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Dominion301 Oct 14, 2021 3:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9420952)
Yeah, I don't see the hassle of serving SEA - YVR traffic even worth the bother of the fifth-freedom flight given the distance involved.

It's about 250km by road. There are any number of better options for travellers (road/rail) and enough existing air competition to make it extremely marginal from a business case point of view.

According to this article, SQ will have 5th freedom rights: https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vanc...-route-yvr-sin

However, as of now, you cannot book a YVR-SEA flight on SQ’s website.

thenoflyzone Oct 14, 2021 4:16 AM

SQ confirmed on Instagram they will not sell seats on YVR-SEA-YVR.

Dailyhive is far from a credible source for such things.

casper Oct 14, 2021 5:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9423354)
SQ confirmed on Instagram they will not sell seats on YVR-SEA-YVR.

Dailyhive is far from a credible source for such things.

More likely.SQ has the rights they have just decided it’s not worth the effort.

If you look at most of the agreements Canada has signed fifth freedom is fairly common.

hollywoodcory Oct 14, 2021 1:05 PM

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2021...-South-America

AC's going to serve EZE via GRU instead of SCL. Also YUL-GRU return is similarly timed to YYZ instead of a daytime return.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2021...East-and-India

Quote:

"Our schedule will enable convenient onward travel through our Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal and Calgary hubs to and from our global destinations. Start planning ahead and book with confidence. We are sincerely looking forward to welcoming you onboard."
Do my eyes deceive me or did they actually refer to YYC as a hub in a international service presser. I don't remember the last time they used 'Calgary' and 'hub' in the same sentence. :haha:

thenoflyzone Oct 14, 2021 2:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9423480)

AC's going to serve EZE via GRU instead of SCL. Also YUL-GRU return is similarly timed to YYZ instead of a daytime return.

That daytime return was awful for connections. The long layover in GRU is needed to pick up as many passengers as they can, and to optimize connections in YYZ/YUL.

Great to see YUL-GRU restarting, year round no less. Seems the EZE tag will originate with the flight number and frame from YUL as well.

YUL-DEL will be year round as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9423480)
Do my eyes deceive me or did they actually refer to YYC as a hub in a international service presser. I don't remember the last time they used 'Calgary' and 'hub' in the same sentence. :haha:

Me neither. Probably a few years ago now.

Alexcaban Oct 14, 2021 6:47 PM

Looks like YUL-ALG didn't make the cut.

Dominion301 Oct 14, 2021 9:42 PM

On the heels of Flair, YKF are planning to double the size of their terminal (which means it will still be small, but now a more reasonable size to handle multiple 737s a day): https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...ghts-1.6211146

Quote:

Up to a million passengers per year are expected to travel through the airport by 2023, up from 70,000 a year in 2019, according to the region's projections.
That would mean Flair will triple in size at YKF and/or they attract another airline. That would make them bigger than YHM. Seems lofty.

Calfan12 Oct 15, 2021 9:46 AM

British Airways (BA) on November 12, 2021 will begin using the Airbus A350-1000 between Vancouver YVR & London Heathrow (LHR) 1 daily & it’s the 1st A350-1000 direct flights✈️for Western Canada.

Innsertnamehere Oct 15, 2021 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9424128)
On the heels of Flair, YKF are planning to double the size of their terminal (which means it will still be small, but now a more reasonable size to handle multiple 737s a day): https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...ghts-1.6211146



That would mean Flair will triple in size at YKF and/or they attract another airline. That would make them bigger than YHM. Seems lofty.

YHM was almost at a million in 2019 IIRC and more than likely would have been well above it in 2020 if not for the pandemic. I imagine it’ll continue to outpace YKF, if even only slightly.

casper Oct 15, 2021 1:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9424128)
On the heels of Flair, YKF are planning to double the size of their terminal (which means it will still be small, but now a more reasonable size to handle multiple 737s a day): https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...ghts-1.6211146



That would mean Flair will triple in size at YKF and/or they attract another airline. That would make them bigger than YHM. Seems lofty.

They also had at some point WestJet service to Calgary and Sunwing to sun destinations. Flair is not the only game in town at YKF.

On and off over the years they have had smaller regional aircraft doing runs to Ottawa mostly supporting the tech sector. That has usually been a point to point service from one of the independent regionals.

Dominion301 Oct 15, 2021 6:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9424612)
They also had at some point WestJet service to Calgary and Sunwing to sun destinations. Flair is not the only game in town at YKF.

