The Merit | 61 m | 20 fl | Completed

[blackjagger]

http://centretown.blogspot.com/2010/02/monday-tuesday-charlesfort-20-storey.html

Charlesfort's at it again.

Cheers,
Josh

[waterloowarrior]

Nice find Josh.. here's some pics from the Images of Centretown blog

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_eYv6opBqDv0/S3DcYQZU7fI/AAAAAAAACTM/mAKTz3YOyos/s1600/perspectives%2Bdiagram.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_eYv6opBqDv0/S3AiPC0FRBI/AAAAAAAACSk/W9pb3JEZxuM/s1600/elevation%2Bdiagram.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_eYv6opBqDv0/S3AhiY4TWoI/AAAAAAAACSU/6HKyi_a_jg4/s400/height+diagram.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_eYv6opBqDv0/S3DcZZrRZvI/AAAAAAAACTc/UukDPu9JKLk/s1600/site%2Bplan%2Bdiagram.jpg



Here's what we knew about the site previously from the General Rumours thread

Application D08-02-10/A-00018 by Orchid Development Corp. for 108 & 110 Lisgar St. (parking lot behind city hall) is at the Feb 17 CofA. (http://www.kitchissippiward.com/committee-of-adjustment-summary-of-applications-for-feb-17-2010/)... wonder what the application is about? Hopefully not something related to a parking lot :cool:

from JJC newsletter Nov. 2007 (http://www.juteaujohnsoncomba.com/ms_march2007.htm)
117326 Ontario Inc. sold 108 & 110 Lisgar Street to Orchid Development Corp for $2,000,000 or $168/sf. The purchaser is proposing to develop the site with a mid to high-rise condominium apartment building.



pic of the site by Johanna Ngoh (http://ottawacondos.blogspot.com/2009/11/soho-lisgar-coming-to-golden-triangle.html)
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_v7EIS9eAMiY/SvOKUXOK6YI/AAAAAAAAAHY/HatRkc07ZTA/s320/soholisgar.jpg

[harls]

Me like.

Staying on the Hudson Park theme, which is sure to be a winner.

[blackjagger]

I really like this art deco inspired look. Though I would prefer the garage access to be off of Cartier St to allow commercial on the corner of Lisgar and Cartier. But at least we have a small eatery in the proposal.

Cheers,
Josh

[waterloowarrior]

I really like this art deco inspired look. Though I would prefer the garage access to be off of Cartier St to allow commercial on the corner of Lisgar and Cartier. But at least we have a small eatery in the proposal.

Good point! I'm not sure if proposal includes the small lot facing Cartier though. On the site plan it indicates the project is beside a surface parking lot, not Cartier. Looking at E-MAPs it also looks like the lot along Cartier (131 Cooper on E-Maps, same as the apartment building behind it) is separate from this property (108 & 110 Lisgar).

[Davis137]

That building looks awesome, and like Harls indicated, it's got the HP thingy going on that differentiates it from other buildings of this height and size in the city very nicely!

[gjhall]

At some point Centretown residents will have to realize that buildings will steadily become taller. From their own mock up you can see that while the building is taller, it is also pleasant and a welcome addition to the skyline and the streetscape.

Yes, the two storey house will be "dwarfed", but are we satsifed in a downtown core made of buildings in line with 2 storey redstone houses? I hope not.

[rakerman]

Looks nice. I hope they build it.

[rocketphish]

Sweet. Bring it on!

[jcollins]

Looks great!

[Ottawan]

Because to the north we have City Hall (low lying) followed by Jean Pigot Place (that's the new name of Festival Plaza, right?), Confederation Park, and then the NAC, I think it's great that the site could showcase such a nice looking building, as it is likely to be highly visable from much of downtown, and remain that way. It should also have some very nice northfacing views.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Oh my...


Is that.....A building in Ottawa.......with a defined top?!?! :omg:

[kwoldtimer]

Definitely a step up for Ottawa. Hope it goes forward. :tup:

[Tor2Ott]

Oh my...


Is that.....A building in Ottawa.......with a defined top?!?! :omg:

HP has a defined top, no?

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

HP has a defined top, no?

