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-   -   PHILADELPHIA | 2301 JFK Boulevard | 303 FT | 22 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241344)

mcgrath618 Jan 2, 2020 5:57 PM

PHILADELPHIA | 2301 JFK Boulevard | 303 FT | 22 FLOORS
 
RIP the Chinese Wall

Title: 2301 JFK Boulevard
Project: Residential & Office
Architect: Gensler
Developer: PMC Property Group
Location: 2300 Block of JFK Boulevard, Philadelphia, PA
Neighborhood: Center City West (Market West)
District: Center City
Floors: 22 floors
Height: 303 ft

https://www.phila.gov/media/20200805...5rvki6KSyqYXxs

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3294a5a2_b.jpg2301 JFK Boulevard 2

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...53d8edcb_h.jpg2301 JFK Boulevard

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5819cb04_b.jpg2301 JFK Boulevard 3

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f645cc04_b.jpg2301 JFK Boulevard 5

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...9b02c495_b.jpg2301 JFK Boulevard 4

Old Design:
http://2301jfk.com/wp-content/upload...1-1024x615.jpg

http://2301jfk.com/wp-content/upload...py_Page_2a.jpg

http://2301jfk.com/

Knight Hospitaller Jan 2, 2020 7:36 PM

Now that I look at the renderings again, they are accurate. Seeing the train tracks in front of the building is what caused the confusion. It’s great to see the possibility of even such odd lots filling in.

christof Jan 2, 2020 7:40 PM

Your Logo Here sign needs to go.

shakman Jan 2, 2020 7:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christof (Post 8788865)
Your Logo Here sign needs to go.

It needs to say "Wendy's".

mja Jan 3, 2020 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller (Post 8788860)
Now that I look at the renderings again, they are accurate. Seeing the train tracks in front of the building is what caused the confusion. It’s great to see the possibility of even such odd lots filling in.

Agreed. The design might be boring or underwhelming on a more prime lot but I think this truthfully exceeds anything we could have hoped to expected to happen at this lot this cycle (or even next cycle, or the one after that).

summersm343 Jan 3, 2020 5:58 PM

Great project. Build it!

mcgrath618 Jan 3, 2020 6:10 PM

I never thought this parcel was big enough to support a tower. Guess I was wrong in the best of ways.

summersm343 Jan 3, 2020 6:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgrath618 (Post 8789722)
I never thought this parcel was big enough to support a tower. Guess I was wrong in the best of ways.

Yep! Towers can be built above the train tracks too along the 2000, 2100 and 2200 blocks of JFK... it's just more costly, so these will be the last 3 parcels developed in the area for sure.

dreadnought Jan 3, 2020 8:03 PM

not a great design, but more concerning is that the more office buildings they build on the east side of the river, the less likely that Schuylkill Yards will be built in its anticipated form, at least in a reasonable time frame. And less likely still would be the 30th Street District. If there is this anticipated need for office space, why not put it in SY? then when that's built, let the overflow demand spill across the river.
Unless the demand for office space is so great that the market could absorb both, which I wish were true but I don't think it is.

TK2001 Jan 4, 2020 8:41 PM

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...4c633ee534.png

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...1ef2445ca1.png

hammersklavier Jan 4, 2020 9:11 PM

Ground floor site plan ripped from the brochure:

https://i.ibb.co/cQHxN1h/Screenshot-...4-09-47-PM.png

So we're looking at a spec office building here? That's surprising in two ways: (1) we know that the Center City office market sits on the lower end of viability for spec construction (when was the last time a spec office building got built in Center City, anyway?) and (2) PMC is better known as an apartment developer than an office one. I guess that, with respect to the second point, PMC's Aramark project was so successful they want to get more broadly into the office game?

TK2001 Jan 4, 2020 9:55 PM

That better not be another blank wall

mcgrath618 Jan 5, 2020 6:00 AM

At least if it is a blank wall, River Walk II will (mostly) cover it. Then again, the Ritz 'mostly' covers the W.

However, this parcel is incredibly small. I wouldn't be surprised if a blank wall is a necessity simply from a design standpoint.

Love the height, hate the design. I would love it if this got refined in CDR, a la 523 N Broad.

Also, has anyone else noticed that this building will replace the last remnant of the 'Chinese Wall?' That's Philly history right there!

mcgrath618 Jan 5, 2020 9:27 PM

Could a mod tag this as Philadelphia?

TK2001 Jan 5, 2020 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgrath618 (Post 8790805)
At least if it is a blank wall, River Walk II will (mostly) cover it. Then again, the Ritz 'mostly' covers the W.

