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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

thewave46 Dec 22, 2022 1:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9822131)
YOW rarely has major winter issues except during freezing rain or a flash freeze. Even last week's 38 cm snowstorm was pretty easy-peasy...also helps the airport is still down 2 million pax vs 2019. Most of the dozen cancellations were due to YYZ & YTZ and not YOW itself.

Smaller airports that are used to more extreme weather are just much more pleasant overall. Heck, smaller airports are just nicer. They may lack the sheer number of flights, but if one can avoid a big hub, why not?

Hiccups don't turn into cascading disasters. Weather is accepted as more an operational circumstance rather than an anomaly that precedes a meltdown.

Most airports in Canada are generally pretty good and perform well under harsh conditions relative to world peers - I'm trying to think of a country that gets the conditions we do and I mostly think of US airports - O'Hare, Minneapolis, Denver, New York. O'Hare and JFK have had some pretty spectacular messes.

Pearson gets a bad rap because it's just such a big hub and gets more moderate climate on average, so it just can't keep up when it does get hit hard.

Vancouver is probably the least prepared, but that's no excuse. It's Canada. If you can't clear taxiways, you close the damned airport and send planes to diversion airports.

Calfan12 Dec 22, 2022 2:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9822275)
Smaller airports that are used to more extreme weather are just much more pleasant overall. Heck, smaller airports are just nicer. They may lack the sheer number of flights, but if one can avoid a big hub, why not?

Hiccups don't turn into cascading disasters. Weather is accepted as more an operational circumstance rather than an anomaly that precedes a meltdown.

Most airports in Canada are generally pretty good and perform well under harsh conditions relative to world peers - I'm trying to think of a country that gets the conditions we do and I mostly think of US airports - O'Hare, Minneapolis, Denver, New York. O'Hare and JFK have had some pretty spectacular messes.

Pearson gets a bad rap because it's just such a big hub and gets more moderate climate on average, so it just can't keep up when it does get hit hard.

Vancouver is probably the least prepared, but that's no excuse. It's Canada. If you can't clear taxiways, you close the damned airport and send planes to diversion airports.

Good points & I also see WestJet subbing in a Boeing 787 on the Calgary YYC -Vancouver YVR - YYC route to (clear the backlog of WestJet passengers).

manny_santos Dec 22, 2022 4:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9822275)
Smaller airports that are used to more extreme weather are just much more pleasant overall. Heck, smaller airports are just nicer. They may lack the sheer number of flights, but if one can avoid a big hub, why not?

Hiccups don't turn into cascading disasters. Weather is accepted as more an operational circumstance rather than an anomaly that precedes a meltdown.

Most airports in Canada are generally pretty good and perform well under harsh conditions relative to world peers - I'm trying to think of a country that gets the conditions we do and I mostly think of US airports - O'Hare, Minneapolis, Denver, New York. O'Hare and JFK have had some pretty spectacular messes.

Pearson gets a bad rap because it's just such a big hub and gets more moderate climate on average, so it just can't keep up when it does get hit hard.

Vancouver is probably the least prepared, but that's no excuse. It's Canada. If you can't clear taxiways, you close the damned airport and send planes to diversion airports.

From what I’ve heard in local media, part of what made things so bad for YVR was that the amount of snow that fell was more than double what was forecast - so the airport was unprepared.

However they should have been prepared for a worst case scenario. If the forecast calls for 15 cm, prepare for 30.

I really hope Swoop brings back the Abbotsford-London direct flights next year. I really liked flying from one small airport to another. At least Flair will have YVR-YXU next year, which I’d prefer over YXX-YYZ.

casper Dec 22, 2022 5:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9822275)
Smaller airports that are used to more extreme weather are just much more pleasant overall. Heck, smaller airports are just nicer. They may lack the sheer number of flights, but if one can avoid a big hub, why not?

Hiccups don't turn into cascading disasters. Weather is accepted as more an operational circumstance rather than an anomaly that precedes a meltdown.

Most airports in Canada are generally pretty good and perform well under harsh conditions relative to world peers - I'm trying to think of a country that gets the conditions we do and I mostly think of US airports - O'Hare, Minneapolis, Denver, New York. O'Hare and JFK have had some pretty spectacular messes.

Pearson gets a bad rap because it's just such a big hub and gets more moderate climate on average, so it just can't keep up when it does get hit hard.

Vancouver is probably the least prepared, but that's no excuse. It's Canada. If you can't clear taxiways, you close the damned airport and send planes to diversion airports.

Part of the problem with Vancouver is the usual diversion airports were having their own issues. Abbotsford and Victoria were not in great shape. Seattle had similar problems to Vancouver. That leaves Calgary.

YYCguys Dec 22, 2022 9:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9822310)
Good points & I also see WestJet subbing in a Boeing 787 on the Calgary YYC -Vancouver YVR - YYC route to (clear the backlog of WestJet passengers).

