Downtown Los Angeles - South Group; Elleven, Luma, Evo and Future Projects

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ It's idiotic and people like that should stay in the fucking suburbs. Truly Disgusting in my opinion. How can people be THAT stupid? I'm SO SICK and TIRED of repeating to these block-heads that towers are what create the views. Let's take away the Library Tower since it's the tallest building of them all and blocks the most of your views!!! :sleep:

Let's just leave all parking lots--parking lots--why don't we! That'll make for a fantastic urban environment filled with street life and retail options!

You need to chill. :no:


:???: I think it was you who didn't really like skyscrapers anyway right? If so, you couldn't possibly care about what "we" think.

I do care when posters like you are scaring off new members.


Who died and made you moderator? Unlike you, I work every day to make Downtown LA a "better" place, so I feel I have more at stake here. If you can't handle that, that's too bad!

[ocman]

^ It's idiotic and people like that should stay in the fucking suburbs. Truly Disgusting in my opinion. How can people be THAT stupid? I'm SO SICK and TIRED of repeating to these block-heads that towers are what create the views. Let's take away the Library Tower since it's the tallest building of them all and blocks the most of your views!!! :sleep:

Let's just leave all parking lots--parking lots--why don't we! That'll make for a fantastic urban environment filled with street life and retail options!

You need to chill. :no:


:???: I think it was you who didn't really like skyscrapers anyway right? If so, you couldn't possibly care about what "we" think.

I do care when posters like you are scaring off new members.


Who died and made you moderator? Unlike you, I work every day to make Downtown LA a "better" place, so I feel I have more at stake here. If you can't handle that, that's too bad!

You know it's really sad that hours laters, you are still defending yourself after you make incendiary comments to fredman23, and you get called on it.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ No, anyone who says they dont' want a tower built BECAUSE they don't want to see someone in their boxers is going to get that from me.

It's actually quite sad that you wouldn't be bothered by that kind of pre-nimbyism. Then again, you are in the O-C. Carry on.

[ocman]

^ No, anyone who says they dont' want a tower built BECAUSE they don't want to see someone in their boxers is going to get that from me.

It's actually quite sad that you wouldn't be bothered by that kind of pre-nimbyism. Then again, you are in the O-C. Carry on.

Someone makes one comment about the aesthetics of his neighborhood as a new resident and you take his head off. Anyone can come from The OC or The LA and still spot an exaggerated reaction from being "bothered."

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ I deal with it every day O-C man. I deal with Downtown LA every day of my fucking life, so it's a little different. I hear that kind of shit often and it pisses ME OFF because it screws with the ideals of a developing urban area. You would not believe HOW MANY people I have crossed who have made that remark: "Oh, I don't want any new towers built because it'll block my view!" Really?

[LAMetroGuy]

Anyone who gets "scared off" from just the posts on this thread should grow some thicker skin. If you scare so easily, maybe this website isn't for you.

[citywatch]

You would not believe HOW MANY people I have crossed who have made that remark: "Oh, I don't want any new towers built because it'll block my view!" Really?
Ppl are unbelievable.

Maybe one reason it's taken so damn long for DT to become a better, nicer place is because the type of ppl who are gonna be bothered more about their view being blocked than whether a wasteland parking lot or scroungy bldg next door or across the street is removed or not, or the ppl who think the hood doesn't need any more big projs or that big projs are irrelevant (as the former director of the CRA claimed several yrs ago), have dominated city hall & DT for a long time.

And yet look at all the zillions of ppl who've dissed DT for yrs & yrs, & preferred other hoods, such as those west of the Grove or Century City, or the burbs.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

:rolleyes:

[ocman]

Anyone who gets "scared off" from just the posts on this thread should grow some thicker skin. If you scare so easily, maybe this website isn't for you.

LaMetroguy, obviously you have to have a thick skin when you come on this forum. At the same time, people who SHOULD have a thick skin, need not call a poster names or attack them as a person rather than their comment, especially to a guy who has only posted a few times and probably doesn't know how angry people can get here. But I guess he really, REALLY knows now, doesn't he?

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

lets get back to the thread so it wont be closed.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Yeah anyway, some people here seem to think they somehow can interrupt the post. :rolleyes:

[franman23]

Gentleman, come on already. I am over it and I am not going anywhere. Let's bury the hatchet, like I said before let's move on. Mature adults should be able to agree to disagree. Everyone has different perspectives. While my initial comments may have been a little naive, I'm not sure I deserved to be crucified. That being said, I hope future discussion can be more constructive.

For the record, I do not think the lot across the street should stay a parking lot. That doesn't make any sense and does not add value to the neighborhood. I think its also fair to say that all new development doesn't need to be a monstrous tower. I guess we'll see what happens.

