Cathedral Hill [428 Sparks St] | 21f | Completed

[waterloowarrior]

http://dalhousiecommunityassociation.blogspot.com/2010/09/dca-minutes-draft-sept-1-2010.html

Cathedral Hill development. This is for the lots of land surrounding Christ Church Cathedral, ie Sparks, Bronson, Queen – most of a city block. DCA board met with proponent on July 21. Church proposes to demolish the 1960’s hall facing Sparks, and 2 houses facing Queen (but keeping and reusing the facades). They will keep Roper Hall, and the Archbishops residence facing west over Bronson. They propose a 20 storey condo tower running N/S through the block where the two houses are now; a new office building (low rise) where the 60’s Hall is; and a new office building of 20 floors on the existing church parking lot facing Sparks. Sparks may be dead ended at the Cathedral. Lots of underground parking, 200 year lease deal, preserved views for The Gardens condo but not others. Public meeting expected in the fall. Generally, we were pleased with the care and thought that went into the proposal.


Church august 15 newsletter
http://www.ottawa.anglican.ca/cathedral/excathedra/August_14_2010.pdf

PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT MOVING FORWARD — SLOWLY BUT STEADILY

Like the duck who seems motionless on
the surface while its feet paddle furiously
below, property development is moving
steadily forward for the Diocese and the
Cathedral in Joint Venture. Much is soon be
revealed from below the surface!

Having received approval for the proposed Agreement
in Principle with the Windmill Development
Group (http://www.windmilldevelopments.com/) last November from both the Diocesan
Council and Cathedral Vestry, negotiators for the
Joint Venture (JV) Property Development Committee
found it necessary to lock up some loose ends
that had not been clearly defined in the draft
Agreement. This was accomplished with Windmill
in late February, including several
improvements to the terms of lease. Windmill then
mobilized a project team to initiate project development.

On 02 June, City of Ottawa planners met the JV
Property Development Committee on site and
reviewed the proposed massing models as
prepared by the Windmill design team. This
productive exchange cleared the path for further
delivery of a site development plan, and completion
of building condition analysis, environmental
assessment and traffic analysis.

It is expected that Windmill will be ready to
present schematic design concepts to the Diocese
and the Cathedral in September and outline
further steps in the project delivery process.
Mission critical density seems to be achievable.

Concurrently, legal documentation has been
prepared to establish a not for profit foundation
to take title of the lands belonging to the Diocese
and the Cathedral for the purposes of development
and to receive revenues from the land lease.

___________________________
There will be a special meeting on Sunday, September
19, at 7 p.m. in Cathedral Hall, to hear a presentation
concerning the Diocesan/Cathedral Joint Venture
property development. We will be joined by members
of Diocesan Council.

In the past three months, Windmill Development Group
have gained considerable momentum with their design
team in advancing this project, including strong consensus
with City officials.

The Joint Venture Property Development Committee is
firmly committed to ensuring that both Diocesan and
Cathedral constituents are well informed with the project
as it proceeds through progressive stages of project
delivery, and in this context the Windmill Development
Group have requested an opportunity to present their
work to date in September, before the formal site development
application goes into the public domain. The
presentation will include work to date on programming,
zoning, massing, sightlines and environmental assessment.

This will also be an opportunity to report on the
status of the lease agreement which is now in its first
draft and under review by legal counsel.

[waterloowarrior]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/5151328814_3ced2c2c64_b.jpg

http://www.ottawa.anglican.ca/cathedral/excathedra/October_10_2010.pdf

Church Cathedral Ottawa has received its first look at what property development plans might entail. Executives from Windmill Development Group outlined the initial plans at a special meeting of parishioners and members of the Diocesan Council last month.

Windmill has worked extensively with the Joint Venture Property Development Committee, the City of Ottawa, heritage officials and an a r chitec tural review committee to arrive at a preliminary design which they anticipate will compliment the heritage nature of the site while
also taking into account its geography and other considerations such as seasonal differences in sunlight, wind and temperatures. (Please see Ex Cathedra, August 15, 2010).

“We are still at a very preliminary stage and there is a lot to figure out for the whole site,” Scott Demark, a partner and project manager with Windmill, said in an interview with Ex Cathedra. “The overall mass and the position of the buildings will likely not change but depending on the input we receive there could be changes to the overall look of the buildings themselves so we are far from having anything finalized in terms of the design.”

The initial site design includes two multi-storied buildings, one to the east and another to the west of the Cathedral and a smaller complex to sit on the present site of Cathedral Hall which will be comprised of town-house units.

The larger complex to the west of the Cathedral will be primarily residential while the one to the East will be primarily used for office space. The initial design also includes plans to convert Lauder Hall back to its orginial purpose as a meeting hall; while the parish offices may be moved into one of the multi-storey buildings .

Roper House will remain at its current location under the initial site plans.

“Our goal from the beginning has been to come up with a design that would integrate a beautiful old building like the Cathedral with a lot of new square footage without overpowering it,” Demark adds.

“Things like sun-pass have been very important design considerations as has the geology of the site, colours and building materials which all need to compliment the existing design of the Cathedral.”

Both the Diocesan Council and Cathedral Vestry approved an Agreement in Principle with Windmill to proceed with a development plan last November. (Please see Ex Cathedra, December 20, 2009). The final lease agreement with Windmill will be reviewed and voted on by parishioners and the Diocesan council at a special Vestry later this fall.

If Windmill gets the green light to proceed, the group hopes to see rezoning for the site in place by next spring and to have a fully mature design in place next summer

[AuxTown]

Wow, cool looking project! Let's hope this one gets the green light. I will anxiously await some higher quality and more detailed renderings.