On and off over the years they have had smaller regional aircraft doing runs to Ottawa mostly supporting the tech sector. That has usually been a point to point service from one of the independent regionals.

2019's 70k pax = WS & WG

Yeah when biz traffic returns, a YOW-YKF route would make a lot of sense. I know the reincarnation of Air Georgian have stipulated they want to do so on CRJs and or DH8s. It could also be a target for a daily Flair flight to connect two bases.

Dominion301 Oct 15, 2021 6:18 PM

YOW's September pax stats:

Sector / Sep-20 / Sep-21 / % Change
Dom: 44,068 / 172,778 / +292.1%
TB: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 44,068 / 172,778 / +292.1%

Sector / YTD 2020 / YTD 2021 / % Change
Dom: 917,080 / 658,957 / -28.1%
TB: 163,093 / 0 / -100.0%
Int'l: 168,382 / 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 1,248,555 / 658,957 / -47.2% - Will need to average 113,681 pax/month in Q4 to hit 1 million in 2021 - will almost certainly happen. Will need to average 234,852 pax/month in Q4 to surpass 2020's total - not likely even with the vaccine passport.

The meaningful indicator these days
Month-Over-Month Change
Sector Aug-21 / Sep-21 / % Change
Dom: 207,745 / 172,778 / -16.8%
TB: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 207,745 / 172,778 / -16.8%
Avg/Day: 6,701 / 5,759 / -14.1%

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2019
Dom: 773,914 / -80.6%
TB: 0 / -100.0%
Int'l: 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 773,914 / -84.8%

hehehe Oct 15, 2021 8:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9424612)
They also had at some point WestJet service to Calgary and Sunwing to sun destinations. Flair is not the only game in town at YKF.

On and off over the years they have had smaller regional aircraft doing runs to Ottawa mostly supporting the tech sector. That has usually been a point to point service from one of the independent regionals.

WS YKF-YYC still operates :)

casper Oct 16, 2021 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9424881)
2019's 70k pax = WS & WG

Yeah when biz traffic returns, a YOW-YKF route would make a lot of sense. I know the reincarnation of Air Georgian have stipulated they want to do so on CRJs and or DH8s. It could also be a target for a daily Flair flight to connect two bases.

In the 90s there was a division of Pem-Air that did the route with a King Air.

Pem-Air bread and butter route was YTA-YYZ in partnership with Canadian and CP. A route that has yet to come return. I did in many times in 90s. That one is long gone never to return.

nname Oct 16, 2021 2:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9423534)
That daytime return was awful for connections. The long layover in GRU is needed to pick up as many passengers as they can, and to optimize connections in YYZ/YUL.

Great to see YUL-GRU restarting, year round no less. Seems the EZE tag will originate with the flight number and frame from YUL as well.

Not really sure what AC's long term plan is...

For the two weeks for Dec-Jan 2022
Code:

AC 90        77W        D        YYZ - GRU
AC 92        -        -       
AC 94        333        2357        YYZ - BOG
AC 96        789        1357        YUL - GRU - EZE
AC 98        333        146        YUL - BOG

Then for the rest of Jan 2022 till March:
Code:

AC 90        789        D        YYZ - GRU
AC 92        789        257        YYZ - SCL
AC 94        333        2357        YYZ - BOG
AC 96        788        357        YUL - GRU - EZE
AC 98        333        146        YUL - BOG

Then the summer 2022 schedule:
Code:

AC 90        77W        D        YYZ - GRU - EZE
AC 92        789        1357        YYZ - SCL
AC 94        788        1357        YYZ - BOG
AC 96        789        357        YUL - GRU
AC 98        788        246        YUL - BOG

So EZE is winter seasonal from YUL and summer seasonal from YYZ? They weren't quite sure what to do with South America yet?

[EDIT] Checked the booking site, so only 4 of the 7 weekly flight from YYZ during the summer will continue to EZE. The other ones, along with the 3 flights from YUL, will remain at GRU.

thenoflyzone Oct 16, 2021 2:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9425265)
Not really sure what AC's long term plan is...


So EZE is winter seasonal from YUL and summer seasonal from YYZ? They weren't quite sure what to do with South America yet?

[EDIT] Checked the booking site, so only 4 of the 7 weekly flight from YYZ during the summer will continue to EZE. The other ones, along with the 3 flights from YUL, will remain at GRU.

Maybe the S22 plans aren't finalized yet. Either way, it doesn't really matter where the EZE tag originates.