On another note, any idea where the pictures of the interior units at Elleven are. That's what I originally was looking to see when I joined the group. I'll be at the South Group event on Thursday night so I can take some pictures then and post them later in the week. Peace.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ I'm as riled and fervent as a NIMBY, but I'm an ANTI-NIMBY.

[WesTheAngelino]

^No you just have a very set view of how you would "better" the city of LA, including as I recall demarcating entire swaths of LA for immediate native removal and resettlement by the wealthy (franman, search for the thread "Downtown Vice" to see LAB at his finest). And anyone who differs from that view is subject to namecalling, ad hominem, and ANYthing except debating the actual facts and realities of the issue.

Welcome to the board franman, and I'm in agreement with you that the lot need not be a tall tower. A good city encompasses all kinds of development. I'd trade a very dense swath of midrises a la London or Paris over a cluster of high rises any day.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ I'd prefer a city like Hong Kong or NYC, which both have tall towers and a thriving pedestrian life anyday ;)


BTW, WesTheAngelino happens to believe he's the savior of all who are poor. He expects private developers to somehow take on the burden of providing affordable housing at their cost. He feels anywhere that resembles commercialized prosperity is somehow "not cool" a la the Westside.

He likes to make haste and incredibly inane assumptions about situations that he has never seen or experienced. I.E., somehow knowing what and how we acted and said in a convertible driving through a shithole in Westlake that he so desires to live in. He somehow KNEW exactly what we said, and that we had any interest at all in offending the residents of that neighborhood.

He's incredibly provincial, and looks through nothing but the "poor and victimized" glasses. If you think he'll respect anyone else's viewpoint outside of his own, think again.

[Swansea]

I love when Brig gets riled up. Makes me all hot and bothered.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ I'd prefer a city like Hong Kong or NYC, which both have tall towers and a thriving pedestrian life anyday ;)


BTW, WesTheAngelino happens to believe he's the savior of all who are poor. He expects private developers to somehow take on the burden of providing affordable housing at their cost. He feels anywhere that resembles commercialized prosperity is somehow "not cool" a la the Westside.

He likes to make haste and incredibly inane assumptions about situations that he has never seen or experienced. I.E., somehow knowing what and how we acted and said in a convertible driving through a shithole in Westlake that he so desires to live in. He somehow KNEW exactly what we said, and that we had any interest at all in offending the residents of that neighborhood.

He's incredibly provincial, and looks through nothing but the "poor and victimized" glasses. If you think he'll respect anyone else's viewpoint outside of his own, think again.



Oh btw, Swamsea happens to be Wes' mini-me, IOW, his little shadow. :hilarious

[edluva]

franman, we LA folk really are a bunch of nice guys. don't be scared off by our tenacity. i know i look forward to your contributions, even in disagreement. welcome to the board.

[LAMetroGuy]

I love when Brig gets riled up. Makes me all hot and bothered.

is that what turns you on? :crazy: do tell!

[LAMetroGuy]

^No you just have a very set view of how you would "better" the city of LA, including as I recall demarcating entire swaths of LA for immediate native removal and resettlement by the wealthy (franman, search for the thread "Downtown Vice" to see LAB at his finest). And anyone who differs from that view is subject to namecalling, ad hominem, and ANYthing except debating the actual facts and realities of the issue.

Welcome to the board franman, and I'm in agreement with you that the lot need not be a tall tower. A good city encompasses all kinds of development. I'd trade a very dense swath of midrises a la London or Paris over a cluster of high rises any day.

franman, in that thread you will also see Wes at his best, no doubt. Wes, you didn't have to go there... first you don't know what exactly happend... just an idea of what happend and yet you are making assumptions over the situation and jumpting to the wrong conclusions. Please learn to understand of the things you speak of before you put your thoughts together and act like you know what your talking about, its not cute.

[WesTheAngelino]

:hilarious Oh, LAB, you always crack me up.


Oh, did I mention that LAB also loves to attribute opinions and statements to people that they have never even made? Never (dig through some threads and prove me wrong) have I said or even thought: I'm the savior of the poor (sheesh, just look at my views on the homeless, globalization, and Wal-Mart), that I expect private developers to build affordable housing (that would go against market principles, ergo such a thing is the place of the govt. I beleive Germany has a small tax levied on new real estate developments used to build affordable housing...sounds like a good idea for LA), "commercialized" = uncool (isn't Hollwood pretty commercial? Los Feliz? Pasadena? I dig those places. Sorry I don't like plastic-fantastic crapholes like Third Street and the Grove). Also, you can claim all you want that I claimed to be omniscient about your little Westlake incident , but it never happened. I never said I knew what people said to you or you to them. The argument started when you basically called for the razing of a neighborhood of 200,000 people because some cholos shouted some nasty things at you and I replied with something akin to "well no wonder you got shouted at with that kind of attitude". People carry their attitudes with them, it's not like you can just shut off your personality. It usually comes across no matter what.

