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ghYHZ Nov 10, 2017 4:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 7982178)
I think that Halifax would better spend its energies on flights to more 'realistic' destinations, such as Frankfurt or London-Gatwick

Condor already does Halifax-Frankfurt (& Munich) and with WestJet doing Halifax-Glasgow.....Gatwick wouldn't surprise me.

MonctonRad Nov 10, 2017 4:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 7982178)
Presuming they're talking about passenger flights (I don't think they are, but let's make that assumption anyway) I think that Halifax would better spend its energies on flights to more 'realistic' destinations, such as Frankfurt or London-Gatwick.

I listened to Premier McNeill on TV the other night. He is talking about passenger routing. He said he would be fine with even a once weekly flight, and sees it as a necessity for developing international business relationships beyond lobster. He ale feels it would be useful for Chinese university students attending Maritime universities.

wave46 Nov 10, 2017 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 7982201)
Condor already does Halifax-Frankfurt (& Munich) and with WestJet doing Halifax-Glasgow.....Gatwick wouldn't surprise me.

I stand corrected on that point, but my overall point still stands. Work on the North America and Europe options first, then worry about what might happen with China 40 years down the road.

FFX-ME Nov 10, 2017 5:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 7982207)
I stand corrected on that point, but my overall point still stands. Work on the North America and Europe options first, then worry about what might happen with China 40 years down the road.

With direct flights to Dublin, London, Paris, Frankfurt, Munich, and Reykjavik (and St-Pierre, lol)I'd say YHZ is incredibly well connected to Europe. Much better connected than most cities, especially for its size. I don't see how it could be better connected to Europe. I think it may even be better connected than Vancouver!

The North American service should be improved though. YHZ desperately needs a flight to Chicago and a non-seasonal flight to Vancouver.

I'd say they have a pretty good airport authority there in Halifax. It is ambitious and forward thinking. If only YOW's was the same.

bikegypsy Nov 10, 2017 5:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME (Post 7982225)
With direct flights to Dublin, London, Paris, Frankfurt, Munich, and Reykjavik (and St-Pierre, lol)I'd say YHZ is incredibly well connected to Europe. Much better connected than most cities, especially for its size. I don't see how it could be better connected to Europe. I think it may even be better connected than Vancouver!

The North American service should be improved though. YHZ desperately needs a flight to Chicago and a non-seasonal flight to Vancouver.

I'd say they have a pretty good airport authority there in Halifax. It is ambitious and forward thinking. If only YOW's was the same.

YHZ is not a quick ride away from YUL, YOW is. Halifax can be a true hub for the region, while nothing of the sort is possible in Ottawa - which is located right between the 2 largest airports in the country - simply because of geography.

FFX-ME Nov 10, 2017 5:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikegypsy (Post 7982247)
YHZ is not a quick ride away from YUL, YOW is. Halifax can be a true hub for the region, while nothing of the sort is possible in Ottawa - which is located right between the 2 largest airports in the country - simply because of geography.

Almost all cities are situated between teh two largest airports in the country (Toronto and Vancouver) but Ottawa is not one of them. I'm sure you means first and third largest airports though, lol.

In any case, the Maritime provinces as a whole have barely more people than Ottawa does so even if it is a regional hub it isn't a huge region. The big difference is that the airport authority there is doing a good job.

1overcosc Nov 10, 2017 7:15 PM

A bunch of YOW's potential market is lost to people driving to YUL and to a lesser extent YYZ. There is no comparable dynamic at YHZ.

ghYHZ Nov 10, 2017 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad (Post 7982206)
I listened to Premier McNeill on TV the other night. He is talking about passenger routing. He said he would be fine with even a once weekly flight, and sees it as a necessity for developing international business relationships beyond lobster. He ale feels it would be useful for Chinese university students attending Maritime universities.

25 years ago or so….developers were advertising in Germany and selling Nova Scotia and Cape Breton Island vacation properties. We now have nonstop flights on Condor 4 times weekly to Frankfurt and Munich.