The goal is the same. Use both YYZ and YUL flights coming into GRU to feed your onward tag to EZE.

AC has always struggled with EZE. They tried going non stop a few years ago, it didn't work, so they reverted back to a one stop via SCL. This seems like another attempt at making the route work. Leveraging feed from both your east coast hubs might do the trick. Similar to what they are doing with MXP. That's something they couldn't do via a single flight from YYZ to SCL.

Dominion301 Oct 16, 2021 3:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9425216)
In the 90s there was a division of Pem-Air that did the route with a King Air.

Pem-Air bread and butter route was YTA-YYZ in partnership with Canadian and CP. A route that has yet to come return. I did in many times in 90s. That one is long gone never to return.

Pem-Air's YOW-YKF route was branded as Trillium Air and operated with a J31. 2x on weekdays and 1x on Sundays. After they shut down, Alberta-based QuikAir replicated the same schedule also with J31s...until they shut down. The route was routinely 'full' but was usually weight restricted to only 15 pax. QuikAir's bread & butter was YXD to YYC when YXD was still permitted to handle flights with up to 10 pax seats. As I recall, the huge oil price pike in 2008 did them in.

Calfan12 Oct 16, 2021 5:38 PM

WestJet possibly might add direct flights✈️ between Calgary & Thunder Bay again at some point? Previously it was operated during the Summer.

In the CBC article mention,the airline is looking into it.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thund...tjet-1.6170207

JakeLRS Oct 16, 2021 6:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere (Post 9424522)
YHM was almost at a million in 2019 IIRC and more than likely would have been well above it in 2020 if not for the pandemic. I imagine it’ll continue to outpace YKF, if even only slightly.

Westjet has been starting to neglect YHM again with the main carrier and through Swoop.

Here is an example of the YYC route with fares in November:

YHM-YYC: 3x weekly | Cheapest fare: $275
YKF-YYC: 5x weekly | Cheapest fare: $95
YYZ-YYC: Several Daily | Cheapest fare: $115

Westjet has such a monopoly at YHM that they can essentially charge whatever they want on the YYC route. I've been a victim of travelling to YKF instead because of the cheaper fares (I used flair instead).

In regards to Swoop, they have been more focused on providing YYZ with more routes and frequencies with YHM only getting what's leftover. I mean fair enough, it's a busier airport. But YHM does have demand for these routes.

Maybe Swoop will make a comeback next summer at YHM; they were going to offer flights to St. Johns, Moncton, Charlottetown before the pandemic. They were also going to offer Sun routes year-round such as Las Vegas, Cancun, Montego Bay, and Florida. But assuming the luck of YHM, they'll all go to YYZ instead.

hehehe Oct 16, 2021 8:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9425537)
Westjet has been starting to neglect YHM again with the main carrier and through Swoop.

Here is an example of the YYC route with fares in November:

YHM-YYC: 3x weekly | Cheapest fare: $275
YKF-YYC: 5x weekly | Cheapest fare: $95
YYZ-YYC: Several Daily | Cheapest fare: $115

Westjet has such a monopoly at YHM that they can essentially charge whatever they want on the YYC route. I've been a victim of travelling to YKF instead because of the cheaper fares (I used flair instead).

In regards to Swoop, they have been more focused on providing YYZ with more routes and frequencies with YHM only getting what's leftover. I mean fair enough, it's a busier airport. But YHM does have demand for these routes.

Maybe Swoop will make a comeback next summer at YHM; they were going to offer flights to St. Johns, Moncton, Charlottetown before the pandemic. They were also going to offer Sun routes year-round such as Las Vegas, Cancun, Montego Bay, and Florida. But assuming the luck of YHM, they'll all go to YYZ instead.

It's interesting. WS originally had YHM as their eastern base and all but abandoned it for YYZ (except the YYC route). Now again for WO YHM was supposed to be the eastern base but now they're moving towards YYZ once again.

nname Oct 16, 2021 8:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9425592)
It's interesting. WS originally had YHM as their eastern base and all but abandoned it for YYZ (except the YYC route). Now again for WO YHM was supposed to be the eastern base but now they're moving towards YYZ once again.

They kicked Flair out of YHM, so WO's job is done there. ;)

WhipperSnapper Oct 17, 2021 1:26 AM

Pearson in Toronto is an inconvenience for millions who live there. Hamilton would be much much worse. I'm not at all surprised both airlines grab whatever they can get at Pearson.

casper Oct 17, 2021 4:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9425592)
It's interesting. WS originally had YHM as their eastern base and all but abandoned it for YYZ (except the YYC route). Now again for WO YHM was supposed to be the eastern base but now they're moving towards YYZ once again.