[waterloowarrior]

Maria Cook article with a better render
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/entertainment/Christ+Church+Cathedral+gets+promised+land/3915157/story.html

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/entertainment/3916780.bin

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Oddly enough, I'm getting a Montreal-esque vibe from that concept drawing.

[Luker]

agreed as its an attempt at something artisticl; a poor attempt nonetheless. It's a terribly ugly stubby box on the exterior shell of our CBD, I really hope their is signifcant changes.

[cityguy]

It defiantly doesn't have a WQW factor.

[kwoldtimer]

I find the rendering of the office building particularly disappointing I wouldn't expect a stone, neo gothic tower, but something that relates more to the cathedral would not seem too much to expect, given the prominence of the location. Give me some slopes or (dare I hope) something other than a flat rooftop.

[kevinbottawa]

Except for the office building, I don't think it looks too bad. If you look at the original rendering above, the office building didn't look as boxy as the new one. I don't know why they changed it. With an office building, condo and commercial space it might bring some life to the area (and it will block some of those older buildings). If that condo is the first thing I see when I drive into the CBD from Lebreton or the Portage Bridge I'd be happy.

[umbria27]

I find the rendering of the office building particularly disappointing I wouldn't expect a stone, neo gothic tower, but something that relates more to the cathedral would not seem too much to expect, given the prominence of the location. Give me some slopes or (dare I hope) something other than a flat rooftop.

Agreed, this is bland beyond belief. This site deserves more. It's not your regular infill. Christ Church cathedral is an important Ottawa landmark, you might say a national one. (Lester B. Pearson's state funeral was held here). At the other end of Wellington Safdie is riffing on neo gothic in glass with the National Gallery. There must be hundreds of architects out there waiting for a similar commission.

[kwoldtimer]

Agreed, this is bland beyond belief. This site deserves more. It's not your regular infill. Christ Church cathedral is an important Ottawa landmark, you might say a national one. (Lester B. Pearson's state funeral was held here). At the other end of Wellington Safdie is riffing on neo gothic in glass with the National Gallery. There must be hundreds of architects out there waiting for a similar commission.

In my dreams, nothing would get built north of the Queensway that was not the outcome of a national design competition - I like to imagine what Centretown could have looked like every time I walk past its dreary urban storage barns for civil servants (well, OK, the new EDC tower is not terrible...).

[blackjagger]

Anyone going to the developer’s presentation tonight? I believe it’s at 7:00 at the church. There are supposed to be new display boards and more details about the buildings.

Cheers,
Josh

[Ottawan]

I'd definitely go, but sadly I'm out of town at the moment... If you make it out, please report back!

[Harley613]

i really hope that rendering is proof-of-concept from HOK, nothing to do with any real designs. the whole thing is horrible.

THEY CAN'T MESS THIS UP. this is a huge opportunity to cover up some really nasty old blocks on the western approach of the parkway.
http://i.imgur.com/csuA3.jpg

[blackjagger]

Its appears the scope has change again for this development. 12 storey office tower and 15-17 Storey residential tower. I didn't make it out to the presentation so I hope some photos or slides will find their way here.

Cheers,
Josh

[Luker]

Ugh 150 elgin, now this, prominent locations getting the rinky dinky little town treatment.. Bahh, the disapointment will never end in this town!

[Harley613]

seriously. my love/hate relationship with ottawa continues unabated....

[DanOttTor]

Those are just the ugliest buildings proposed at the moment.

[waterloowarrior]

rezoning application
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__7BL9GQ

[McC]

rezoning application
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__7BL9GQ

might need to adjust the title: "Amendment requested for 12-storey office and 24-storey residential building"

[reidjr]

might need to adjust the title: "Amendment requested for 12-storey office and 24-storey residential building"

Is that offical now.

[Davis137]

As I mentioned before, I think this would be a great area for buildings of this size and height, as they'd bridge the gap between the Lebreton Flats redevelopment, and the Place De Ville towers up on the hill...

[waterloowarrior]

some revised elevations/sections/site plan have been posted on the application page, showing the 24 storey building
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__7BL9GQ

[blackjagger]

some revised elevations/sections/site plan have been posted on the application page, showing the 24 storey building
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__7BL9GQ

That is progress. I like the curtain wall and roof top cap. The thinner Condo tower looks great. I still want to see more effort on the office tower, maybe a set back or two. It will be interesting to see the materials used, there is alot of take about stone to be similar to the church.

Cheers,
Josh

[MountainView]

Designers working to respect Christ Church Cathedral heritage

Concerns highrise may dwarf century-old cathedral

By Maria Cook, The Ottawa Citizen May 2, 2011

Full article here:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Designers+working+respect+Christ+Church+Cathedral+heritage/4707332/story.html

Christ Church Cathedral occupies a spectacular and visible site on the escarpment west of Parliament Hill, overlooking the Ottawa River. The distinctive stone building, flanked by its soaring bell tower, is seen in dramatic silhouette above the Garden of the Provinces.

The Anglican cathedral plans to develop the land surrounding the 138-year-old building to generate income for its ministries.

A proposal for a 21-storey condominium tower, a row of townhouses and a 12-storey office building goes to the City of Ottawa planning committee May 9 and council on May 11 for approval. There are about 130 residential units.

The design aims to transform a patchwork of parking lots and historic structures into a coherent urban block that integrates contemporary buildings with the cathedral.

“We see the cathedral as being the really unique element,” says architect Gordon Stratford, of HOK Toronto. “We didn’t want anything that would fight with the building. We wanted to respect and work with the heritage on the site.”

Images of the project show muted colours, pedestrian spaces, and lots of trees and plants. The forms are simple and the contemporary materials are intended to be in harmony with the old brick and stone buildings.