Sort of. In either case though, it's certainly a rarety for this city. :P

[drizzo_613]

holy crap :slob:

fingers crossed

[citizen4829]

HP has a defined top, no?
And The Continental in Westboro also !! :tup:

[Davis137]

My parents commented on the sheer volume of medium-high rise apartment buildings in Ottawa...they think there's actually quite a lot of them for the size of the city (and this is coming from people originally from the Hamilton/Dundas area).

[AuxTown]

Here's a shot from my balcony in the fall showing some of Centretown's midrise density:

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3545/panooy.jpg

[cityguy]

I'm really impressed with this project.

[archie-tect]

The design is interesting, the site is great, I am a big fan of Art Deco, but come on could we try designing without beige brick and black windows. Yes I know their buildings are considerably better than others developed in the City, but with higher standards come greater expectations for future buildings and I just don't think they've continued to push.

[k2p]

Oh my...


Is that.....A building in Ottawa.......with a defined top?!?!

As well as the many other great points here, exactly.

Heaven forbid an interesting, non-box-like thing rise above the monotony.

This is off topic, but speaking of ugly tops, why is there no outcry that Place de Ville isn't getting a new, interesting--dare we say it--lit dome? The company that owns it is recladding BOM's tower in Toronto. Is it too much to ask for a new and interesting roof for the CBD's tallest tower?

Sorry, back to ogling the latest replacement for a surface level parking lot...

[waterloowarrior]

'Innovative' building raises eyebrows over height
Friday, 12 March 2010
By Tayleigh Armstrong
http://centretownnewsonline.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1472&Itemid=94


A proposed 20-storey condominium building next to Ottawa City Hall is generating concerns after the developer was granted a “minor variance” for a project that exceeds the zoning limit for the property by eight floors.

While the building’s innovative design has widespread approval, Centretown community representatives say the planned height of the tower should have triggered a full-fledged rezoning application, including detailed studies, and fear the approval by the city’s committee of adjustment could set a bad precedent for less acceptable developments in the future.

The area, which is currently a parking lot located directly across from the south entrance of city hall, is zoned for a maximum 12-storey building under city bylaws.

However, Charlesfort Development Corp. has designed a 20-storey structure with what it calls an “art deco” style.

“If you look downtown, a lot of the apartments look like monolithic boxes,” says Doug Casey, owner of Charlesfort. “We’ve come up with a real elegant looking building that will be a real contribution to the skyline.”

Nearly every piece of land in Ottawa is zoned, meaning that each piece has certain guidelines of what is allowed to be built.

A developer can apply for a minor variance, which means that the proposed changes to the zoning are considered insignificant, the project is an appropriate use for the land, and the general intent of the bylaw is being upheld.

Charlesfort applied for and was granted a minor variance despite the plan to build eight storeys above the zoning limit.

“When you’re looking at minor variance, you have to look at impact,” says Casey.

Gord Lorimer, the project's architect, says despite the proposed extra height, the impact of the building on the neighbours would be minimal. With Lisgar Collegiate to the east and surrounded by hotels on almost all sides, Lorimer says the building has no chance of blocking views or sunlight.

“It’s a really unique site,” he says.

However, the Centretown Citizens Community Association says the proposal should not be considered a minor variance.

“It almost doubles the size,” says Rick Devereux, a member of the CCCA’s planning and development review committee. “That’s not minor.”

Devereux says the issue isn’t about the building design or even the proposed scale, which he says could be accommodated.

“The building looked nice. It has personality and character,” he says. “But it’s not a minor variance, it should be a rezoning.”

Rezoning an area is a much longer process because detailed studies must be carried out rather than just allowing a one-time fix.

Devereux says he is worried that allowing Charlesfort to call its project a minor variance is setting a bad precedent.

“It has happened before that developers take a precedent and argue that since it happened before, it should happen again,” says Devereux. “Someone less well-intentioned could come along and take advantage of it.”

But there are still a lot of steps before construction can get underway. A full set of plans must be submitted to the city and Charlesfort says comments from the community will be considered.

“We do carefully look at the impact on the neighbours and we are very interested in what they have to say,” says Casey. “We’re just going through the whole process right now.”

Last update : 12-03-2010 07:04

[Ryersonian]

Minor this is not...

Scary precedent as not everybody is Charlesfort....in fact nobody else is...The 'next guy' can cite this and do some serious damage somewhere else...At least it's Charlesfort this time...