At the time WS moved from YHM to YYZ there were stories and court cases about a WS gaining access to info on the loads of AC out of YYZ and that it was no brainer to move and not to return for a decade. Those dynamics have likely not changed.

Calfan12 Oct 17, 2021 3:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9425837)
At the time WS moved from YHM to YYZ there were stories and court cases about a WS gaining access to info on the loads of AC out of YYZ and that it was no brainer to move and not to return for a decade. Those dynamics have likely not changed.

Not too surprising. Passengers loads for Domestic,International & US flights✈️ in Canada are busier & loads are better, more profitable etc, at Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal & Calgary Airports as Most of new airlines routes have been added in these 4 cities.

Calfan12 Oct 17, 2021 3:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9425837)
At the time WS moved from YHM to YYZ there were stories and court cases about a WS gaining access to info on the loads of AC out of YYZ and that it was no brainer to move and not to return for a decade. Those dynamics have likely not changed.

Also Porter Airlines has plans to expand into Western Canada, with their new Embraer E195-E2 planes ✈️ eventually & with Vancouver YVR and Calgary YYC likely high on their list 1st due to its more profitable & more passengers demand from those 2 cities in the West✅!

hehehe Oct 17, 2021 5:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9425934)
Also Porter Airlines has plans to expand into Western Canada, with their new Embraer E195-E2 planes ✈️ eventually & with Vancouver YVR and Calgary YYC likely high on their list 1st due to its more profitable & more passengers demand from those 2 cities in the West✅!

I wonder if PD will be successful with this new venture.

casper Oct 17, 2021 6:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9425980)
I wonder if PD will be successful with this new venture.

Do we know if they will be using Montreal or Ottawa as their base for the those flights.

whatnext Oct 17, 2021 7:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9425934)
Also Porter Airlines has plans to expand into Western Canada, with their new Embraer E195-E2 planes ✈️ eventually & with Vancouver YVR and Calgary YYC likely high on their list 1st due to its more profitable & more passengers demand from those 2 cities in the West✅!

Who knew they were in such a rush to blow the wad of cash they got for selling YTZ and their sweetheart deal. Are the Deluces harbouring fantasies of their standard gambit of offloading their money pit to AC?

hehehe Oct 17, 2021 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9426001)
Do we know if they will be using Montreal or Ottawa as their base for the those flights.

I believe they said it would be YYZ,YOW,YHZ and YUL. Quite ambitious.

casper Oct 17, 2021 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9426014)
Who knew they were in such a rush to blow the wad of cash they got for selling YTZ and their sweetheart deal. Are the Deluces harbouring fantasies of their standard gambit of offloading their money pit to AC?

Yes, AC stands ready to buy out such ventures when the time is right. They did lose out on Transat.

That said, I think the best home for Porter is as a subsidiary of WestJet. WestJet through their Swoop and Encore have demonstrate they can operate with multiple operating divisions effectively. Porter understands how to operate in Quebec, a skill WestJet has yet to master.

Dominion301 Oct 17, 2021 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9426128)
I believe they said it would be YYZ,YOW,YHZ and YUL. Quite ambitious.

That’s the 4 jet bases. The question is which one, if any will be the hub? YOW would make the most sense for them. No competing hub(s), and an aircraft that hits the sweet spot for the size of YOW’s market, no congestion, no nonstop competition on a number of routes, already PD’s largest station that’s not called YTZ. I know the ex-PD YOW station manager who is still “plugged in” and the YOW staff have FWIW apparently been told “we have big plans for YOW” and PD officials were scouting out sites a few months ago for a new hangar. Another thing in YOW’s favour (I’m sure in the airline’s eyes) is the YOW counter/gate agents are not unionized unlike most PD stations.

Time will tell, but I imagine YOW will see eventually at least 20 jet departures per day. YYZ at least that many too of course.

hehehe Oct 18, 2021 4:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9426151)
That’s the 4 jet bases. The question is which one, if any will be the hub? YOW would make the most sense for them. No competing hub(s), and an aircraft that hits the sweet spot for the size of YOW’s market, no congestion, no nonstop competition on a number of routes, already PD’s largest station that’s not called YTZ. I know the ex-PD YOW station manager who is still “plugged in” and the YOW staff have FWIW apparently been told “we have big plans for YOW” and PD officials were scouting out sites a few months ago for a new hangar. Another thing in YOW’s favour (I’m sure in the airline’s eyes) is the YOW counter/gate agents are not unionized unlike most PD stations.