The diocese and cathedral have a deal with Windmill Development Group of Ottawa for a 220,000-square-foot development on 35,000 square feet of leased land.

The site is bounded by Bronson Street to the west, St. Peter’s Lutheran Church to the east, Sparks Street to the south and Queen Street to the north. The backdrop to the church is a wall of residential high-rises.

The developer is asking for a zoning amendment for a height increase. The current zoning is for seven to eight storeys. If approved, the condo tower would be the highest building on the block, but not in the area.

Cathedral Hill is a designated heritage district; new buildings are supposed to be sensitive and complementary.

An earlier design showed a boxier 15-storey residential building. Now it is 21 storeys plus a mechanical floor. The top two storeys are penthouse units set back from the rest of the tower to shape the top and respect protected sightlines related to Parliament Hill.

The designers suggest that a taller, more slender tower can better address urban design issues on the site, compared with a shorter building of the same interior size.

It means that the footprint of the tower at ground level is smaller, permitting courtyards and pedestrian passages. It also reduces the amount of view blocked for neighbours across the street.

Roper House, a former lumber baron’s mansion that serves as the bishop’s office, is preserved. So is Lauder Hall, built in 1902 and housing church offices and choir space. The plan includes partial retention of two semi-detached houses on Queen Street built in the 1800s.

The key to unlocking the potential of the site while keeping the houses is removal of the 1950s Cathedral Hall facing Sparks Street, and construction of a new parish hall in the centre of the site.

This permits the designers to slip a narrow tower behind Roper House and put lower-scaled townhouses where the church hall used to be.

The townhouses are a key element in the urban design strategy. They provide a lower building along Sparks Street to make a more pedestrian-friendly streetscape and use stone to relate to the older buildings. The townhouses match Roper House in scale at its west end while deferring to the cathedral to the east.

The condo tower rises from behind the townhouses. Designed with a curve, it will feature opaque and transparent glass.

“This will be a very well-mannered building,” says Stratford. “We want to make sure it’s interesting but subtle enough to serve as a quiet backdrop to the cathedral.”

Stratford said the scheme will allow people to appreciate the site’s history. “You will all of a sudden take notice of the cathedral again,” he said.

“You will come into closer contact with the cathedral than you do now.”

The cathedral will be framed by new buildings and have a new plaza in front. There will be new pedestrian routes between Sparks and Queen. The townhouses are set back more than the present church hall so the cathedral is more visible.

The office building is pushed back further than in an earlier scheme to allow a clear view from St. Peter’s to the cathedral.

A new entrance designed as a glass pavilion “gives the cathedral some much-needed breathing space, and allows it to be more fully appreciated as a significant landmark,” says Stratford. “Glass has been purposely selected to provide an understated backdrop to the beautiful detailing and rusticated stone.”

The proponents worked closely with the city’s new urban design review panel, a volunteer advisory group of architects, urban designers and landscape architects.

Windmill’s chief executive Jonathan Westeinde praised them for “valuable insight” and said they helped make the case with city planners for a taller building.

The panel shifted the discussion from compliance with setbacks and height limits to design, pedestrian experience and continuity of streetscape.

“It was a real factor in getting the same amount of density in a more esthetically pleasing form,“ says Westeinde. “The planning department had always stipulated not going higher than 15 storeys. The design review panel was able to provide the influence to get past the height barriers.”

Otherwise, he says, they would have had no choice but to build a rectangular box. The pair of semi-detached houses are being preserved in exchange.

“Because the site is so significant we felt there really needed to be some serious critiquing of any proposal,” said panel chair David Leinster, a Toronto landscape architect.

“The new architecture should recede,” he said. “We wanted to keep the footprint as small as we could. We wanted to make sure the spire was maintained as a dominant vertical element. We wanted the places where the public can wander to be very special.”

The panel supports the cathedral’s efforts to keep going. “In Toronto, we’ve seen magnificent churches and cathedrals being turned into condos,” he said. “We didn’t want to see something like that happen.”

Still, community associations express concern about size.

“While I appreciate that the condo building has got thinner it has also got taller, and it now dwarfs the cathedral spire,” says Eric Darwin, president of the Dalhousie Community Association. “The new condo, taller than the rest of the block, will set a new precedent for the next condo.”

Adds Charles Akben-Marchand, president of the Centretown Citizens Community Association: “The office building is still very close to the spire of the church. One of our concerns was the addition of office development west of Lyon, which was supposed to remain residential.”

Both towers are to be built to state-of-the art environmental standards, at least LEED platinum. The original idea for the office building was to be a hub for environmental organizations.

“We’re not giving up on that concept, but most of the organizations we started with are in deep financial trouble,” says Westeinde.

Meanwhile, St. Peter’s Lutheran Church is in talks with the developer.

“Our issues include building setback from the east side adjacent to our church to protect our views as much as possible, and the potential loss of our parking spaces adjacent to the west side of our church,” said spokesman Bruce Wolfgram. “We are hopeful that we will all come to an agreeable solution.”

Windmill expects to start marketing the condos in June and start construction next winter to open in spring 2013.

Units are expected to start at about $270,000 with no prices yet on the penthouses.


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/4707333.bin?size=620x400

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/4707334.bin?size=620x400

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/4707335.bin?size=620x400

[McC]

The panel shifted the discussion from compliance with setbacks and height limits to design, pedestrian experience and continuity of streetscape... “The planning department had always stipulated not going higher than 15 storeys. The design review panel was able to provide the influence to get past the height barriers.”

nice to hear there was some focus on what really matters. like the look of the artist's conceptions. a good news story IMO.

[MountainView]

I assume everyone thinks this will all be approved come May 11th ?