Similarly there is now Chinese Investment in Vacation Properties along Nova Scotia’s Eastern Shore…..so I guess we’ll see what happens!

casper Nov 10, 2017 7:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 7982198)
The airlines use demand modeling. Certain flights are cheaper/more expensive based on demand or availability of seats. So, that Toronto-Frankfurt flight may have lots of open seats, whilst the Toronto-Paris might be close to capacity. Thus, you get weird pricing and routing, despite (logically) assuming that the fewest flights would be cheapest.

One of the things they've noticed is that one of the reliable ways to get people to pay more for a seat is to offer a direct flight. People will actually pay a premium for that.

AC's strategy regarding cheap flights from the US is to lure American customers away from the Big 3 airlines down there and improve loads on their overseas flights. That seems to be a one-way street, unfortunately for us in Canada the Big 3 don't seem to see Canada as much of a market to do the same.

I have generally found that flights going through to US to connect to Europe or Asia are cheaper than Canada direct. That said, it is a pain having to go through US customs. The US also has a host of extra taxes on international flights that can be substantial on a low cost flight.

plrh Nov 10, 2017 7:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 7982198)
The airlines use demand modeling. Certain flights are cheaper/more expensive based on demand or availability of seats. So, that Toronto-Frankfurt flight may have lots of open seats, whilst the Toronto-Paris might be close to capacity. Thus, you get weird pricing and routing, despite (logically) assuming that the fewest flights would be cheapest.

One of the things they've noticed is that one of the reliable ways to get people to pay more for a seat is to offer a direct flight. People will actually pay a premium for that.

AC's strategy regarding cheap flights from the US is to lure American customers away from the Big 3 airlines down there and improve loads on their overseas flights. That seems to be a one-way street, unfortunately for us in Canada the Big 3 don't seem to see Canada as much of a market to do the same.

I know from Winnipeg, it's always cheaper to fly through Toronto or Calgary than to fly to Toronto or Calgary. The reason why we are lucky to have direct flights to very few cities is because it keeps airfares low. :rolleyes:

wave46 Nov 10, 2017 8:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plrh (Post 7982421)
I know from Winnipeg, it's always cheaper to fly through Toronto or Calgary than to fly to Toronto or Calgary. The reason why we are lucky to have direct flights to very few cities is because it keeps airfares low. :rolleyes:

I hear you. I don't live in the Toronto area, so I fly into Pearson. Should I end my journey there, I'll pay up the wazoo for a relatively short flight. However, if I'm connecting onward, the cost of my flight to Pearson is dramatically reduced. We have an airline duopoly in this country. It sucks from a competition point of view.

wave46 Nov 10, 2017 8:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 7982409)
I have generally found that flights going through to US to connect to Europe or Asia are cheaper than Canada direct. That said, it is a pain having to go through US customs. The US also has a host of extra taxes on international flights that can be substantial on a low cost flight.

Like I said, people will pay a premium for a direct flight. I'd imagine that a savvy shopper could score a pretty sweet deal if they didn't mind taking the scenic route.

I lump myself in with the masses though. I generally want to get somewhere with minimum fuss and without sitting in airports or worrying about making a connection. That's worth something (to me at least).

I'd imagine that places like Winnipeg might actually be better served by transiting via the US as opposed to Canada.

wave46 Nov 10, 2017 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME (Post 7982225)
With direct flights to Dublin, London, Paris, Frankfurt, Munich, and Reykjavik (and St-Pierre, lol)I'd say YHZ is incredibly well connected to Europe. Much better connected than most cities, especially for its size. I don't see how it could be better connected to Europe. I think it may even be better connected than Vancouver!

The North American service should be improved though. YHZ desperately needs a flight to Chicago and a non-seasonal flight to Vancouver.

I'd say they have a pretty good airport authority there in Halifax. It is ambitious and forward thinking. If only YOW's was the same.