However, this parcel is incredibly small. I wouldn't be surprised if a blank wall is a necessity simply from a design standpoint.

Love the height, hate the design. I would love it if this got refined in CDR, a la 523 N Broad.

Also, has anyone else noticed that this building will replace the last remnant of the 'Chinese Wall?' That's Philly history right there!

On the floorplan, the blank wall is facing PECO. And yes, I see that the wall is a necessity due to small size.The design for me is meh, but I like the shape. When viewed from Commerce Square this'll look kind of like a modern Flatiron Building

ScreamShatter Jan 6, 2020 12:58 PM

Sharp building and an efficient use of a smaller parcel of property. Walking towards 30th St is going to be visually much more exciting with this and Riverwalk buildings.

SEFTA Jan 6, 2020 6:46 PM

This, along with Riverwalk will be a regular Glass Menagerie along the river.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...4a88ab01_b.jpgCC 1-6-20 c2

volguus zildrohar Jan 6, 2020 8:42 PM

River City 2.0? :laugh:

I'm having flashbacks to 2006.




phillyskyline.com

brenster Jan 7, 2020 1:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEFTA (Post 8791882)
This, along with Riverwalk will be a regular Glass Menagerie along the river.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...4a88ab01_b.jpgCC 1-6-20 c2

That building in the middle isn’t going to have much of a view.

3rd&Brown Jan 7, 2020 3:51 AM

I like it. Simple, good infill especially considering the location.

The design is pleasing-enough...and I doubt there is a blank wall on the south side.

hammersklavier Jan 7, 2020 5:40 AM

The parking lot behind the Presby apartments at 23rd and Race is starting to look mighty attractive. It and the Mandeville property are the only parking lots left facing the river.

Unfortunately design mistakes of the past come back to haunt us. Had the parking garage for that loft building at 23rd and Arch been better designed, it could've taken some retail infill which would've synergized nicely with River Walk's Giant. Alas, it wasn't and probably won't.

mcgrath618 Jan 7, 2020 6:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammersklavier (Post 8792477)
The parking lot behind the Presby apartments at 23rd and Race is starting to look mighty attractive. It and the Mandeville property are the only parking lots left facing the river.

Unfortunately design mistakes of the past come back to haunt us. Had the parking garage for that loft building at 23rd and Arch been better designed, it could've taken some retail infill which would've synergized nicely with River Walk's Giant. Alas, it wasn't and probably won't.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Do we expect this building to have anything fronting JFK other than the entrance? Some retail or a restaurant would really bring something to an otherwise dead area of the city.

mcgrath618 Jan 9, 2020 8:39 PM

Could a mod please tag this as Philadelphia and then delete this comment? This has been sitting in general for awhile now.

PhillyDreamsReturns Jan 31, 2020 5:21 PM

"NKF broker Craig Scheuerle said that the tower’s ultimate size will depend on leasing demand but that it is expected to fall between 200,000 and 500,000 square feet. PMC is prepared to break ground once it secures an anchor tenant willing to lease as little as 75,000 square feet, he said."

https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate...-20200131.html

jsbrook Feb 1, 2020 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammersklavier (Post 8790568)
Ground floor site plan ripped from the brochure:

https://i.ibb.co/cQHxN1h/Screenshot-...4-09-47-PM.png

So we're looking at a spec office building here? That's surprising in two ways: (1) we know that the Center City office market sits on the lower end of viability for spec construction (when was the last time a spec office building got built in Center City, anyway?) and (2) PMC is better known as an apartment developer than an office one. I guess that, with respect to the second point, PMC's Aramark project was so successful they want to get more broadly into the office game?

It's not truly spec. They won't break ground until an anchor tenant commits to at least 75,000 sq ft.

Jayfar Feb 2, 2020 1:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgrath618 (Post 8789722)
I never thought this parcel was big enough to support a tower. Guess I was wrong in the best of ways.