I was crewing those flights yesterday. It was a long day for guests and crew alike. The guests were very calm and understanding! If any of those guests are on this forum, I would like to say a very warm thank you for putting up with all the ground delays and being so lovely to the rest of the crew and I. We have an internal kudos/recognition procedure, but I wish there was an external one. Because the last few days couldn’t have been much fun at all for all of you guests, and I really appreciated how you were so calm and understanding and even cheered/clapped for us when we got to the gate in YYC! It really made my day! :cheers: Happy Holidays to everyone, where ever you may be!

Calfan12 Dec 22, 2022 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 9822897)
I was crewing those flights yesterday. It was a long day for guests and crew alike. The guests were very calm and understanding! If any of those guests are on this forum, I would like to say a very warm thank you for putting up with all the ground delays and being so lovely to the rest of the crew and I. We have an internal kudos/recognition procedure, but I wish there was an external one. Because the last few days couldn’t have been much fun at all for all of you guests, and I really appreciated how you were so calm and understanding and even cheered/clapped for us when we got to the gate in YYC! It really made my day! :cheers: Happy Holidays to everyone, where ever you may be!

That’s great! You have good Christmas holidays 2022 also. Yes Happy holidays & wish everyone a happy new year 2023.

Calfan12 Dec 22, 2022 10:26 PM

PORTER ADDS TORONTO PEARSON – CALGARY / HALIFAX SERVICE FROM FEB 2023

Porter Airlines in starting late-February 2023 is expanding service between Toronto and Halifax, as the airline begins new service to/from Toronto Pearson, in addition to existing Toronto City.

From 23FEB23, the airline will begin Toronto Pearson – Halifax service once a day with Embraer E195-E2, increasing to 2 daily from 28FEB23. Schedule below is effective 26MAR23.

PD201 YYZ0640 – 0907YHZ 295 D
PD209 YYZ2230 – 0137+1YHZ 295 D

PD200 YHZ0715 – 0855YYZ 295 D
PD204 YHZ1115 – 1255YYZ 295 D

Previously not covered on AeroRoutes, the airline will also introduce Toronto Pearson – Calgary service starting 22FEB23, with 2 daily flights. Schedule below is effective 01MAY23.

PD353 YYZ1015 – 1229YYC 295 D
PD357 YYZ1340 – 1554YYC 295 D

PD350 YYC0055 – 0645YYZ 295 D
PD360 YYC1725 – 2315YYZ 295 D

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221222-pdfeb23yycyhz

Dominion301 Dec 22, 2022 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9822962)
PORTER ADDS TORONTO PEARSON – CALGARY / HALIFAX SERVICE FROM FEB 2023

Porter Airlines in starting late-February 2023 is expanding service between Toronto and Halifax, as the airline begins new service to/from Toronto Pearson, in addition to existing Toronto City.

From 23FEB23, the airline will begin Toronto Pearson – Halifax service once a day with Embraer E195-E2, increasing to 2 daily from 28FEB23. Schedule below is effective 26MAR23.

PD201 YYZ0640 – 0907YHZ 295 D
PD209 YYZ2230 – 0137+1YHZ 295 D

PD200 YHZ0715 – 0855YYZ 295 D
PD204 YHZ1115 – 1255YYZ 295 D

Previously not covered on AeroRoutes, the airline will also introduce Toronto Pearson – Calgary service starting 22FEB23, with 2 daily flights. Schedule below is effective 01MAY23.

PD353 YYZ1015 – 1229YYC 295 D
PD357 YYZ1340 – 1554YYC 295 D

PD350 YYC0055 – 0645YYZ 295 D
PD360 YYC1725 – 2315YYZ 295 D

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221222-pdfeb23yycyhz

PD’s first ever redeye.

whatnext Dec 23, 2022 3:30 AM

The Porter experiment is bound to fail. Canadians have shown time and time again they will choose the cheapest ticket every time over “better service”. Apparently in the legal proceedings the operators of YTZ initiated against Porter it was revealed the airline hadn’t made an operating profit in 15 years!

casper Dec 23, 2022 3:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9823161)
The Porter experiment is bound to fail. Canadians have shown time and time again they will choose the cheapest ticket every time over “better service”. Apparently in the legal proceedings the operators of YTZ initiated against Porter it was revealed the airline hadn’t made an operating profit in 15 years!

Not making a profit in 15 years is problematic.

That said, what they have going for them is they actually have a network.

The ULCC are just point to point and those flights will be blocked on most business oriented booking portals.

Paper Boy Dec 23, 2022 5:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9823161)
The Porter experiment is bound to fail. Canadians have shown time and time again they will choose the cheapest ticket every time over “better service”. Apparently in the legal proceedings the operators of YTZ initiated against Porter it was revealed the airline hadn’t made an operating profit in 15 years!