[S-Man]

I certainly hope so. It's a good layout in terms of the site plan, but we all know what the usual outcry will be. I just don't want to see another stunning location graced with a stumpy Ottawa box due to the complaints of residents.

[Davis137]

Ok, if the buildings that are approved have nice character lines, and are a stark contrast to the stumpy boxes of old, then this will be an awesome project to watch when it gets underway!

[waterloowarrior]

staff reports

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/pec/2011/05-10/02%20-%20ACS2011-ICS-PGM-0089-Cathedral%20Hill.htm

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/pec/2011/05-10/03%20-%20ACS2011-ICS-PGM-0101.htm

[S-Man]

Go figure - Diane Holmes hates it. She would have campaigned against 4 storeys, I'm sure. And what the hell is 'inhumanely-scaled, really? What does 'human scale' have to do with buildings? Is it going to attack people? I'm sick of this weird, scary sounding language surrounding developments. It looks good, makes use of the site, respects the church as best it can (but not as much as if it were not there at all), but as usual, this is Ottawa. In other words, height and setbacks and measurements rules all, design, appearance, and function be damned. No wonder we have so many ugly buildings in this city - people see in numbers and rules, not shapes and colours.
Holmes needs to go. She's the worst obstructionist ever. Yet she wants to bring life and excitement back to downtown. Presumably without bringing in more people, buildings, or noise.

[Dundas]

Isnt she pushing 90? by the time its built maybe she ll be gone .

[AuxTown]

The problem is that nobody ever runs against her who has a chance of winning. I still can't believe how many people voted for her last election. I guess there's still a lot of old cranks in Centretown.

[kwoldtimer]

I wish Ottawa could get beyond its strange relationship with height and "scale" and see this site as an opportunity to require the developer to come up with some truly world class design (or at least a showcase for Canadian design). The condo tower shown in the render is not terrible, although it will not improve if it loses floors in the usual Ottawa fashion, and the office building seems to me just another Centretown box. I would wish for more for this site, not more of the same.

[MountainView]

Cathedral Hill project OK’d by heritage advisory committee

Proposal now goes to city planning

By MEGHAN HURLEY, The Ottawa Citizen May 6, 2011

Link to Article:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Cathedral+Hill+project+heritage+advisory+committee/4736008/story.html?cid=megadrop_story

OTTAWA — A proposal to build a 21-storey condominium tower, a row of townhouses and a 12-storey office building around the Christ Church Cathedral will move ahead to the city’s planning committee after it was approved by the Ottawa Built Heritage Advisory Committee on Thursday night.

The committee voted in favour of the proposal going to the City of Ottawa planning committee May 9 and then to council on May 11 for approval.

The Anglican cathedral plans to develop the land surrounding the 138-year-old building to generate income for its ministries.

The design aims to transform a patchwork of parking lots and historic structures into a coherent urban block that integrates contemporary buildings with the cathedral.

The diocese and cathedral have a deal with Windmill Development Group of Ottawa for a 220,000-square foot development on 35,000 square feet of leased land.

The site is bounded by Bronson Street to the west, St. Peter’s Lutheran Church to the east, Sparks Street to the south and Queen Street to the north.

The backdrop to the church is a wall of residential high-rises.

Cathedral Hill is a designated heritage district, and new buildings are supposed to be sensitive and complementary.

An earlier design showed a boxier, 15-storey residential building. Now it is 21 storeys plus a mechanical floor. The top two storeys are penthouse units set back from the rest of the tower to shape the top and to respect protected sightlines related to Parliament Hill.

The designers suggest that a taller, more slender tower can better address urban design issues on the site, compared with a shorter building of the same interior size.

However, community associations have expressed concern about the size of the proposed development.

“Normally, a neighbourhood would end tapering down, and this would do the opposite. It tapers up,” said Charles Akben-Marchand, president of the Centretown Citizens Community Association.

“You can see how the office building really crowds the steeple of the church.”

The keys to unlocking the potential of the site while keeping the houses are removal of the 1950s Cathedral Hall facing Sparks Street and construction of a new parish hall in the centre of the site.

That allows the designers to slip a narrow tower behind Roper House and put ­lower­-scaled townhouses where the church hall was.

The townhouses are key elements in the urban design strategy. They provide a lower building along Sparks Street to make a more pedestrian-friendly streetscape and use stone to relate to the older buildings. The townhouses match Roper House in scale at its west end while deferring to the cathedral to the east.

The cathedral will be framed by new buildings and have a new plaza in front. There will be new pedestrian routes between Sparks and Queen. The townhouses are set back more than the present church hall so the cathedral is more visible.

The office building is pushed back further than in an earlier scheme to allow a clear view from St. Peter’s to the cathedral.




Definitely good news here!

“You can see how the office building really crowds the steeple of the church.” - This person should go see what a lot of the churches in Montreal look like!! Albeit, their buildings are somewhat taller than Ottawa's.

[Luker]

- This person should go see what a lot of the churches in Montreal look like!! Albeit, their buildings are somewhat taller than Ottawa's. -

Well, they did revolt against the church to enhance and improve their economic, social, and political standing. Which was by all accounts seriously detrimental and in poor standing compared to the rest of the western world. Thus it's not suprised that they had no problem building their 'new big shinny symbols of power' over the church.

Furthermore,in the mid 20th century it was much easier to 'swindle' the city councils and residents in order to build taller buildings over heritage buildings (and dwarf churches and other historical buildings' for 'economic enhancement and revitalization'. This just doesn't simply happen the way it used.

That being said I do love this project and give it a solid 9/10.