Samuel I. Oshiver called from his grave. He still thinks this should be 63 stories (or 60 on the Pennsylvania Boulevard side). In 1961 his name for this project was Golden City. :)

There was also a 30-some story proposal from a different developer in 1969. See zoning file archive including both: https://s3.amazonaws.com/lni-zoning-pdfs/219-203823.pdf

Discussion in the subthreads of this post at P.I.C.H.: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phil...0171297938177/

Who the heck was Samuel I. Oshiver you ask? High Priest Of The High Rise: Samuel I. Oshiver | HiddenCityPhila.org

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d3d4b45e_o.jpg

Aaamazarite Feb 3, 2020 6:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayfar (Post 8818367)
Samuel I. Oshiver called from his grave. He still thinks this should be 63 stories (or 60 on the Pennsylvania Boulevard side). In 1961 his name for this project was Golden City. :)

There was also a 30-some story proposal from a different developer in 1969. See zoning file archive including both: https://s3.amazonaws.com/lni-zoning-pdfs/219-203823.pdf

Discussion in the subthreads of this post at P.I.C.H.: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phil...0171297938177/

Who the heck was Samuel I. Oshiver you ask? High Priest Of The High Rise: Samuel I. Oshiver | HiddenCityPhila.org

Here's a model of that 1968 proposal. The Century 21 Complex

https://digital.library.temple.edu/d...72/default.jpg

TempleGuy1000 Feb 3, 2020 9:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaamazarite (Post 8819483)
Here's a model of that 1968 proposal. The Century 21 Complex

Never saw that one before! The monorail is easily my favorite part.

iheartphilly Feb 3, 2020 9:58 PM

^
The monorail was meant to go to the Disney hole at what is now known as market east. Big LOL.

Jayfar Feb 3, 2020 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000 (Post 8819701)
Never saw that one before! The monorail is easily my favorite part.

A few more details of the Century 21 complex here:
https://digital.library.temple.edu/d...id/38774/rec/4

There's a ton of stuff at at newspapers dot com. Search for Century 21, narrowed to select newspapers Inquirer and Daily News, years 1968-1971. Ultimately City approvals came easily, but the partners couldn't agree on the overall development plan and auctioned off the land in early 1971.

Inquirer Mar 14, 1968
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4356...st_complex_on/

DailY News Dec 19, 1970
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4356...ment_partners/

Inquirer Dec 20, 1970
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4356..._land_auction/

Jayfar Feb 4, 2020 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000 (Post 8819701)
Never saw that one before! The monorail is easily my favorite part.

The monorail itself appears to have been part of an ambitious and totally unrealized transportation plan for the 1976 Bicentennial.

Transit Network For Fete Planned At $324 Million - Inquirer, Oct 15, 1970

TempleGuy1000 Feb 4, 2020 12:28 AM

Very fascinating, thanks for sharing!

summersm343 Aug 5, 2020 3:09 PM

CDR Submission
22-stories
303 ft tall
24,730 sq ft of office space
275 residential units
PDF here:
https://www.phila.gov/media/20200805...ings-LoRes.pdf

summersm343 Aug 5, 2020 3:09 PM

Shortly than the original renderings, but still a nice design. I'll take it!

Plokoon11 Aug 5, 2020 3:17 PM

I'll take it, nice design.

Jawnadelphia Aug 5, 2020 3:28 PM

This building viewed in a vacuum is pretty cool. My issue is where it is located. We will have three blue-glass squares basically sandwiched next to each other, all three within 303-363 feet in height range, then immediately east, Trader Joe's at 316 feet (same thing, blue glass, square).
I guess it is safe to say, the way to maximize ROI in Philly is to build blue-glass towers in the 300-400 feet range. From the north and south, the views will be just... a straight line of blue-glass, a plateau. Not very satisfying from a skyline perspective.

cardeza Aug 5, 2020 3:54 PM

wow, I had no clue about this one!

iheartphilly Aug 5, 2020 3:55 PM

^
I like all the curves on this design. 300ft is a good height and anything built taller in the background in the future will not block the views looking east.

TK2001 Aug 5, 2020 4:15 PM

Very stunning! Philadelphia has been on fire with awesome proposals recently!

allovertown Aug 5, 2020 6:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia (Post 9001754)
This building viewed in a vacuum is pretty cool. My issue is where it is located. We will have three blue-glass squares basically sandwiched next to each other, all three within 303-363 feet in height range, then immediately east, Trader Joe's at 316 feet (same thing, blue glass, square).
I guess it is safe to say, the way to maximize ROI in Philly is to build blue-glass towers in the 300-400 feet range. From the north and south, the views will be just... a straight line of blue-glass, a plateau. Not very satisfying from a skyline perspective.

Not sure how you'd classify this as a square. It's got some nice curves. Also it's on a tiny wedge of land next to train tracks. I can get on board with quibbling over the glass color, but it's hard for me to view this as anything other than a big win.

Jawnadelphia Aug 5, 2020 6:38 PM

Right I like the curves. If this building was on the Delaware River, I'd be thrilled. It does nothing for the skyline though really--it gets lost between the sandwich of the Riverwalk towers and PECO.