I was referring to more year round service as opposed to charter/leisure airlines, but your point is taken.

Acajack Nov 10, 2017 8:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 7982399)
A bunch of YOW's potential market is lost to people driving to YUL and to a lesser extent YYZ. There is no comparable dynamic at YHZ.

Yeah I'd say it's a bit unfair to criticize YOW for this situation. It also has Syracuse three hours away and now Ogdensburg NY (45 minutes from Ottawa's southern suburbia) is ramping up flights too.

YOW is actually a very well managed airport.

craneSpotter Nov 10, 2017 9:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 7981919)
Agree.....I was replying to craneSpotter's post that YHZ is just a domestic hub.

I should have said 'mostly' a domestic hub. YHZ is the 'hub' for Atlantic Canada.

I can't find the breakdown for YHZ domestic/transborder/international pax numbers. My assumption was that YHZ was ~75% domestic traffic, then transborder - with some seasonal, non-daily international (leisure) charters/sun flights sprinkled in.

begratto Nov 10, 2017 9:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 7982485)
Yeah I'd say it's a bit unfair to criticize YOW for this situation. It also has Syracuse three hours away and now Ogdensburg NY (45 minutes from Ottawa's southern suburbia) is ramping up flights too.

YOW is actually a very well managed airport.

I wonder why Ottawa people systematically use Syracuse airport as their US airport, when it takes the same time to go to Plattsburgh (one of the two US airports - the other being Burlington VT - used by Montrealers).

Google Maps says it takes a bit less than 3 hours in both cases.

ghYHZ Nov 10, 2017 9:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 7982508)
I should have said 'mostly' a domestic hub. YHZ is the 'hub' for Atlantic Canada...............with some seasonal, non-daily international (leisure) charters/sun flights sprinkled in.

That Air Canada '767 to Heathrow might not be daily in winter.....but it's there year 'round. I might have to wait a day but I'm not backhauling through YYZ only to overfly the Maritimes again 6 hrs later.

Acajack Nov 10, 2017 9:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begratto (Post 7982513)
I wonder why Ottawa people systematically use Syracuse airport as their US airport, when it takes the same time to go to Plattsburgh (one of the two US airports - the other being Burlington VT - used by Montrealers).

Google Maps says it takes a bit less than 3 hours in both cases.

Concerns about traffic maybe? I've never flown from Plattsburgh but I have flown from Syracuse.

I guess there is no longer that issue now that they can take the A-30 to bypass traffic on the island.

Syracuse of course is also a bigger airport with more destinations. Being a metro of 400-500k I think.

ghYHZ Nov 10, 2017 9:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 7982535)
That Air Canada '767 to Heathrow might not be daily in winter.....but it's there year 'round. I might have to wait a day but I'm not backhauling through YYZ only to overfly the Maritimes again 6 hrs later.

And those in Atlantic Canada can also include services from St. John's, Newfoundland across the pond without having to connect in YUL or YYZ.

Air Canada goes daily in summer from YYT to Heathrow on an A319....but will switch to a new '737 MAX next May. Winter service is a couple of flights a week on a '767.

Then there are Westjet's two daily flights on '737s from St John's to Dublin and also Gatwick about 6 months of the year.

craneSpotter Nov 11, 2017 2:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 7982544)
And those in Atlantic Canada can also include services from St. John's, Newfoundland across the pond without having to connect in YUL or YYZ.

Air Canada goes daily in summer from YYT to Heathrow on an A319....but will switch to a new '737 MAX next May. Winter service is a couple of flights a week on a '767.

Then there are Westjet's two daily flights on '737s from St John's to Dublin and also Gatwick about 6 months of the year.

So in context to YHZ - the existence of international services from YYT would seem to weaken the case of YHZ being the 'international' hub for Atlantic Canada.

These markets must be mostly O&D, not much for connecting PAX, hence the seasonal point-point service?

Maybe YYT will be the first in the region to get the flight to Asia!


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