[S-Man]

The obligatory bleeding-heart whiner article in the Citizen today; Someone who bought a high-rise condo 20 years ago across from the site and is now complaining about her right to the killer view. Yes, and her property values, too. And yet again: "it's the community's land, not the church's".
Amazing that they send a reporter out every time someone picks up the phone to complain about their annoyance of an unavoidable reality of urban living.Which is every single day.
Same edition: Glebe resident annoyed that buses will be going down her street due to Bank Street reconstruction. Judging by the responses, people are getting pretty sick and tired of this constant complaining over nothing. I can think of bigger issues than a downtown view or a bus on a street, but hey, when you're entitled, you're entitled.
The Citizen needs to stop being the voicepiece for downtown whiners.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Development+will+destroy+view+lower+resale+value/4748500/story.html

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Glebe+residents+worried+about+reroutes/4748431/story.html?cid=megadrop_story

[reidjr]

The obligatory bleeding-heart whiner article in the Citizen today; Someone who bought a high-rise condo 20 years ago across from the site and is now complaining about her right to the killer view. Yes, and her property values, too. And yet again: "it's the community's land, not the church's".
Amazing that they send a reporter out every time someone picks up the phone to complain about their annoyance of an unavoidable reality of urban living.Which is every single day.
Same edition: Glebe resident annoyed that buses will be going down her street due to Bank Street reconstruction. Judging by the responses, people are getting pretty sick and tired of this constant complaining over nothing. I can think of bigger issues than a downtown view or a bus on a street, but hey, when you're entitled, you're entitled.
The Citizen needs to stop being the voicepiece for downtown whiners.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Development+will+destroy+view+lower+resale+value/4748500/story.html

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Glebe+residents+worried+about+reroutes/4748431/story.html?cid=megadrop_story

There seems to be this mind set downtown by some noise and traffic do not belong downtown and it seems more and more are complaining.As for the comments its the communitys land the probleam more or less is people say that over and over this is our land yet if asked if they would support paying so much to buy the land oh now we should not do that just look at the beaver pond as a exzample.

[S-Man]

Well, there's now a special interest group dedicated to getting that bus off that particular street (something like 'Stop The Bus Ottawa' or something similarly ridiculous). The reasoning is that buses kill children and have no part in downtown neighbourhoods, thus the Glebe bus should bypass the Glebe on its current route. No mention of whether people in the Glebe might actually want to catch that bus inside their community, but it's clear public transit is unwanted and unused by the people complaining.
As for the cathedral site, one commenter wants the condo owners to sue the city for 'breach of trust', as if there's been an unspoken rule in Ottawa for decades that all development will happen in the suburbs and no change will ever occur downtown.
It seems whenever one of these people encounters the position that 'intensification is necessary', they inevitably come back with the assertion that the city is greedy for allowing development downtown, that this is an entirely new sort of problem that never happened in the past (though I question how the existing tall buildings got there), and that their rights are being trampled on.

I have to wonder how this mindset was nurtured and reinforced? The logical person in me says they must realize that this is not how any municipality operates, that these so-called 'rights' can't logically exist in educated people's minds, yet here we are listening to this, again and again. What is going on here?

[kwoldtimer]

From a different tragedy:

"... it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

Buildings will be built, buses will run and folks will fume and lobby. All same old, same old.

[reidjr]

Well, there's now a special interest group dedicated to getting that bus off that particular street (something like 'Stop The Bus Ottawa' or something similarly ridiculous). The reasoning is that buses kill children and have no part in downtown neighbourhoods, thus the Glebe bus should bypass the Glebe on its current route. No mention of whether people in the Glebe might actually want to catch that bus inside their community, but it's clear public transit is unwanted and unused by the people complaining.
As for the cathedral site, one commenter wants the condo owners to sue the city for 'breach of trust', as if there's been an unspoken rule in Ottawa for decades that all development will happen in the suburbs and no change will ever occur downtown.
It seems whenever one of these people encounters the position that 'intensification is necessary', they inevitably come back with the assertion that the city is greedy for allowing development downtown, that this is an entirely new sort of problem that never happened in the past (though I question how the existing tall buildings got there), and that their rights are being trampled on.

I have to wonder how this mindset was nurtured and reinforced? The logical person in me says they must realize that this is not how any municipality operates, that these so-called 'rights' can't logically exist in educated people's minds, yet here we are listening to this, again and again. What is going on here?

I think part of it is this there is a fair amount of devlopement going on now and has in the past and the near future some may think there is to much.

[gjhall]

Passed by committee today, council tomorrow.

[ThaLoveDocta]

Passed by committee today, council tomorrow.

Full Steam Ahead!!!!!!!:cheers:


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Cathedral+Hill+project+Overbrook+complex+sail+through+city+council/4765041/story.html

OTTAWA — After an hour of ceremonial events and reports, city council whipped through its agenda Wednesday morning.

The only issue that was discussed at all was the proposed development on Cathedral Hill, which Councillor Diane Holmes argued against. She represents the area and was the only councillor to dissent on the issue.

That means the proposal to construct a 21-storey condominium tower, a row of four townhouses and a 12-storey office building around Christ Church Cathedral at the west end of Sparks Street will go ahead. The plan was also approved last week by the Ottawa Built Heritage Advisory Committee.

For the spot where the condo building will be built, the old zoning allowed for heights of 20 metres. The new zoning allows a maximum height of 73.6 metres. The development has been opposed not only by Holmes, but also by neighbouring residents.

The site is bounded by Bronson Avenue to the west, St. Peter’s Lutheran Church to the east, Sparks Street to the north and Queen Street to the south. Christ Church owns all the property except St. Peter’s and three Queen Anne revival houses on Queen Street.