[LAMetroGuy]

People carry their attitudes with them, it's not like you can just shut off your personality. It usually comes across no matter what.

Now I know your crazy.... :uhh: I refuse to argue with a drunk or a crazy.... I'm threw with this thread, carry on! :tyty:

[RBR]

Well we'll have different views, but i think everyone wants what’s best for the city. Here's a picture i found of the location of the glass tower.

http://www.loopnet.com/Attachments/3/E/A/3EA73DF8-DA29-49F5-B617-0092AD24555D_or.jpg

[WesTheAngelino]

^ God that looks so gross with all the surface parking.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Wes, you're nuts and you know it. Everyone here knows you're a freak when it comes to "protecting the poor" and why bash on Wal-mart when it's your favorite store? To say you haven't posted idiotic conjectures is a bit arrogant. Where you thought developers shouldn't build luxury condos and instead opt to supply affordable housing? Related in CC ring a bell? End of story. Anyone on this board who has met me in person would disagree with your last idiotic remark. You're a sad case.


And thank god Downtown LA is being "yuppified." If that'll keep you away, all the better!

[WesTheAngelino]

What's freakish about thinking that people have equal rights? I'd like you to give me some examples of how I'm a freak on that one (I'm sure you won't do that as I've tried to engage you many times to give me some facts, numbers, quotes---anything but you're childishness and conjecture).

Bash Wal-Mart? I DON"T bash Wal-Mart, that was my point.

Also, I never said the CC development shouldn't be allowed. What I said was that it was sad and very telling of our broken system and bankrupt morality that we're tearing down a perfectly good highrise just to build another one of a comparable hieght when there is a severe housing shortage.....after saying that you and several others began calling me a socialist and the like. And I won't be staying away from Downtown. I have high hopes that it will be a diverse cornucopia of activity

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ I have high hopes that it'll be the kind of place you prefer not to hang out at! :)

[ocman]

^No you just have a very set view of how you would "better" the city of LA, including as I recall demarcating entire swaths of LA for immediate native removal and resettlement by the wealthy (franman, search for the thread "Downtown Vice" to see LAB at his finest). And anyone who differs from that view is subject to namecalling, ad hominem, and ANYthing except debating the actual facts and realities of the issue.

Welcome to the board franman, and I'm in agreement with you that the lot need not be a tall tower. A good city encompasses all kinds of development. I'd trade a very dense swath of midrises a la London or Paris over a cluster of high rises any day.

I'd trade for Paris but not London. But I too would love to see blocks of Elleven-sized midrises than a bunch of "tall poppies" sparsely distributed among midrises. Though the tower I think Fred is talking about, I wouldn't qualify that as monstrous.

[colemonkee]

Well we'll have different views, but i think everyone wants what’s best for the city. Here's a picture i found of the location of the glass tower.

http://www.loopnet.com/Attachments/3/E/A/3EA73DF8-DA29-49F5-B617-0092AD24555D_or.jpg

RBR, this is a cool map. The picture looks up-to-date, but I wonder if the info is up-to-date. It says that 1101 Olive Lofts are under construction. Can anyone verify this? It also says that 1101 Olive is 75 units, when Lee Homes says differently. Here's the blurb from the Lee site:

OLIVE LOFTS, CITY OF LOS ANGELES
The Lee Group in partnership with CIM is in predevelopment on a new project at the corner of Olive and 11th Streets. The project is envisioned as a 18-story, new construction high-rise with 105 units atop a parking structure and 4,500 square feet of neighborhood serving commercial/retail. The entitlements have been filed with the City of Los Angeles and construction is scheduled to begin in Summer 2005.

Obviously the info on the Lee site is a bit outdated as well. My question to the group is - wasn't this the tower that was supposedly increased to 24 or 25 stories, or was that the lot labeled "n" in the map? I'm starting to get confused.

Also, Elleven looks completely topped out, saw it tonight on the way home. Time permitting, I'll try to get some photos on Sunday to show the progress AND check on this supposed 1101 "construction".

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Olive Street Tower will be built on top of a parking structure like 1100 Wilshire from the renderings that I saw. It'll be designed almost like that one skyscraper in Century City that looks like a palm tree (SunAmerica?).

[WesTheAngelino]

why Paris and not London, OCman?

[ocman]

Superficial reasons. London architecture is too stately. Paris architecture seems more artistically serious. And the city has more examples of singly great buildings. Starchitects are working a lot in London but they don't seem to give their best efforts to that city.