[Ottawade]

Wow. Beauty. I can't imagine what the view must be like looking north at the chateau, the gallery, etc... Guess I should start saving all my nickles and dimes to afford the million dollar view :/

[Davis137]

Well, maybe they could set a new precident with this project. Lose the small town "Mom n' Pop" way of doing things mentality. I don't see too much trouble with a building this size in that location, and with other taller buildings built out AWAY from Parliament Hill (you can't see any of it from the Queensway or south of the CBD anyways, so how much relevance do the "Planes of View" have anymore?).

[waterloowarrior]

Appealed to the OMB (variance was granted according to article above, so it may be a neighbour or community association)
http://www.omb.gov.on.ca/ecs/CaseDetail.aspx?n=PL100288

[blackjagger]

Appealed to the OMB (variance was granted according to article above, so it may be a neighbour or community association)
http://www.omb.gov.on.ca/ecs/CaseDetail.aspx?n=PL100288

I'm quite mad about this. This is a beautiful building in an area surrounded by tall apartment buildings and City Hall. It would only add to the area and I think will someday be a great investment property. Maybe the OMB will bump them up to 25 storeys...lol.

Cheers,
Josh

[Proof Sheet]

Appealed to the OMB (variance was granted according to article above, so it may be a neighbour or community association)
http://www.omb.gov.on.ca/ecs/CaseDetail.aspx?n=PL100288

I don't have any direct knowledge on this but it may have been appealed as the objectors may have claimed that the variances were beyond the scope of the Committee of Adjustment and should have gone via a zoning amendment.

[waterloowarrior]

Called up the OMB... David Gladstone is the appellant for this one as well

[waterloowarrior]

OMB hearing starts on 14 July

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

But of course! What's urban development in Ottawa without appeals to the OMB? :rolleyes:

[Davis137]

Build It Dammitt!!!

[citizen j]

I think council is often (but not always) quite happy to have the OMB function as its arbiter, since it allows council members to avoid responsibility for decision making. Individual members can go through the motions of anti-developer/constituent-friendly brouhaha and then throw their hands up in the air in righteous indignation/resignation when development moves forward. Their performances are read as strong leadership when, in reality, they're more a mix of sound and fury signifying nothing. But it plays well at election time.

[Proof Sheet]

I think council is often (but not always) quite happy to have the OMB function as its arbiter, since it allows council members to avoid responsibility for decision making. Individual members can go through the motions of anti-developer/constituent-friendly brouhaha and then throw their hands up in the air in righteous indignation/resignation when development moves forward. Their performances are read as strong leadership when, in reality, they're more a mix of sound and fury signifying nothing. But it plays well at election time.

Well said...as a person who deals with City Staff and City politicians on a regular basis (I'd love to be able to avoid the latter but unfortunately they are involved), City Staff are usually a breath of fresh air in terms of decision making compared to self-serving lifetime Councillors. The City of Ottawa is a cumbersome entity in which it is quite easy for a politician to stall a development application based on no sound rational planning/engineering argument but the fact that it is an election year coming up can throw all reasonable decision making out the window.

[Davis137]

This is one of the best looking buildings I've seen proposed since I started participating on this website and it's forums. I can't understand that even if it IS election year/season, why councillors wouldn't want something like this building built, which could become synonomous with the Ottawa Skyline, and Ottawa in general. I know if I were a Councillor, I'd wanna be able to point out a building or successful project to people, and remind them that I approved it going up, etc etc...

[citizen j]

If I were a self-serving councillor (there's a subjunctive statement!) I would privately love that building but publicly condemn it for casting a shadow on my constituents and clogging up their streets with additional vehicles in order to cover my ass when it came time to ask them to vote for me again. Sadly, there are too few incentives to encourage councillors to venture beyond that parochial little world to become (dare I say it) visionary community builders. Time for a change in the way the city is run. In addition to representatives at the ward level, council needs members-at-large to balance out the equation.

[eemy]

The problem, of course, is who on council would champion having members-at-large on council?

