US government had a different problem with large-scale airline employee layoff. Unemployed people there don't have health insurance, which tends to be bad during a pandemic. So, the CARES act provided a subsidy to keep people employed, but mandated a whole bunch of continued airline service. So, basically, planes were flying around empty because the Department of Transportation mandated that certain routes had to be maintained.

Wasn't the idea of the wage subsidy that you couldn't lay off people if you wanted to take advantage of that program? I thought AC originally laid off 16,000 or so people, then called them back to take advantage of the wage subsidy for all 35,000 or so employees.

casper Aug 4, 2020 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 8999966)
Wasn't the idea of the wage subsidy that you couldn't lay off people if you wanted to take advantage of that program? I thought AC originally laid off 16,000 or so people, then called them back to take advantage of the wage subsidy for all 35,000 or so employees.

AC can't claim the wage subsidy on the people on lay off. It can claim it on the people it still has on payroll. I believe the strategy was to issue lay off notices to those who are unlikely to come back in the next year or two and keep the staff that are likely to be recalled on payroll.

I think that is the best anyone can hope for. If your not likely to be recalled in the next year or two, why keep those ties and hope of being recalled. Better to know you need to start to looking for something else.

Dominion301 Aug 4, 2020 1:14 PM

YWG reports some pax stats.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7225496/c...rport-95-drop/

Quote:

Numbers from the WAA show the airport had fewer than 56,000 people go through its gates during the second quarter of 2020, down from 1.1 million over the same period of 2019.
Compared to YOW, 56,000 in Q2 is pretty good. YOW had just over 36,000 pax in the same timeframe. YWG is keeping with the theme of more pax at the western airports. It shows two things: 1) Flair at these airports and 2) for the few essential travellers, given the lack of rail and the vaster distances out west, it means flying is more of a necessity.

BenYOW Aug 4, 2020 3:39 PM

Porter Airlines has pushed its service resumption date to October 7 from August 30. Assuming operations return in October, this will be a shut-down of 200 days since the carrier's March 21 service termination.
Press Release

MountainView Aug 4, 2020 4:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenYOW (Post 9000672)
Porter Airlines has pushed its service resumption date to October 7 from August 30. Assuming operations return in October, this will be a shut-down of 200 days since the carrier's March 21 service termination.
Press Release

This is unfortunate but I don't know what else they could do.

Their main business is YUL/YOW-YTZ for business travelers (which there are almost none of right now) and VIA Rail or driving in a car by yourself is much safer right now for those that do need to travel.

YUL/YOW-YTZ-USA (and vice versa) was a huge market for Porter and the border is "closed"

Further, their YOW-Maritime operations (with connections from YTZ) is off the table due to the travel restrictions and 2-week isolation required for those entering the Maritimes.

I can see Porter restarting if the Maritimes no longer require the 2 week isolation when entering. Until then, its most likely not at all profitable to fly.

Dominion301 Aug 4, 2020 4:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainView (Post 9000709)
This is unfortunate but I don't know what else they could do.

Their main business is YUL/YOW-YTZ for business travelers (which there are almost none of right now) and VIA Rail or driving in a car by yourself is much safer right now for those that do need to travel.

YUL/YOW-YTZ-USA (and vice versa) was a huge market for Porter and the border is "closed"

Further, their YOW-Maritime operations (with connections from YTZ) is off the table due to the travel restrictions and 2-week isolation required for those entering the Maritimes.

I can see Porter restarting if the Maritimes no longer require the 2 week isolation when entering. Until then, its most likely not at all profitable to fly.