Other measures that were carried included waiving the patio fees for Feleena’s restaurant in the Glebe this summer as the Bank Street reconstruction is expected to hurt business in the area. Approved at the transportation committee, the issue was expanded into charging Preston Street businesses lower patio fees as well, to help compensate them for the recently concluded renovation of the street there.

City staff is now preparing a report looking at how Ottawa’s fees charged for patios that encroach on city property compare with fees from across the country.

Also carried was a proposed plan for a new apartment complex in Overbrook, which was also opposed by neighbouring residents.

Groupe Lépine plans to develop a U-shaped building at 127 Presland Rd., with the entrance to the complex directly off Vanier Parkway. It would replace three buildings on the site that were once owned by Les Soeurs Franciscaines Missionaires de Marie de l’Ontario, an order of Catholic nuns.

But under an amendment moved by Councillor Peter Clark — which was approved by council immediately — some of the details of the project have changed. The complex will contain a maximum of 299 units, instead of the planned 307. Also, it appears there will be more height on the Vanier Parkway side of the development, and less on the side that abuts to a residential neighbourhood — now five storeys instead of the previous nine.

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Cathedral+Hill+project+Overbrook+complex+sail+through+city+council/4765041/story.html#ixzz1M4FQcufT



Bold added by me.

[reidjr]

I find it amazing some who live in the area said this is a massive tower its only 21 floors thats not massive by any means.

[MountainView]

This is great news!

Any idea when the buildings will begin to be built? Or will they wait a while to confirm some tenants for the office building and condo. Also do you all think that they will both be constructed simultaneously or one at a time, if so which one first? I would like to see the entire site built at once!

[reidjr]

This is great news!

Any idea when the buildings will begin to be built? Or will they wait a while to confirm some tenants for the office building and condo. Also do you all think that they will both be constructed simultaneously or one at a time, if so which one first? I would like to see the entire site built at once!

From my understanding they will market both buildings this summer and start construction next winter with a target date of spring 2013 for the opening.I agree its great news this just adds to the amount of projects such as the claridge plaza 3 and 4 the tribbica and the meritt and of course the soho and re i think its going to be a very exciting all around.

[gjhall]

This is great news!

Any idea when the buildings will begin to be built? Or will they wait a while to confirm some tenants for the office building and condo. Also do you all think that they will both be constructed simultaneously or one at a time, if so which one first? I would like to see the entire site built at once!

I know for the office that they are involved in an RFP process for a "high profile tenant" which is why the city sped up the approval process. As for the condos, these will be a really easy sell with their sweeping views, etc.

[reidjr]

I know for the office that they are involved in an RFP process for a "high profile tenant" which is why the city sped up the approval process. As for the condos, these will be a really easy sell with their sweeping views, etc.

I think aslo beeing real close to the chruch may be a real big appeal for some.

[Fraser]

Passed at Council - the 2 townhomes have been changed to 4.

[Harley613]

this is EXCELLENT news!!! i LOVE it when Dianne Holmes loses a battle.

oh yeah, the buildings will be nice and whatnot as well

[S-Man]

I was bowled over when she stated she liked the idea, but the height was a problem. Her aversion to anything tall goes well in line with the Freudian complex I mentioned in some other post. Must be the 1970s/feminist/socialist outlook that is still festering in Ottawa (including Ottawa U).

Hope this thing gets built soon - those Soviet grey towers can't be covered up soon enough!

[Fraser]

I was bowled over when she stated she liked the idea, but the height was a problem. Her aversion to anything tall goes well in line with the Freudian complex I mentioned in some other post. Must be the 1970s/feminist/socialist outlook that is still festering in Ottawa (including Ottawa U).

Hope this thing gets built soon - those Soviet grey towers can't be covered up soon enough!

Quite an interesting debate occurred between Councillors Holmes and Hume over this development. Hume essentially argued that we need to ditch our aversion to height limits in an effort to get sleeker buildings and better streetscaping. By forcing developers to go vertical, the building isn't pushed to the very reaches of the site area, so there's a better connection between the building and the street, allowing for more 'green space' and better pedestrian accessibility, rather than 8-storey, stumpy, uniform boxes.

This Council is going to be far more open to better design / greater height than the previous Council(s). When it comes to stunting the height of buildings, I think Holmes is now a lone voice around the table. Developers will catch on, but it will be a gradual process.

[kwoldtimer]

The Soho Italia proposal suggests that developers may already have got it. I would expect them to be two steps ahead of city council, not behind.

[Fraser]

Sorry, I meant that a greater frequency of taller, denser buildings will be a gradual process, not that it will take the developers a while to clue in. Council will want to ease into it, though.

[S-Man]

Hmmm...maybe Diane should take a walk in her own neighbourhood and see what height limits did for greenspace, ground-level interaction, architecture, etc in Centretown over the last 40 years. Stumpy boxes from property line to property line with no gaps in between. Sure, there's no sun or grass and the streetscape is cold and uninviting...but at least the buildings aren't tall!

[Davis137]

You guys provide me with pure entertainment with your comments about council! Keep it coming!

[S-Man]

There's no shortage of fodder on that front, I'm afraid.

I actually walked past this site today (Albert to Bronson, up to Sparks, and through the Garden of the Provinces). A nice place that - even with this development - will keep its church (which will now be financially sustainable), and continue to have greenspace in the form of the garden of the provinces and the park at the end of Sparks on the cliff overlooking the Flats. Really, just some parking lots are being used, nothing heritage or green. The place is a dead zone at any hour, may as well make use of the available space.
I don't see anything being destroyed besides a bunch of condo owners' views.