[AuxTown]

If I were a self-serving councillor (there's a subjunctive statement!) I would privately love that building but publicly condemn it for casting a shadow on my constituents and clogging up their streets with additional vehicles in order to cover my ass when it came time to ask them to vote for me again. Sadly, there are too few incentives to encourage councillors to venture beyond that parochial little world to become (dare I say it) visionary community builders. Time for a change in the way the city is run. In addition to representatives at the ward level, council needs members-at-large to balance out the equation.

I completely agree. In Regina, where I'm from, I think they have 25% of the council who represent the city as a whole and are not affiliated with a specific ward. This serves to balance the rampant NIMBYism of a system such as ours. Not only would they (hopefully) vote in the best interests of the city as a whole, but they would also have an opportunity to speak up when councillors are obviously biased on a topic and try to use peer pressure to keep people 'honest'.

[jcollins]

I completely agree. In Regina, where I'm from, I think they have 25% of the council who represent the city as a whole and are not affiliated with a specific ward. This serves to balance the rampant NIMBYism of a system such as ours. Not only would they (hopefully) vote in the best interests of the city as a whole, but they would also have an opportunity to speak up when councillors are obviously biased on a topic and try to use peer pressure to keep people 'honest'.

So then do people run for those specific positions? And then the entire city votes for them?

[AuxTown]

So then do people run for those specific positions? And then the entire city votes for them?

Exactly

[blackjagger]

I figured I would send an e-mail to Charlesfort to see where this project is at. I've been told there will be a lanuch by the fall of this year. So something to look forward to.

Cheers,
Josh

[michigan]

Just curious: what happened to this project?

[Davis137]

Let's get this one approved folks! It's one of the best designs in a long time, even if it IS in those colours...we need more buildings like this one!

[Ottawade]

I've been told there will be a lanuch by the fall of this year.

Too soon! I haven't saved up enough for the North facing penthouse yet! ;)

[rakerman]

It's called The Merit. Nothing on Charlesfort's website yet, but the signs are up at their sales centre at 787 Bank.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5242/5274972464_17404eca58.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rakerman/5274972464/)
IMG_0587 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rakerman/5274972464/) by rakerman (http://www.flickr.com/people/rakerman/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5167/5275037252_833a311b5a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rakerman/5275037252/)
DSC03513 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rakerman/5275037252/) by rakerman (http://www.flickr.com/people/rakerman/), on Flickr

[Harley613]

that is absolutely gorgeous. it's the perfect location for a landmark building like this.
http://i.imgur.com/mvFI5.jpg

[Admiral Nelson]

Damn that's nice!

[reidjr]

Has this been approved yet.

[Kitchissippi]

I probably have the scale and position slightly wrong, but here's imagining how it would peek out from behind city hall:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5204/5280690468_37e5d1b2f6_b.jpg

[reidjr]

That pic gives me goose bumps in a good way.

[AuxTown]

Wouldn't it be great to have a little cluster of towers in that area behind city hall? I have no problem with the scale of the towers further South along Elgin, but this area toward Laurier deserves development of a larger scale IMO.

[rakerman]

Here's an online version of the ad that Charlesfort ran

http://ottawacitizen.shoplocal.com/localdetail.aspx?adlistingid=6564806&adretailerid=71023&title=seasons-greetings-from-charlesfort

[Davis137]

That's an awesome building, awesome location, and I can't wait to see this one go forward!

[BRETeam]

As above.

http://www.charlesfort.ca/merit/registerhere.php

I love the look of this building. Reminds be of New York City.
This building could easily belong adjacent to Central Park (although with more storeys).

It will certainly be interesting to follow.

M.

[Rokko]

I corresponded with Charlesfort and confirmed some general pricing:

For around $400k you'll be able to get a large one bedroom (868 sq ft), while a two bedroom plus den (1465 sq ft) will begin at $825k.

There won't be any two bedrooms available.

[BRETeam]

Email received today:

****
THE MERIT CONDOMINIUM

FLOOR PLANS, PRICE LIST AND SPECIFICATIONS
WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR VIEWING AT
www.charlesfort.ca FRIDAY JANUARY 28TH AT 5:00 PM

OUR SALES GALLERY AT 787 BANK STREET WILL BE OPEN
SATURDAY JANUARY 29TH AND SUNDAY 30TH, 11AM – 4 PM

If you are interested in purchasing a unit, an initial $20,000 deposit will be required
Please note units less than 800 square feet are not initially allocated a parking spot
****

Martin

[salinas]

The purchaser deposit structure for The Merit will be as follows:

On signing of the agreement of purchase and sale: $20,000

Additional deposit to 10% of purchase price upon commencement of construction of the project

Additional deposit to 15% of purchase price 180 days after commencement of construction of the project.