[colemonkee]

Olive Street Tower will be built on top of a parking structure like 1100 Wilshire from the renderings that I saw. It'll be designed almost like that one skyscraper in Century City that looks like a palm tree (SunAmerica?).

Care to share those renderings with the rest of the class?

[LAMetroGuy]

Olive Street Tower will be built on top of a parking structure like 1100 Wilshire from the renderings that I saw. It'll be designed almost like that one skyscraper in Century City that looks like a palm tree (SunAmerica?).

Care to share those renderings with the rest of the class?

http://www.osarch.com/1_olive_full.jpg

[colemonkee]

^THAT's Olive Street Tower? That map and the Lee Homes web site have to be waaaay off, then, because that thing is much more 18 stories and 105 units. And there's no way it's under construction.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

The one LAMG posted is an architectural firm in Uruguay and I am still not sure where that is supposed to be.

This is the drawing that I saw for Olive Street Lofts:

http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/3549/olivecra4lt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Perhaps the one LAMG posted will be near by? :???:

[LAMetroGuy]

oh my, i have never seen that one LAB! Well, I just read Olive Street Tower and posted the urugay architecture firm's vision. This I think is the Olive Street Lofts... i guess they are two different projects. Interesting!

[BrandonJXN]

That thing is pretty cool. It's strange..it looks..tall..I mean very tall..but it doesn't look like it should be tall.

The lower level(s) would be a perfect spot for a Borders style place.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ Actually, I HOPE we can get Borders into the City National Bank Plaza. They have retail space in the center/middle between the two towers called the "Jewel Box." Currently, the ground floor will get a steak house and something else. But the upper floor is HUGE and should get a book store like Borders.

[WesTheAngelino]

Aren't they also trying to revive that shiznitty underground mall in that complex?

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ Yes, they're currently almost done with the NEW 24 Hour Fitness gym, which will be built on level B.

Level C is being taken out. It'll either become parking or underground office space.

It is being completely revamped and will look a bit like Beverly Center's interior with the "cheap-chic" look.

[colemonkee]

I count 15 or 16 stories in that rendering of Olive Street Lofts that LAB posted. Thanks for posting, btw.

As for my comments on the design, as a pure form, it looks incredibly awkward and top-heavy. It there's going to be a parking podium that big, the tower should be at least 30 stories tall. BTW, do they really need that much parking for that building, or will that be public parking for the retail at the base or down the street?

[RBR]

Maybe someone could go down to the site and see what's happening with the olive street lofts, perhaps there is a billboard there or something.

[katfam]

I'll be at the South VIP Event tonight where the Mayor is expected to be attending. Of course I'll take pictures of the lighting ceremony of Elleven and let you all know everything that happens.

Starts at 6PM in front of Elleven.

"Their will be a live performance by the internationally renowned group, Mass Ensemble. They will be playing their spectacular Earth Harp in one of the most powerful musical displays you will ever experience."



Hopefully I can get these pictures up, as well as the long awaited pictures of inside Elleven tonight after I get home.

[colemonkee]

Maybe someone could go down to the site and see what's happening with the olive street lofts, perhaps there is a billboard there or something.

It's my plan to do that on Sunday.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

I'll be at the South VIP Event tonight where the Mayor is expected to be attending. Of course I'll take pictures of the lighting ceremony of Elleven and let you all know everything that happens.

Starts at 6PM in front of Elleven.

"Their will be a live performance by the internationally renowned group, Mass Ensemble. They will be playing their spectacular Earth Harp in one of the most powerful musical displays you will ever experience."



Hopefully I can get these pictures up, as well as the long awaited pictures of inside Elleven tonight after I get home.

I'm going too. Maybe I'll see you there! :hug:

[LAMetroGuy]

http://downtownnews.com/content/articles/2005/10/31/news/news04.jpg

Lennar Corp. and KB Home are planning up to 700 units in two towers just east of Staples Center. It's the first Downtown venture for both companies. Rendering courtesy of KB Home.

Mega Builders Join South Park Housing Frenzy

by Kathryn Maese

The forest of residential towers being planned around Staples Center just got denser. Last week two major housing developers announced plans to create as many as 700 units in two high-rises.

KB Home and Lennar Corp., among the biggest homebuilders in the nation, said they will partner on a 40-story and a 27-story structure on Figueroa between 11th and 12th streets across from Staples Center. Pending city approvals, the four-acre project could break ground as early as June, said KB Home spokeswoman Caroline Shaw.

"What we're really announcing is the launch of KB Urban, a concept that will help us to develop more high density projects in city centers," Shaw said. "We chose L.A. because it's in our own backyard and it's a vibrant place. We want to contribute to the Downtown revitalization."

The proposed venture, dubbed Fig Central, would add to more than a dozen housing towers in the blocks surrounding the planned L.A. Live project, a $1.5 billion entertainment district helping to fuel the area's comeback with a slate of restaurants, clubs, retail and a 1,100-room Convention Center headquarters hotel.