Time will tell, but I imagine YOW will see eventually at least 20 jet departures per day. YYZ at least that many too of course.

I think it would absolutely have to be YOW. No question about it at all. I wonder how AC and WS react though. The plan still seems quite ambitious IMO.

casper Oct 18, 2021 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9426255)
I think it would absolutely have to be YOW. No question about it at all. I wonder how AC and WS react though. The plan still seems quite ambitious IMO.

The COVID recovery period is the best time for Porter to do this. AC and WS are distracted with keeping the lights on to play the type of games they would normally.

AC has retrenched into Toronto and Montreal. Ottawa is not exactly a strong market for WS. They would leave Porter alone.

MountainView Oct 18, 2021 1:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9426347)
The COVID recovery period is the best time for Porter to do this. AC and WS are distracted with keeping the lights on to play the type of games they would normally.

AC has retrenched into Toronto and Montreal. Ottawa is not exactly a strong market for WS. They would leave Porter alone.

I wonder IF Porter decided to launch year-round YOW-YEG/YVR if WS would counter with year-round service of their own. I could see YVR working, but I'm not sure what the demand is like on YEG-YOW throughout Oct-Apr as only AC flew this year round pre-pandemic.

Dominion301 Oct 18, 2021 1:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9426347)
The COVID recovery period is the best time for Porter to do this. AC and WS are distracted with keeping the lights on to play the type of games they would normally.

AC has retrenched into Toronto and Montreal. Ottawa is not exactly a strong market for WS. They would leave Porter alone.

Very good point. There's a lot of routes AC and WS have not yet reinstated to Ottawa, especially YOW-LHR, with no timeline yet for that one or FRA (LH?). Those will be 2023 at the earliest. Some of them may never come back thanks to the DH3 retirement. YTZ-YOW announcement aside, AC it's clear AC are focussed on rebuilding the hubs asap and especially YUL. YOW could also give Porter access to LGA (assuming they can get slots) as preclearance to YTZ is no doubt now going to be delayed.

JakeLRS Oct 18, 2021 8:40 PM

Pivot Airlines will be launching soon

The first routes will be:

YKF-YUL
YKF-YOW

Looks like they'll be using a CRJ100 as the inaugural aircraft. Full announcement and launch dates coming this week.

Dominion301 Oct 18, 2021 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9426860)
Pivot Airlines will be launching soon

The first routes will be:

YKF-YUL
YKF-YOW

Looks like they'll be using a CRJ100 as the inaugural aircraft. Full announcement and launch dates coming this week.

Well look at that. Thanks for the info.

hehehe Oct 18, 2021 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9426860)
Pivot Airlines will be launching soon

The first routes will be:

YKF-YUL
YKF-YOW

Looks like they'll be using a CRJ100 as the inaugural aircraft. Full announcement and launch dates coming this week.

Thanks for the heads up! Didn't even know they existed.

JakeLRS Oct 18, 2021 11:50 PM

Flair Route Expansion

New routes are being loaded into the system... I wouldn't have guessed this...
No launch dates yet.


New Routes
DENVER (DEN) - Toronto (YYZ)
NASHVILLE (BNA) - Toronto (YYZ), Edmonton (YEG)
SAN FRANCISCO (SFO) - Edmonton (YEG), Vancouver (YVR)
VANCOUVER ISLAND/COMOX (YQQ) - Calgary (YYC), Edmonton (YEG)

MountainView Oct 19, 2021 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9427039)
Flair Route Expansion

New routes are being loaded into the system... I wouldn't have guessed this...
No launch dates yet.


New Routes
DENVER (DEN) - Toronto (YYZ)
NASHVILLE (BNA) - Toronto (YYZ), Edmonton (YEG)
SAN FRANCISCO (SFO) - Edmonton (YEG), Vancouver (YVR)
VANCOUVER ISLAND/COMEX (YQQ) - Calgary (YYC), Edmonton (YEG)

YEG-BNA is interesting! With the rest of them, I wish Flair luck! They seem quite random / well served already.

Denscity Oct 19, 2021 12:12 AM

ComOx

FlyYOW Oct 19, 2021 6:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9426347)
The COVID recovery period is the best time for Porter to do this. AC and WS are distracted with keeping the lights on to play the type of games they would normally.

AC has retrenched into Toronto and Montreal. Ottawa is not exactly a strong market for WS. They would leave Porter alone.