[BRETeam]

All information (Floor Plans, Prices etc....) now available on the charlesfort.ca site:

http://www.charlesfort.ca/merit/

I'm guessing purchasers of these suites will mainly be Owner Occupiers.

M.

[gjhall]

That's a tremendous project. From $422-698/sq ft by my calculations. Very nice.

[kwoldtimer]

All information (Floor Plans, Prices etc....) now available on the charlesfort.ca site:

http://www.charlesfort.ca/merit/

I'm guessing purchasers of these suites will mainly be Owner Occupiers.

M.

Amazing project, but it looks like you have to go past 2,000 sq ft and $1 million to get a proper kitchen! What are all the condo folk going to do when "open concept" goes out of style?

[citizen4829]

Amazing project, but it looks like you have to go past 2,000 sq ft and $1 million to get a proper kitchen! What are all the condo folk going to do when "open concept" goes out of style?
The "open concept" is used throughout the entire housing industry...not just in condos. Building trends come and go....think basement family rooms and laundry rooms....these are now usually on the main floor of homes. The "open concept" has been around for about ten years now and I believe it will be around for a while yet! :)

[Harley613]

"open concept" is essentially the result of stronger building materials and more efficient HVAC. we would have had open concept for the entire history of the domicile if we had the ability to do it easily. now that we have it, it's here to stay. nobody would choose to have cramped little rooms anymore.

[JackBauer24]

"Open concept" was originally designed and introduced to open up previously secluded rooms in small space living areas to make a more bright and spacious openings. It's usually tied into condos due to the fact that they are smaller and having a seperate living room, dining room and kitchen would make everything look and feel smaller and darker. But with condos being the front runner when it comes to new design trends in housing, the open concept design was adopted in other types of housing (single family, towns, etc..) and now that's it's pretty much found in every type of dwelling, I think it'll be here for a long, long time.

[citizen4829]

"Open concept" was originally designed and introduced to open up previously secluded rooms in small space living areas to make a more bright and spacious openings. It's usually tied into condos due to the fact that they are smaller and having a seperate living room, dining room and kitchen would make everything look and feel smaller and darker. But with condos being the front runner when it comes to new design trends in housing, the open concept design was adopted in other types of housing (single family, towns, etc..) and now that's it's pretty much found in every type of dwelling, I think it'll be here for a long, long time.

I agree completely. It's a stretch to suggest that builders did not have the ability to 'open up' a living room, dining room and kitchen until the past few years...and heat and cool it. :koko:

[Harley613]

prior to electric heat and forced air, rooms were heated by fireplaces (hence the multitude of them in old houses), and later on with boilers. radiant heat isn't very effective at filling a large space without the radiators taking up too much space.

as for my building materials comment, in days past we built cathedrals and other public buildings with enormous open spaces, but for economical reasons our houses were constructed of timber cut by hand. the advent of treated lumber, reinforced concrete, and other modern building materials allowed us to create larger spaces economically.

[KHOOLE]

"Open concept" was originally designed and introduced to open up previously secluded rooms in small space living areas to make a more bright and spacious openings. It's usually tied into condos due to the fact that they are smaller and having a seperate living room, dining room and kitchen would make everything look and feel smaller and darker. But with condos being the front runner when it comes to new design trends in housing, the open concept design was adopted in other types of housing (single family, towns, etc..) and now that's it's pretty much found in every type of dwelling, I think it'll be here for a long, long time.

Open concept is nothing new. Our grand-parents were raised on farms where the kitchen was where everybody was and everything happened. The living room was only for special occasions. Urban houses had weight-bearing walls and, unless the ceilings were very high, the rooms had to be small compared to our standards (12 foot or 16 foot joists).
It's only with structural steel and reinforced concrete introduced early in the 20th century that rooms got bigger and more space available. The dining room on the 2nd floor of the Coliseum at Lansdowne Park, built in 1926, could sit 200 people at a time. Otherwise large gatherings were at the Chateau Laurier. Why it never caught on for appartment houses built at the same time with structural steel is probably because it was traditional to have many small rooms in an urban setting and society does not change its ways very quickly. The Minto, Teron and Campeau houses of the 50's also all had small rooms until someone thought that combining the dining room and the living room was smarter and cheaper. Afterwards, a usually L-shaped combined kitchen, dining room and living room followed.