Last summer, a subsidiary of Lennar, Newhall Land, purchased the property from Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG), the developer of L.A. Live. The site is one of many around Staples Center that has been sold by AEG to housing developers. The district is entitled for up to 2,000 housing units.

South Group developer Tom Cody, who purchased the sister site to the south with plans to develop 648 units in two 30-plus-story towers - he hopes to break ground in the middle of next year - said Fig Central will knit together the entertainment district with the emerging residential community.


"The plans I've seen are spectacular," Cody said. "It's an enormous endeavor and it is very complimentary from the standpoint that we want to see that retail happen. They know how to execute complicated, large-scale projects that have a positive impact on neighborhoods like this. It gives us the confidence that we are in the right place at the right time."

Like many of Downtown's new residential projects, Fig Central could include ground floor retail, in this case up to 250,000 square feet. An artist's rendering depicts a shopping area to be developed by LNR Property Corp. fronting Figueroa Street, along with mammoth billboards and television screens in keeping with the flashy L.A. Live design.

Lennar spokeswoman Marlee Lauffer would not comment on the project's specifics, saying the details of the deal are still being worked out. Lauffer, however, noted that the firm is looking to establish itself in the Downtown market, and recently opened an office in Wells Fargo Tower.

"We are getting involved in the urban market in L.A. and are excited about the great opportunities in Downtown, particularly around Staples Center," she said. "There is strong demand in the marketplace and there is great synergy occurring there."

[bobcat]

The rendering looks slick! I especially like the large billboards and screens. It's a perfect compliment to l.a. live.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

also, it mentions the two towers in the background will also break ground in summer. Its south groups second project. i hope the amazing demand for Elleven, Luma and Evo will prompt them to go even taller than the 30+ that keeps on getting quoted. hopefully up to 40 - 45.

[colemonkee]

Actually, I'd rather they keep them at 30+ and start planning the 40 story tower for their third project downtown.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ It's planned for two 34-story towers, BUT they may be able to purchase the last remaining parcel on that lot owned by the city. They plan on building a 60+story tower there if acquired, which would be taller than the Hilton!

[bobcat]

^ It's planned for two 34-story towers, BUT they may be able to purchase the last remaining parcel on that lot owned by the city. They plan on building a 60+story tower there if acquired, which would be taller than the Hilton!

HOLY COW!!! :eek:

[colemonkee]

^ Now THAT's what I'm talkin' about!! Since South seems to have their act together, I'd rather they keep their current pace, and increase the size and scope of each subsequent project.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

are you fucking with us? i hope not. that would be a second peak for our skyline!!!!!

[ksep]

:nuts: OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!! somebody slap me, quick! :nuts:

[Codex Borgia]

:nuts: OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!! somebody slap me, quick! :nuts:

:poke:

Snap Out Of It! LOL

[LongBeachUrbanist]

For what it's worth, here are some grainy shots of Grand Lofts and Elleven I shot Friday evening with my cell phone camera.

http://static.flickr.com/25/58077235_0403a26ca8_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/24/58077238_ead9c35733_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/27/58077239_9a2ab387fb_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/29/58077241_acf982e403_o.jpg

Despite the grain and poor light, you can see the excellent progress taking place. Along with SBC Tower, these buildings already dominate the area, forming a definite mini-skyline along 11th Street.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

When Glass Tower finishes (sometime in 2008), that little corner will be so freakin' cool!

[colemonkee]

Big-ass photo update in the LA Rundown thread in City Compilations forum.

[LAMetroGuy]

^ It's planned for two 34-story towers, BUT they may be able to purchase the last remaining parcel on that lot owned by the city. They plan on building a 60+story tower there if acquired, which would be taller than the Hilton!


60+ story tower got me thinking on how that would look, here is my best guess:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/rpulido/testcopy.jpg

[citywatch]

For what it's worth, here are some grainy shots of Grand Lofts and Elleven I shot Friday evening with my cell phone camera.

Those shots are perfectly fine, certainly better than no updated photos at all. I know LAB also used his cell phone to take some pics several months ago & so I've hoped that option means more ppl now will be likelier to snap shots of DT in upcoming months. IOW, if ppl don't have a camera with them but are carrying a photo-ready cell phone, they'll still be able to post images of ongoing changes in the hood.

BTW, the side of the Grand Lofts bldg that has those 3 brown portions that stick out from the facade looks kind of odd & clunky.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ It looks better in person. Plus, the Olive Street Lofts will be going up and covering that hopefully pretty soon.