PHL10 Aug 5, 2020 8:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia (Post 9001960)
Right I like the curves. If this building was on the Delaware River, I'd be thrilled. It does nothing for the skyline though really--it gets lost between the sandwich of the Riverwalk towers and PECO.

A cluster of similar sized buildings can make a nice affect despite it not doing much if you are just evaluating the silhouette of the skyline. This is a good example (I'm not comparing the quality of architecture but rather the visual texture of many like-sized buildings in a small area).

http://wirednewyork.com/images/nycbw/034.jpg

SEFTA Aug 5, 2020 10:03 PM

Ok. This was just posted! But Yowsa!
:ahhh:

https://www.phila.gov/media/20200805...5rvki6KSyqYXxs

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3294a5a2_b.jpg2301 JFK Boulevard 2

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...53d8edcb_h.jpg2301 JFK Boulevard

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5819cb04_b.jpg2301 JFK Boulevard 3

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f645cc04_b.jpg2301 JFK Boulevard 5

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...9b02c495_b.jpg2301 JFK Boulevard 4

TK2001 Aug 6, 2020 4:10 AM

I love it!

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...03588ddc13.png

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...cca8dd7160.png

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...85bacdb5be.png

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...d09897864d.png

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...cb9ce2148e.png

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...271056c5e.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...9c2459f469.png

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...e7754ff556.png

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...292e7c1041.png

Justin7 Aug 6, 2020 2:23 PM

Love this, but no retail here either (along with TJ's parking lot) is frustrating. Adding this many people on both sides of JFK could surely support... something.

allovertown Aug 6, 2020 7:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia (Post 9001960)
Right I like the curves. If this building was on the Delaware River, I'd be thrilled. It does nothing for the skyline though really--it gets lost between the sandwich of the Riverwalk towers and PECO.

Fair. I never really view things based on what they do for the skyline, so wasn't really thinking of the aspect.

I care many time more about how things look from the street level because that's how I interact with buildings in this city. Honestly don't really care at all about the skyline.

Jawnadelphia Aug 6, 2020 8:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allovertown (Post 9003200)
Fair. I never really view things based on what they do for the skyline, so wasn't really thinking of the aspect.

I care many time more about how things look from the street level because that's how I interact with buildings in this city. Honestly don't really care at all about the skyline.

Whaaaat?! Come on, a skyline brings so much civic pride and identity. You never view the skyline from a rooftop bar, or as you come into town from a bridge, or from the ballpark. Or think about the millions of people who drive past the city every year...

I am happy that area will be adding thousands of new residents. But this is a skyscraper community, let’s get some height! The Market West plateau.

allovertown Aug 7, 2020 5:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia (Post 9003233)
Whaaaat?! Come on, a skyline brings so much civic pride and identity. You never view the skyline from a rooftop bar, or as you come into town from a bridge, or from the ballpark. Or think about the millions of people who drive past the city every year...

I am happy that area will be adding thousands of new residents. But this is a skyscraper community, let’s get some height! The Market West plateau.

I like tall buildings because I like a dense urban environment and the atmosphere they create. I'm all for tall buildings. And of course I appreciate the skyline from certain vantage points from time to time. But when a new building is announced, I'm never thinking much about how the building fits into the skyline.

This is a good building. I'm happy it's being built. How it fits into the skyline doesn't really factor into that equation.

Appreciating skyscrapers and being into skylines are assuredly related topics, but to me they're still distinct. I care a lot about one, not really much about the other. I care much more about what new buildings mean for the people who live here as opposed to those driving by on a highway.

Jawnadelphia Aug 7, 2020 12:42 PM

^Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that.

I'd love to see the math as to why the Philly market for luxury apartments seems to top out at the 300-400 foot range for new towers. At this point, it isn't just a coincidence... The Alexander, Riverwalks, Trader Joe's, 2301 JFK, 1213 Walnut, The Harper, 1620 Sansom, 1919 Market, the University City newer buildings...

iheartphilly Aug 7, 2020 2:14 PM

^
I think the majority of the people that rent in the city prioritize the following when looking to rent:
1)cost of rent and location (either parking availability and affordability or easy access to mass transit)
2)bldg amenities like, retail, gym, outdoor pool, common area, etc.
3)new bldg vs old bldg-what the interior of the apartment looks like and how it functions and the amount of living space per cost, laundry in apt or laundry room in basement for tenants
4)look and height of bldg, views from apt.


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