[rakerman]

Usual Ottawa Citizen condo article - http://www.ottawacitizen.com/slice+York+City/4228809/story.html - I didn't realise the 20-storey tower only has 74 units.

[JackBauer24]

Does anyone else share the feeling that something just isn't right here with regards to their advertized sales. If you look at the history of million dollar condos in Ottawa (there aren't many - 6 resale $1M+ condos in the last 5 years - which doesn't include the 10-15 new home condos during that time), that would mean that the Merit more than doubled (almost tripled) the amount of million dollar condos in one weekend. While I do like Charlesfort and I think the Merit has a beautiful design, I am finding it awefully hard to believe that their sales are that high considering that:

1) the Re is a equal, if not better, project (and they're about 50% sold out). They have more amenities, better finishes and better location at almost the same $/sq ft.
2) the people buying million dollar condos usually take a little longer to buy than say an investor buying a $250k condo would - according to their webite, 8 or more million dollar condos were gone on the first day.
3) if everything I've read is current, they don't even have approval for 20 floors yet. Who would put that kind of money down on a project that may not be approved?

Maybe it's just me being skeptical, but something just doesn't sit right.

[reidjr]

Does anyone else share the feeling that something just isn't right here with regards to their advertized sales. If you look at the history of million dollar condos in Ottawa (there aren't many - 6 resale $1M+ condos in the last 5 years - which doesn't include the 10-15 new home condos during that time), that would mean that the Merit more than doubled (almost tripled) the amount of million dollar condos in one weekend. While I do like Charlesfort and I think the Merit has a beautiful design, I am finding it awefully hard to believe that their sales are that high considering that:

1) the Re is a equal, if not better, project (and they're about 50% sold out). They have more amenities, better finishes and better location at almost the same $/sq ft.
2) the people buying million dollar condos usually take a little longer to buy than say an investor buying a $250k condo would - according to their webite, 8 or more million dollar condos were gone on the first day.
3) if everything I've read is current, they don't even have approval for 20 floors yet. Who would put that kind of money down on a project that may not be approved?

Maybe it's just me being skeptical, but something just doesn't sit right.

As for it would take more time for someone to buy a $1 million dollar unit sure some times but some times its easier for people with money to buy now.As for the area not everyone wants to live in the market so that maybe the appeal for some.

[blackjagger]

Does anyone else share the feeling that something just isn't right here with regards to their advertized sales. If you look at the history of million dollar condos in Ottawa (there aren't many - 6 resale $1M+ condos in the last 5 years - which doesn't include the 10-15 new home condos during that time), that would mean that the Merit more than doubled (almost tripled) the amount of million dollar condos in one weekend. While I do like Charlesfort and I think the Merit has a beautiful design, I am finding it awefully hard to believe that their sales are that high considering that:

1) the Re is a equal, if not better, project (and they're about 50% sold out). They have more amenities, better finishes and better location at almost the same $/sq ft.
2) the people buying million dollar condos usually take a little longer to buy than say an investor buying a $250k condo would - according to their webite, 8 or more million dollar condos were gone on the first day.
3) if everything I've read is current, they don't even have approval for 20 floors yet. Who would put that kind of money down on a project that may not be approved?

Maybe it's just me being skeptical, but something just doesn't sit right.

They were sold out because friends and family of the builder had bought them. The president himself bought one of the penthouse units. I would say that speaks more than anything. Secondly they do have approval for 20 storey, that was approved via the committee of adjustment. The site plan that approval is still outstanding for is not for approval of the height.

We are all entitled to our opinions on views and finish. I would agree that the views from RE will be incredible. But the views from Merit are nothing to scoff at. Both are excellent examples of Luxury condos and it is great that there is a market for that many units in a city of 1,000,000. Hopefully both break ground soon.