[colemonkee]

I'll agree with LAB, it looks much better in person. LAB, I'm assuming that rendering is just to represent scale? That thing looks like it's straight out of Sydney or Perth. I hope we get a more "LA" design for such a prominent tower.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

It's not a for sure thing. It's contingent on land acquisition! I hope they get it!

[WesTheAngelino]

Any development for DT is great....but I'm worried that these tall towers are not going to improve the street like in more than a small area. Do you guys think that there will be smaller lowrise developments and street retail to fill in the gaps?

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ I'm wondering what will happen to Flower St. south of Pico. There is SO MUCH potential there, but most of all those buildings that line the Blue Line have become nothing more than blighted, vacant eye-sores. I'm hope those pretty brick structures can be rehabilitated into your typical metropolitan retail: cafes, galleries, clubs, bars, restaurants, fashion, etc.

[WesTheAngelino]

^ I don't see why not. there is a big chunk of development going on around the SC campus and I definitely see the actual realization of a "figueroa corridor" in the very near future. and MTA has picked the Flower Street alignment for Expo right? And there will be a stop on the line between Washington and Expo yes? That would be a good opportunity for a high density node. The only thing that worries me is the proximity of the 110 to parts of flower street. But then again stuff like the Medici and Orsini sit right by the fwy.

[colemonkee]

South of 24th Street, Flower actually abuts the 110. So any development in that area would have to be on the West side. But there's plenty of opportunity there. It's mostly strip malls, dilapidated apartment buildings and parking lots. Or car repair shops. I'd be down for moving most of that out. Ideally, I'd like to see development travel north from SC and south along Fig and Flower from LA Live, kind of like we're seeing on the "tips" of Broadway right now.

But Chano's stays. Don't fuck with Chano's.

[WesTheAngelino]

Chano's is an institution! I wish we had more bars in the area. There's bascially two: the 901 club which is a nasty dive right north of Chano's and dominated by Greek idiots (the A&F wearing variety, not the good kind that make hummus and pita) and La Barca @ Vermont/Adams

[colemonkee]

^ Is the 2-9, er, 29th Street Cafe no longer open? If not, that would be a shame. Those lines painted on both sides of 28th street would be meaningless...

[WesTheAngelino]

Oh no it's still there. It's kind of more of a restaurant than a bar. Now it's gained some infamy due to the fact that someone found a baby in its dumpster and the girl who put it there to die lived in an apt above the 2-9.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

I can imagine that entire stretch of Figueroa from Jefferson up to South Park being redeveloped as a hip urban neighborhood that includes SC students as well as young downtown folk who can't afford the high-rise condos.

As far as I can see, the biggest obstacle is the LA Planning Dept, with it's antiquated codes and zoning for the area. Time to get those Specific Plans updated!

[katfam]

These pictures are from the unit 411 on the North East corner.

http://www.kylefritz.com/DSCN3497.JPG

http://www.kylefritz.com/DSCN3499.JPG

http://www.kylefritz.com/DSCN3496.JPG


This is my unit's view from the living room...waited a year to see that :)
http://www.kylefritz.com/DSCN3531.JPG

[BrandonJXN]

Wow..it looks huge. It doesn't look like the lofts are that big looking at the building from the outside.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Can't wait until more towers rise around the building! Looks waaay too desolate with all those parking lots around it :(

Can't wait until Glass Tower, Evo, and Thom Mayne's Towers rises!

[citywatch]

Those photos, katfam, really give a good idea of the way the hood will look like to new residents. Hope to see more of such shots in upcoming wks & months.


Looks waaay too desolate with all those parking lots around it
That's still the overriding impression I have of lots of sites in DT, be they the parking lots around metro417, or the area across from Pete's Cafe (where the Medallion is supposed to go), or many of the blocks around the apt or condo projs rising in south pk.

Now you know why I'm not too patient about the pace of change, even though it's better now than it was a few yrs ago. It's the reason I'll go by the site where the new Ralphs is rising & then wanna ask, OK, how about some devlpr finally coming in & getting rid of that parking lot across the street or a block away?! IOW, there's still lots of space that has to be fixed up or cleaned up, which is why I never thought the idea of building a sports stadium somewhere in South Pk would eat up too much land too quickly, because it seems like there's still way more sites in DT that need to be built on than prob the number of devlprs & condo buyers or apt renters who can fill them up, at least well before 2020 or 2040.

[colemonkee]

^ 2020 is fifteen years from now. A lot can happen in 15 years. Just look at pictures of DT LA in 1980 and 1995 for reference. If we have sustainable growth, those lots will eventually be developed, hopefully with bigger and bigger developements over time. Develop them all at one time and you get a bunch of 4-8 story buildings because they're won't be enough demand. I actually like spreading that demand over 15 years so we get a bunch of bigger projects - and a new skyline as well.