The COVID recovery period is indeed an ideal, perhaps the only time for PD to get serious. I’m just not so sure their E2 delivery window and the COVID recovery window will overlap enough for them to have this advantage. COVID recovery needs to be slow for them to build up a fleet and dig in.

All the more reason for them to focus on YOW with some feed from East. I have the highest of hopes for them to succeed wildly here.

thenoflyzone Oct 19, 2021 9:40 PM

If PD is getting their first E195s by mid year 2022, then we should be getting some announcements of upcoming routes in the next couple of months. Obviously the first couple of weeks, they will moreso operate YYZ-YOW/YUL for crew familiarity.

Thereafter, will be interesting to see where they base these E195s. We know YYZ, YUL, YOW and YHZ were mentioned, but will it be mostly YYZ, with a drizzle of the rest, or will it be more evenly spread out. We shall soon find out.

Dominion301 Oct 20, 2021 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9427039)
Flair Route Expansion

New routes are being loaded into the system... I wouldn't have guessed this...
No launch dates yet.


New Routes
DENVER (DEN) - Toronto (YYZ)
NASHVILLE (BNA) - Toronto (YYZ), Edmonton (YEG)
SAN FRANCISCO (SFO) - Edmonton (YEG), Vancouver (YVR)
VANCOUVER ISLAND/COMOX (YQQ) - Calgary (YYC), Edmonton (YEG)

Launch dates now available. Earliest routes launch 29MAR22 and all routes are 2x or 3x weekly: https://storage.googleapis.com/flyfl...5c278c55a0.pdf

nname Oct 20, 2021 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9428245)
These must be summer season launches.

YQQ starts Mar 29 (come from existing plane)

The new YEG and YYZ-based routes will start Apr 14. The new YVR-based routes will start May 16.

Dominion301 Oct 20, 2021 3:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9428269)
YQQ starts Mar 29 (come from existing plane)

The new YEG and YYZ-based routes will start Apr 14. The new YVR-based routes will start May 16.

Yeah, I found the long press release and edited the last post I made to add that.

I see the planned winter YOW-LAS has been quietly dropped, but the YOW-Florida flying will still kick off as planned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9428033)
If PD is getting their first E195s by mid year 2022, then we should be getting some announcements of upcoming routes in the next couple of months. Obviously the first couple of weeks, they will moreso operate YYZ-YOW/YUL for crew familiarity.

Thereafter, will be interesting to see where they base these E195s. We know YYZ, YUL, YOW and YHZ were mentioned, but will it be mostly YYZ, with a drizzle of the rest, or will it be more evenly spread out. We shall soon find out.

I get the feeling YOW and YYZ will see the most. Likely to safe to say YHZ will see the least. As far as crew familiarity, beyond empty training flights in the triangle, I wonder if PD will even attempt the triangle to YYZ?

Coldrsx Oct 20, 2021 4:12 AM

YEG-BNA is certainly interesting.

thenoflyzone Oct 20, 2021 9:39 PM

CATSA has encouraging passenger figures for Canada's 8 and 15 largest airports. These are weekly screened passenger departure numbers only. No arrivals, and doesn't include crew or airport employees. So it's pretty accurate.

https://www.catsa-acsta.gc.ca/en/scr...passenger-data

Last January, the top 8 and top 15 were at ~10% of 2019 passenger stats. Now, we are at 50%. That's a decent recovery. Yes, still a long way to go, but we are halfway there, and considering this rebound is holding pace in a slow month such as October is encouraging. By mid-2022, we should be around 75% of 2019 numbers.

hollywoodcory Oct 20, 2021 10:58 PM

LH finally moved FRA-YYC/YHZ over to EW (Or 4Y) in the GDS.

YYC Up to 5x weekly 333 from May 23
YHZ 3x weekly 332 from June 13 to early September.

The YYC flights are loaded into October, probably until the end of the summer season.

zahav Oct 21, 2021 5:31 AM

Quote the interesting destination list Eurowings Discover has. It is truly a leisure airline through and through, it was smart of LH to create this division to complete with Condor. I feel like the LH group could take Condor out, it has been shaky since the Thomas Cook Group went under at the end of 2019. 4Y is definitely positioning itself to take on those routes, if not already. People in YYC might not be thrilled that 3/4 of the European airlines serving YYC are strictly leisue (the 1 non-leisure being KLM), but honestly at this point, having any air service increase is a plus. No time to be an airline snob these days, take what you can get.


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