Cheers,
Josh

[reidjr]

They were sold out because friends and family of the builder had bought them. The president himself bought one of the penthouse units. I would say that speaks more than anything. Secondly they do have approval for 20 storey, that was approved via the committee of adjustment. The site plan that approval is still outstanding for is not for approval of the height.

We are all entitled to our opinions on views and finish. I would agree that the views from RE will be incredible. But the views from Merit are nothing to scoff at. Both are excellent examples of Luxury condos and it is great that there is a market for that many units in a city of 1,000,000. Hopefully both break ground soon.

Cheers,
Josh

I don't see anything wrong with the friends of the buiilder buying them.

[blackjagger]

I don't see anything wrong with the friends of the buiilder buying them.

I agree. That would suggest to me a high quality product.

[JackBauer24]

I agree. That would suggest to me a high quality product.

Yes and no. It's not unusual for friends and family of the Vendor to invest in their own project - often they'll get the best deal because they know the vendor thus making it a wise and profitable investment - regardless if it's a quality project or not. When you buy pre-construction, especially at the start, by buying at the lowest price point you give yourself some buffer room in case the property doesn't increase in valuer as you planned.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this is a poor builder or a bad project, just the fact that the builder and his friends/family bought doesn't mean much to me. One of the friends of the owner of Claridge bought an upper level suite at CP1, didn't make me want to buy one.

[K-133]

Yes and no. It's not unusual for friends and family of the Vendor to invest in their own project - often they'll get the best deal because they know the vendor thus making it a wise and profitable investment - regardless if it's a quality project or not. When you buy pre-construction, especially at the start, by buying at the lowest price point you give yourself some buffer room in case the property doesn't increase in valuer as you planned.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this is a poor builder or a bad project, just the fact that the builder and his friends/family bought doesn't mean much to me. One of the friends of the owner of Claridge bought an upper level suite at CP1, didn't make me want to buy one.

Bang on.

Though, regarding CP1, had you gone against your thoughts at the time...

[JackBauer24]

Bang on.

Though, regarding CP1, had you gone against your thoughts at the time...

I still would have made money (as I previously stated - buyingpre-construction is almost never a bad idea), but it certainly wouldn't yeild the return I would expect from a condo at that location. Stick a Soho , Charlesfort or Domicile building there instead, your profit margin would almost double.

[ServiceGuy]

I still would have made money (as I previously stated - buyingpre-construction is almost never a bad idea), but it certainly wouldn't yeild the return I would expect from a condo at that location. Stick a Soho , Charlesfort or Domicile building there instead, your profit margin would almost double.

Pre-construction used to be a huge deal providing the building was actually built. It was the incentive builders used for financing but these days they seem to go on the basis that they will automatically sell and don't discount like they used to. Most seem to have a selling price to launch and then "bumps" already determined after X number of sales. There are still capital gains to be made but not like there used to be if you bought early in the right building.

[JackBauer24]

Pre-construction used to be a huge deal providing the building was actually built. It was the incentive builders used for financing but these days they seem to go on the basis that they will automatically sell and don't discount like they used to. Most seem to have a selling price to launch and then "bumps" already determined after X number of sales. There are still capital gains to be made but not like there used to be if you bought early in the right building.

Most Vendor's don't discount their prices. If you buy in phase 1 of pre-construction, you will make a profit, no question. If you look at the financial plan of a pre-built project, the first phase is sold below market value and until the builder sells 60-65% (that amount varies on the builders arrangement with their bank) the Vendor typically won't increase their prices (or if they do, not by a lot), once that 60-65% is met, that's when the bank releases the funds to start construction and the green light is given for construction. At that point, since the Vendor is in the business to make money, that's when prices increase (usually fairly significantly). If you buy at that point, then it would probably not be a wise investment. But even with capital gains, the profit made off a new home bought in phase 1 would off-set that cost and would still be an excellent investment.

[reidjr]

I just found out construction is expected to start next month.

[Marcus CLS]

Construction has started on the Merit. I was by there on Thursday and took some photos. It looks like this one will take some time as they are using the same method for shoreing the excavation as Tribeca. Concrete is being poured for the trench wall at the surface which guides the starting point downward, if you know what I mean.