[franman23]

Great Pics. I'm in the same corner unit except up higher. Looks like good amount of open living space. Windows are awesome. Hopefully we'll be in by April.

[danparker276]

Yeah, those windows are great. That's a great unit.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^^ I'm sincerely happy for all of you new urban dwellers!!!

[katfam]

Check out some more pictures of the inside of Elleven on www.loftla.com (http://www.loftla.com)

Thanks Dan for such a great site!

[citywatch]

I actually like spreading that demand over 15 years so we get a bunch of bigger projects - and a new skyline as well.
My question is how much longer will this type of scene, a photo taken by katfam, be visible in DT? It shows the promise of the newly converted Reserve apt bldg in the background to the left & the Eastern columbia bldg in the middle (with the old United Artists theater bldg, or the "jesus saves" bldg, to the right), mixed in with the junk that sits in the foreground of or all around those various sites.

http://loftla.com/11/sm_kf11g.jpg

If demand for new condo & apt devlpt isn't strong enough over the next 10 yrs----& I'm guessing it's not even worth factoring in possible demand for new office bldgs in the future----will such deadzones hang around too long & will that then test ppl's patience too much, & will that in turn make the hood stagnate again? IOW, I agree that while it's better to insert major devlpt into areas like South pk, instead of ending up with puny new apt or condo bldgs, my question is if such large scale devlpt can't be created for yrs to come, will the intermediate period of being stuck with things like deadzone parking lots hurt the hoods' momentum too much?

[RAlossi]

I don't think residential demand will lessen too much anytime soon. This is a particularly unique area in which to live, and people are tired of commutes. People are tired of the traffic on the Westside, and the promise of being able to walk to stores and shops and cafes and book stores... is just too much to pass up. I know several people that are going to be looking to move away from either the Westside or the Valley and into a loft downtown, including myself at some point in the future. Judging by the speed in which certain condo projects have sold, demand isn't going down.

I'm hoping the deadzone lots will be developed sooner rather than later. Construction takes a while to complete, so even if construction started on the lots now, it would take several years before they're all filled in. In the mean time, there are many adaptive reuse buildings available in which to live.

I hope that eventually the progress will spread south and east toward the Industrial District. There's lots of potential there if you get rid of the car junking lots and the scrap metal industry.

[bobcat]

Frankly, I don't think parking lots are downtown's primary problem. In poll after poll, the #1 reason given for downtown's negative image is the homeless situation. It's a lot easier to build something on a lot than it is to solve the homeless problem.

[POLA]

^Exactly! Time to take off the white gloves. Though, every new building is one more security guard, and one less lot where someone can pitch a tent and take a piss.

[katfam]

http://loftla.com/11/kf11c.jpg
http://loftla.com/11/kf11f.jpg
http://loftla.com/11/kf11e.jpg

[RAlossi]

I think that people who might work downtown but aren't "urban enthusiasts," per se, like we are, only see the homeless problem and say "I don't like downtown because of the homeless problem." However, if the "problem" were "solved" tomorrow, people still probably wouldn't like downtown as much because of all the parking lots. Maybe not conciously, but still.

I'd much rather be walking somewhere that has building after building after building at night.... rather than a homeless-free downtown full of parking lots. It's a comfort thing.

[citywatch]

In poll after poll, the #1 reason given for downtown's negative image is the homeless situation.

Panhandlers & street encampments make the hood a lot worse, but they're not as visible (at least so far) in areas like south pk or around the financial dist, or where the Pegasus apt bldg or Gas Co lofts or Standard hotel is located. And when I've been around areas in DT such as near Disney Hall, the thing that stands out to me is not the number of vagrants wandering here & there but all the depressing parking lots & deadzone empty land. The same is true of the areas around Elleven or the Grand Ave lofts, because until not long ago that hood was so desolate that even homeless ppl, esp pandhandlers looking for lots of handouts, avoided it.

[bobcat]

^^I don't agree. There are plenty of other places full of parkings lots that don't suffer from the negative perception of downtown. Years ago, when the area was even worse than it is now, for one reason or another I found myself in skid row after dark, and it was a positively frightening experience. I'll take parking lots over that any day.

[bobcat]

In poll after poll, the #1 reason given for downtown's negative image is the homeless situation.

Panhandlers & street encampments make the hood a lot worse, but they're not as visible (at least so far) in areas like south pk or around the financial dist, or where the Pegasus apt bldg or Gas Co lofts or Standard hotel is located. And when I've been around areas in DT such as near Disney Hall, the thing that stands out to me is not the number of vagrants wandering here & there but all the depressing parking lots & deadzone empty land. The same is true of the areas around Elleven or the Grand Ave lofts, because until not long ago that hood was so desolate that even homeless ppl, esp pandhandlers looking for lots of handouts, avoided it.