[AuxTown]

People are going to say that this project takes away from the herritage character of the church, but that was done 15-20 years ago when all the buildings (ugly ones I might add) were built right behind it. At least we have a chance that these towers will be made with decent materials and may actually emphasize the beauty of the church rather than taking away from it. Put a shovel in the ground before the Friends of [insert NIMBY plight here] start to organize.

[S-Man]

'Friends of the Hill' I would have to imagine...

Though really, its actually 'Friend of my Self-Interests'

[MountainView]

They have revised the look to the 12-story office tower... not too shabby in my opinion, I like the curve but I would need to see a better rendering to formulate my full opinion. Looks kind of strange that close to the church though.
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa/5191985.bin?size=620x400
You can read the article in the Citizen here:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa/fa%C3%A7ade+enhances+Cathedral+Hill+development+city/5189996/story.html

[S-Man]

Curve or no curve, it's another square glass office box. The 80s are over - I would have expected something a little more...complimentary - given the site's location next to a church.
That said, the contrast between historic and modern sure makes the church stand out - not sure if that was the intention.

[Uhuniau]

Curve or no curve, it's another square glass office box. The 80s are over - I would have expected something a little more...complimentary - given the site's location next to a church.
That said, the contrast between historic and modern sure makes the church stand out - not sure if that was the intention.

What's with the windowlessness of the cathedral-facing wall? Blech. Another building that turns its ass to its surroundings. Is it in the local code that they HAVE to do that or something?

[Harley613]

horrible. absolutely horrible. lebreton flats and cathedral hill are turning into a write-off...terrible architecture all around.

it should look like THIS!!!!
http://fineartamerica.com/images-medium/vancouver-skyline-alasdair-turner.jpg

[reidjr]

Harley613
Its not so much of a matter of bad architecture it has more to do is some are aginst taller buildings when you have people up set over a 12 floor building the chance a 50 floor building would go over well is slim to none.

[S-Man]

Hopefully the design will change. At least it's the shorter building further from the cliff edge, but still.....

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

It's ugly as hell. I think I prefer the old design...

[citizen j]

It's so demolishable circa 2027. Okay, you're right, 2037.

[Kitchissippi]

Ugly beyond belief! the new design is so insensitive to its context. It is so obvious that whatever building goes here needs a strong horizontal 2 or 3 storey podium so that the church steeple remains a vertical focal point despite a higher building beside it.

[citizen j]

Ugly beyond belief! the new design is so insensitive to its context. It is so obvious that whatever building goes here needs a strong horizontal 2 or 3 storey podium so that the church steeple remains a vertical focal point despite a higher building beside it.

Could you maybe forward this comment to the architects? It seems they skipped the class on context.

[Uhuniau]

Could you maybe forward this comment to the architects? It seems they skipped the class on context.

But look! It's glass! Reflective! Shiny!

[citizen j]

But look! It's glass! Reflective! Shiny!

Like Bauhaus turned into crack. ... Ooooo, shiny... new... must do whatever's necessary to get my next hit of lazy, sparkly International Modernism... Plus, this one's new and improved; it has a curve, which means it's better, and hard to draw.

I must say, though, that it's better than the last try. But that's not saying much.

[Uhuniau]

Like Bauhaus turned into crack. ... Ooooo, shiny... new... must do whatever's necessary to get my next hit of lazy, sparkly International Modernism... Plus, this one's new and improved; it has a curve, which means it's better, and hard to draw.

I must say, though, that it's better than the last try. But that's not saying much.

Right, I forgot! Curvy! And setty-backy! Almost all the latest design fads rolled into one!

[waterloowarrior]

lots of updated drawings in the city staff report
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/pec/2011/08-15/5%20-%20ACS2011-ICS-PGM-0139%20-%20Application%20for%20New%20Construction%20at%20412%20Sparks%20Street.htm

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/pec/2011/08-15/5%20-%20ACS2011-ICS-PGM-0139%20-%20Application%20for%20New%20Construction%20at%20412%20Sparks%20Street_files/image050.jpg

[S-Man]

Well, it would be something vaguely interesting in any other place, but here it still looks out of place. Frankly, I'm not sure what wouldn't - may art deco or something like that.

[Kitchissippi]

Since they practically own the whole block, I think they should consider shuffling buildings around and move the heritage buildings to the Sparks Street side (maybe on top of underground parking) and consolidate the developable land on the Queen Street side. This would allow those Queen Anne style houses to be beside the church — not only would they be more appropriate in scale, they could also be better appreciated from the Garden of the Provinces. With most of the Queen Street frontage free, maybe they could be allowed to build something much taller.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

New concepts are still fugly.

[citizen j]

Well, it would be something vaguely interesting in any other place, but here it still looks out of place. Frankly, I'm not sure what wouldn't - may art deco or something like that.

Agreed. It would look better on, say, one of the university campuses... or Kanata... or Kemptville.

[Uhuniau]

Agreed. It would look better on, say, one of the university campuses... or Kanata... or Kemptville.

In order for it to be a net improvement at Carleton, you'd have to tear something else down. What a vile campus that is.

[Harley613]

In order for it to be a net improvement at Carleton, you'd have to tear something else down. What a vile campus that is.

and the irony is that it has one of the most beautiful properties for a university campus in the world.

[Uhuniau]

and the irony is that it has one of the most beautiful properties for a university campus in the world.

Really, though! And they have the arkytekt school, exposing young minds to such dreadful, dismal, brutalistic surroundings.

On the other hand, some of the ugliness has to be reaching end of useful life in the next few decades, so maybe there's hope.

[amanfromnowhere]

their web site is up www.cathedralhill.ca (http://www.cathedralhill.ca/) but with old drawing

[jitterbug]

The new design looks very much like the PSAC building in Centretown, which I believe was built in the 1970s. This is hardly contemporary design and will do nothing for that area of downtown, to say nothing of Ottawa's well deserved reputation as a cultural backwater. Shameful.