[Kodakjello]

You beat me to it Marcus CLS! I just noticed they had begun digging the trench yesterday. This is a shot from the City Hall rear parking area looking South West:
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/4477/img7499vl.jpg

Here's the view from Lisgar looking South East:
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/4464/img7495yl.jpg

The concrete trenches they are using to shore up the ground at the surface:
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2616/img7493c.jpg

A shot looking due West from Cartier street. As far as I can tell, the parking lot in the foreground will remain a parking lot for now. Although, I'm pretty sure another condo will be going up there within the next 5 years.
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7742/img7492s.jpg

I've also included a YouTube video I took to show the scale of the project. Basically, it's going to be HUGE. The buildings in the background are about 10 or eleven stories and the Merit is going to be 20 stories, so twice a tall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5jrOTKfYkk

[MountainView]

Thanks for posting the pictures! This project is going to look great when it's all said and done, a great addition to that area of downtown!

[S-Man]

Almost twice as tall? Thank God - that beige, balcony-less rectangle directly behind the site is probably the ugliest building i've ever seen.

[m0nkyman]

Almost twice as tall? Thank God - that beige, balcony-less rectangle directly behind the site is probably the ugliest building i've ever seen.
Three words:
Bell street towers

[Kodakjello]

Yeah, below the 10th floor you'd be staring at those extended stay balconies. I need to check the plans to see what the setback would be. It's all starting to look very New York in terms of the views :)

[reidjr]

No question its a very sharp looking building it will be interesting to see it go up.

[S-Man]

Actually, the only prominent multi-story building i can see from my bedroom window is Bell Street Towers, albeit from the other side of the Queensway. It's a constant reminder of how bad life really could be...

[S-Man]

With the Merit location, the new building will serve to show the vast difference between acceptable building styles of the 1960s/1970s and those of today

[Kodakjello]

Ah, the Bell Street Towers. I believe they are actually going to get a makeover where the balconies will be enclosed and the entire building will be wrapped in stucco. Could be worse...

While I am drooling over the 16th floor units in the Merit, I would like to see more three or four storey buildings like the Val Cartier at Cartier and Somerset. They seem to be a great balance since they aren't high enough to need an elevator yet they are more than four times denser than single family homes.

[Davis137]

Fantastic! I think this is going to be one of the closely followed projects on this board, and I think the views from this building's upper floors will be amazing! I know the views from some of the suites in the Holiday Inn are amazing, and this building will have ones from even higher vantage points.

Can't wait to see this one rise, and I'll be able to see it happen from work (unless I get sent somewhere else).

[Richard Eade]

Hmm. I didn't notice the trench for the slurry wall. Does it surround the entire property? It is curious because I caught what appears to be a pile-driver being delivered on Wednesday (June 22, 2011) morning.

http://REade.fileave.com/Construction/Merit-Piledriver-2011-Jun-2.jpg

[rakerman]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5236/5869540477_1375a862ae_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rakerman/5869540477/)
DSC04517 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rakerman/5869540477/) by rakerman (http://www.flickr.com/people/rakerman/), on Flickr

[Davis137]

There's gotta be some new progress in this location by now...

[Richard Eade]

Like the Tribeca, which also used the slurry wall construction, there will be a lot of time before much visible change happens. The wall trenches are being dug, bottoms pounded, and the reinforcing cages lowered.

[Davis137]

Oh ok, also good to know this one is happening still...

[rocketphish]

Some (small) construction photos:
http://www.roneng.com/project_detail.asp?p=104&c=5&s=0&t=1&f=1&pg=1

[amanfromnowhere]

Some (small) construction photos:
http://www.roneng.com/project_detail.asp?p=104&c=5&s=0&t=1&f=1&pg=1

btw... project details say 21 storey... do they count mechanical as 21st?

[S-Man]

I think the mech. penthouse counts as a floor. Read something to that effect recently regarding this project.

[bobcage]

btw... project details say 21 storey... do they count mechanical as 21st?

The 21st floor is a roof top terrace -- the mechanical room is aprox. 2 floors high above the 21st. So i'm estimating this building will appear to be 23 floors high. I bought a Unit and I got the drawings so this what I calculated :-)


I noticed they are not digging/building the underground parking the same way as (tribeca) --They are digging deap walls and pouring cement? I think the soil might be soft there and no rocks to blast.

I know nothing about construction though... :-(

[bobcage]

Anyone know why it's taking so long to start digging the underground parking ?