And then complain about the service

casper Dec 23, 2022 6:26 AM

Friday is suppose to be nasty. Provincial government has warnings out saying highway traffic should be restricted to emergency only travel.

I ventured out on the road in Victoria this afternoon. It is still a mess. Lots of snow on the roads. The two lane roads I was on were all down to one lane in each direction with the outside lanes taken up by snow/slush. With more snow tomorrow then a dump of rain this is not going to be fun tomorrow.

Looks like all flights in/out of Victoria (YYJ) are cancelled until 1:00 pm.

Vancouver is doing better. The early morning flights appear to be going but after about 7:45 it is cancellations on many but not all of the Air Canada and WestJet flights. Things start to look much better in the afternoon.

What is shocking is all the Flair flights are showing as on schedule. However given their normal track record perhaps that is to be expected.

nname Dec 23, 2022 6:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9823254)
What is shocking is all the Flair flights are showing as on schedule. However given their normal track record perhaps that is to be expected.

Looking at FR24 during the past few days, Flair seems to be able to get more flights out when AC and WS both cancelled theirs. For instance, they got both afternoon PVR and SJD out, just that they are very very delayed (return flight arrived at YVR past 3am). Made me wonder.. their crew wouldn't time out due to the delay? As far as I know, it was the same crew who did the morning round-trip to Alberta.

The evening flight to YYC or YEG are most likely to get cancelled if there are severe delay. Looks like a 1am departure to YYC and 4am departure to YVR is the most they would do :D

casper Dec 23, 2022 7:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9823261)
Looking at FR24 during the past few days, Flair seems to be able to get more flights out when AC and WS both cancelled theirs. For instance, they got both afternoon PVR and SJD out, just that they are very very delayed (return flight arrived at YVR past 3am). Made me wonder.. their crew wouldn't time out due to the delay? As far as I know, it was the same crew who did the morning round-trip to Alberta.

The evening flight to YYC or YEG are most likely to get cancelled if there are severe delay. Looks like a 1am departure to YYC and 4am departure to YVR is the most they would do :D

Maybe it comes down to the different business model.

I get the impression WestJet and Air Canada are more likely to cancel if a flight is becoming very late and rebook people onto other flights or connecting flights.

Flair is more likely to stick to the scheduled flights even if means everything running hours behind time.

SpongeG Dec 23, 2022 8:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny_santos (Post 9822360)
From what I’ve heard in local media, part of what made things so bad for YVR was that the amount of snow that fell was more than double what was forecast - so the airport was unprepared.

However they should have been prepared for a worst case scenario. If the forecast calls for 15 cm, prepare for 30.

I really hope Swoop brings back the Abbotsford-London direct flights next year. I really liked flying from one small airport to another. At least Flair will have YVR-YXU next year, which I’d prefer over YXX-YYZ.

I also heard some of the problems were regulations. Certain things could not get done or happen because of rules and such. The problems now are really because of what is now happening in the USA and the rest of Canada. 100's of flights in the states are being cancelled because of the weather.

On BBC radio 2 today in their traffic report they mentioned to people there if they are trying to fly to Canada or North America to check ahead cause many flights have been cancelled.

thenoflyzone Dec 23, 2022 5:23 PM

Transport Minister met with the CEO and President of Emirates Airlines.

https://twitter.com/OmarAlghabra/sta...28109949259776

Let’s see if anything develops from this.

whatnext Dec 23, 2022 5:28 PM

So Westjet has apparently cancelling its flights to BC, ON and parts of WC today. Where exactly are they flying? Calgary to Regina?:haha:

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6696238

manny_santos Dec 23, 2022 5:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9823491)
So Westjet has apparently cancelling its flights to BC, ON and parts of WC today. Where exactly are they flying? Calgary to Regina?:haha:

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6696238

Looks like most of the remaining WestJet flights are from Calgary to the Southern US (Los Angeles, San Diego, Orlando), Mexico, and to the likes of Regina, Saskatoon, Edmonton, Fort McMurray and Yellowknife. Some flights into parts of BC are still on the schedule too, including Kelowna and Prince George.

msmariner Dec 23, 2022 5:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9823491)
So Westjet has apparently cancelling its flights to BC, ON and parts of WC today. Where exactly are they flying? Calgary to Regina?:haha:

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6696238

It’s kinda of a misleading story. Is it only WestJet cancelling flights or the other airlines. I’m sure it’s all if them.

manny_santos Dec 23, 2022 6:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msmariner (Post 9823505)
It’s kinda of a misleading story. Is it only WestJet cancelling flights or the other airlines. I’m sure it’s all if them.

Air Canada still has scheduled flights from Edmonton and Calgary to Vancouver and Toronto today that have not been cancelled. Flair also has some flights for today that are still active.

Looking at FlightRadar24, an Air Canada flight to Phoenix just took off from Vancouver, and an AC flight from Tokyo just landed a few minutes ago. There's also an AC flight from Kelowna to Vancouver that is in the air right now.


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