[Ottawan]

The new design looks very much like the PSAC building in Centretown, which I believe was built in the 1970s. This is hardly contemporary design and will do nothing for that area of downtown, to say nothing of Ottawa's well deserved reputation as a cultural backwater. Shameful.

You know, I've been keeping silent on this so far, but feel that I really need to stand up for this poor building. I actually really like the design. I think it's appropriate for the site, which isn't the place for something flashy that would detract from the heritage. I think it has sufficient detailing (the curve, the central 'cut out' that is visible through the glass facade; the way even the sides are designed to look onto the river) to overcome the 'boxishness' that plagues so much of Ottawa.

I am not saying that this is the pinacle of architectural design, but it is definitely a good building, one which will have sweeping views of the river, cover up some of the worse-looking buildings behind it when looking up from the Flats or the river, with a pleasant 'international' style that complements the nearby National Library and Archives building.

I do feel that materials could make or break the ultimate effect of this building, but Windmill did not cheap out on the GCTC building, so I am optimistic about the end result.

[amanfromnowhere]

You know, I've been keeping silent on this so far, but feel that I really need to stand up for this poor building. I actually really like the design. I think it's appropriate for the site, which isn't the place for something flashy that would detract from the heritage. I think it has sufficient detailing (the curve, the central 'cut out' that is visible through the glass facade; the way even the sides are designed to look onto the river) to overcome the 'boxishness' that plagues so much of Ottawa.

I am not saying that this is the pinacle of architectural design, but it is definitely a good building, one which will have sweeping views of the river, cover up some of the worse-looking buildings behind it when looking up from the Flats or the river, with a pleasant 'international' style that complements the nearby National Library and Archives building.

I do feel that materials could make or break the ultimate effect of this building, but Windmill did not cheap out on the GCTC building, so I am optimistic about the end result.

I do agree with you... Looking at other Windmill's projects (Dockside Green
in Victoria for example) I am pretty sure that this project will be excellent addition for this area keeping overall balance

[Uhuniau]

The new design looks very much like the PSAC building in Centretown, which I believe was built in the 1970s. This is hardly contemporary design and will do nothing for that area of downtown, to say nothing of Ottawa's well deserved reputation as a cultural backwater. Shameful.

I am trying, and failing, to see the similarity to the PSAC building.

What is the similarity? Some rounded edges?

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Dear Lord, why do these designs just get uglier?!

Screw it, let's give this one to Charlesfort; something tells me they'd do well on this project.

[m0nkyman]

I too am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Windmill, something I wouldn't do if this was Claridge....

[Badlands]

Dear Lord, why do these designs just get uglier?!


I thought all skyscrapers were pretty. Why is this one uglier?

[waterloowarrior]

website's been updated
http://www.cathedralhill.ca

http://www.cathedralhill.ca/_images/content/cathedralhill-three-views.jpg

[rakerman]

It's interesting they've done a map showing walking distances (or if you prefer the trendy term "walksheds")

http://www.cathedralhill.ca/_pdfs/cathedral-hill-location-map.pdf

[Uhuniau]

It's interesting they've done a map showing walking distances (or if you prefer the trendy term "walksheds")

http://www.cathedralhill.ca/_pdfs/cathedral-hill-location-map.pdf

Walk radiuses. True walking distances or "sheds" are done with a ruler, not a compass.

[McC]

Walk radiuses. True walking distances or "sheds" are done with a ruler, not a compass.

"radii" if you're correcting people.

[Uhuniau]

"radii" if you're correcting people.

Meh. Only if you'd also rather have a Pepsus rather than a Coke. :)

[kwoldtimer]

Shouldn't that be "rather have Pepses than Cokes"? :jester:

[Uhuniau]

Shouldn't that be "rather have Pepses than Cokes"? :jester:

Second declension:

Singular

n. Pepsus
g. Pepsi
d. Pepso
a. Pepsum
ab. Pepso
l. Pepsi
v. Pepse

Plural

n. Pepsi
g. Pepsorum
d. Pepsis
a. Pepsos
ab. Pepsis
l. Pepsis
v. Pepsi

[Ottawan]

Whoever drew those radii is a VERY slow walker.

[citizen j]

Second declension:

Singular

n. Pepsus
g. Pepsi
d. Pepso
a. Pepsum
ab. Pepso
l. Pepsi
v. Pepse

Plural

n. Pepsi
g. Pepsorum
d. Pepsis
a. Pepsos
ab. Pepsis
l. Pepsis
v. Pepsi

O Pepse, o mores.
What were we talking about? Oh yeah, the map. It certainly reveals who they think their target market is, given the prominence of the OC Transpo and cycling icons. Although, I'm curious to know what transit route it is they're highlighting; the Transitway seems to split at -- what? Churchill? Do they have some inside info about the route of the Western LRT extension?

[Uhuniau]

Whoever drew those radii is a VERY slow walker.

Really though! Either that, or they have to put up with a lot of sidewalk-blocking waddling idiots.

[rodionx]

Not to sound accusative, but I'd rather have a pepsum. :tomato: As for the walking times, I would call them leisurely, but not totally unreasonable. Add some ice and snow, and they aren't far off the mark.

[amanfromnowhere]

website's been updated
http://www.cathedralhill.ca

http://www.cathedralhill.ca/_images/content/cathedralhill-three-views.jpg

according to their web site they raised the building to 21 floors with occupancy Fall 2013... probably it's just me but I really like this building (not the office one), it's much nicer than its neighbours from the west (LeBreton)