They may not be as visible, but I can assure you that their presence is still felt in the minds of many people. I've heard people at the Music Center say they were frightened to leave the complex for that very reason, despite there not being much of a visible homeless presence.

[RAlossi]

I'm not specifically referring to skid row in particular. I'm referring more to downtown as a whole, and maybe South Park especially.

Downtown is huge, and each district has its own issues. Historic Core/Central City-East/ Artists' District has the homeless issue; South Park has the parking-lot-deadzone issue.

[bobcat]

I'm not specifically referring to skid row in particular. I'm referring more to downtown as a whole, and maybe South Park especially.

Downtown is huge, and each district has its own issues. Historic Core/Central City-East/ Artists' District has the homeless issue; South Park has the parking-lot-deadzone issue.

But how many people living in the burbs know there's a difference between skid row and south park? To them it's all the same thing.

[citywatch]

^^I don't agree. There are plenty of other places full of parkings lots that don't suffer from the negative perception of downtown.
It's not just parking lots per se that hurt the hood, it's the way they're inserted all over the place, either next to or across the street from nice devlpt, sort of like crabgrass in a lawn. However, I will say that if there were just parking lots & nice bldgs, and nothing else, meaning all the raunchy bldgs & ground floor hole in the walls (like the place next to the Golden gopher bar), then maybe the overall setup wouldn't seem so bad.


Years ago, when the area was even worse than it is now, for one reason or another I found myself in skid row after dark, and it was a positively frightening experience. I'll take parking lots over that any day.
Quite obviously the hoods around skid row are the ultimate disaster zone & the worst of the worst in DT. However, most of the new devlpt I'm focusing on is taking place several blocks to the west or the south. Those are the areas where I think the biggest sticking point is all the deadzones of parking lots & scroungy little bldgs.

[danparker276]

Demand for condos in downtown will continue to increase.
Ever try to go shopping on the weekends. I don't anymore and just buy on the internet, cus I don't wanna sit in traffic.
I don't see them expanding the freeways anytime soon.

[bobcat]

Again, we're talking about outsider's perceptions of downtown, not what we all know to be true. From where I stand I see the homeless situation being by far the biggest problem for the area as far as attracting residents and businesses.

[citywatch]

They may not be as visible, but I can assure you that their presence is still felt in the minds of many people. I've heard people at the Music Center say they were frightened to leave the complex for that very reason, despite there not being much of a visible homeless presence.

I've heard such descriptions about ppl being nervous in DT for a long time, & they make the hood seem even more like one of the parts of LA that ppl must avoid at all costs. However, I still think ppl's negative perceptions of crime & vagrants in DT are heightened by the raunchy, lifeless &/or abandoned condition of much of the hood, which is a problem that dates back over 40 to 50 yrs. But I will say that if DT's future is totally dependent on getting rid of the homeless problem, then the hood prob never will ever have a good reputation, meaning the burbs or hoods farther west will remain first choice for most locals.

[citywatch]

Here's another thing to consider: DT LA never has had a really good image. The hood's reputation was bad or suspect a long, long time ago, even before the homeless problem started to run amok. I'll say again that if the area's future is dependent on the city's ability to get rid of vagrants, which LA is reported as having lots more of than even the big city of NYC, then forget about it, because the politics will never allow that to happen, at least not to a really significant degree. For example, the mayor recently appointed a person to a commission that deals with the homeless issue, & she's known for being very permissive about vagrants & panhandlers.

[RAlossi]

All I know is, Santa Monica has now and has had in the past a huge homeless problem. And people still flock there. There are destinations. There are residences.

San Francisco has a huge homeless problem, and people go there. There are destinations. There are residences.

Downtown has a huge homeless problem, but they also have a smaller number of destinations (which is improving, obviously). Get rid of the parking lots and dark dead zones, and people will deal with the homeless problem.

[danparker276]

I think many of the homeless in DT LA will move to santa monica.
In a few years there will be cameras on every street and most buildings have 24 hour security patrols.
Downtown San Diego was cleaned up, LA will be a lot bigger and better.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^^I don't agree. There are plenty of other places full of parkings lots that don't suffer from the negative perception of downtown. Years ago, when the area was even worse than it is now, for one reason or another I found myself in skid row after dark, and it was a positively frightening experience. I'll take parking lots over that any day.


That's true! Try Portland, Oregon. There were definitely some parking lots in their downtown, but I felt stimulated still by just the beauty, lack of homeless, and plenty of things to do!

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

looks like we will be losing two more parking lots soon! i was just in DT LA and the Hanover lot has been fenced off as has 9th and olive (i think the fence was new) also, i saw the banner at Staples that said, coming in 2007 and it listed the ESPN Zone, all the restaurants and the Hotel.