The irony is the perennial #3 carrier on YOW-YTO is now #1 (in terms of seat capacity - AC's still #1 in frequency)...although WS are cancelling 1 of their 4 daily 737s most days...so it's kinda' still AC.

hollywoodcory Aug 4, 2020 5:59 PM

Looks like AA is suspending YVR completely in September. They appear to be only operating the following in September (subject to change):

YYZ-CLT
YYZ-ORD
YYZ-PHL
YUL-PHL
YYC-DFW

United September:

YYC-DEN
YYC-ORD
YYZ-EWR
YYZ-ORD
YUL-ORD
YVR-SFO

hollywoodcory Aug 4, 2020 6:59 PM

Air Transat announced it's winter program. As already stated, all the international flights will be operated out east. The only Western Canada destination served appears to be YVR.

https://www.transat.com/en-CA/corpor...eleases/124324

samuelx88 Aug 4, 2020 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9000845)

United September:

YYC-DEN
YYC-ORD
YYZ-EWR
YYZ-ORD
YUL-ORD
YVR-SFO

You forgot ORD-YQB with United, which will start operating 3x weekly starting Thursday this week, and it will increase to daily in September

hollywoodcory Aug 5, 2020 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samuelx88 (Post 9001175)
You forgot ORD-YQB with United, which will start operating 3x weekly starting Thursday this week, and it will increase to daily in September

Thanks for catching that, I was sure I missed something.

TheGreatestX Aug 5, 2020 9:06 PM

AC starting to update their international routes for the fall, some planned resumptions:

Sept
YYZ-GRU
YYZ-CDG
YYC-FRA
YVR-DEL

Oct
YYZ-HKG
YYZ-NRT (thought they only flew to HND from YYZ)
YYZ-BOG
YYZ-SCL-EZE

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...html#/south-am

hollywoodcory Aug 5, 2020 9:35 PM

Ah, I see their teasing YYC-FRA for the 900th time. :haha:

As the actual schedule wasn't updated yet, I imagine YYZ-NRT will take over AC1/2 for the moment?

nname Aug 5, 2020 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9002185)
Ah, I see their teasing YYC-FRA for the 900th time. :haha:

As the actual schedule wasn't updated yet, I imagine YYZ-NRT will take over AC1/2 for the moment?

YYZ-NRT will be AC21/22. Reservation is currently open until Feb 28.

This might mean YUL-NRT may not be coming back before at least next spring? Unless slot restriction no longer apply during the pandemic.

thenoflyzone Aug 6, 2020 3:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9002274)
YYZ-NRT will be AC21/22. Reservation is currently open until Feb 28.

This might mean YUL-NRT may not be coming back before at least next spring? Unless slot restriction no longer apply during the pandemic.

So far NRT hasn't cancelled slot restrictions for W20 season.

https://www.iata.org/contentassets/4...20-level-3.pdf

That being said, whether they do or don't, I can't see AC resuming YUL-NRT this fall or winter season. Next spring would be a logical time for the route to resume.

thenoflyzone Aug 7, 2020 1:53 PM

Sunwing will return to the skies with a limited schedule in September.

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/to...ting-september

YYZ to CUN/CCC/VRA/PUJ/MBJ
YUL to CUN/CCC/VRA/PUJ

Dominion301 Aug 7, 2020 6:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9003844)
Sunwing will return to the skies with a limited schedule in September.

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/to...ting-september

YYZ to CUN/CCC/VRA/PUJ/MBJ
YUL to CUN/CCC/VRA/PUJ

I wonder what their winter schedule will look like? I'm guessing the gov't will permit out-and-back sun flights to outside of the big 4 given TS' schedule announcement earlier this week that includes YOW, YQB, YQM, YXU, YHZ and YHM or is these still subject to gov't approval?...especially since YQB is also supposed to have a weekly CDG.

hollywoodcory Aug 7, 2020 7:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9004216)
I wonder what their winter schedule will look like? I'm guessing the gov't will permit out-and-back sun flights to outside of the big 4 given TS' schedule announcement earlier this week that includes YOW, YQB, YQM, YXU, YHZ and YHM or is these still subject to gov't approval?...especially since YQB is also supposed to have a weekly CDG.

The government already allows international flights to Mexico/Caribbean & the US from any Canadian destination.

Only flights from Europe, Africa, Australia and Asia are required to arrive at YYZ, YUL, YVR and YYC.

As for YQB-CDG, TS probably thinks the gov't restrictions will be gone by then.


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