What do you believe was the biggest bullet your city wisely missed?

SignalHillHiker · #1 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 4:30 PM**

A conversation about St. Louis in the City Discussions section made me wonder: what do you believe is the biggest bullet your city missed?

In other words, what one proposal failed that you think would have most negatively impacted your city had it gone ahead?

For St. John's, I think the full proposal for Atlantic Place is the biggest bullet we missed.

Atlantic Place is already a disaster that should never have been built. It was approved at a time when St. John's, wide-eyed and in awe of the mainland, was flirting with following the same development route as did some Maritime cities.

It completely blocks the view from old town St. John's from many vantage points and it has a harbourfront parkade that I find instantly aggravating. Here you can see Atlantic Place as it was actually built, with its adjacent parkade:

St. John's at Night by SignalHillHiker, on Flickr

But that's not all that Atlantic Place was supposed to be. Oh no... as Architype has explained in the main St. John's project thread, this is what was approved for construction:

The hotel/cabaret on top, which would have brought the building height to 20 floors, was - thankfully - never added.

I think this is the biggest, single bullet we missed because it would have completely shattered all of the heritage protection laws that were taking effect at that time.

Its height, architectural style, and position in the old town core could have made it perfectly acceptable to propose and construct buildings of this nature at a time when architecture was, in my opinion, absolutely hideous.

We would have become a city blocked with the most unattractive brick and concrete midrises, each one sticking out like a sore thumb. We would have completely diminished the unique atmosphere of old St. John's, which is created not by the grandeur of its admittedly small and plain heritage buildings, but by their sheer number and the fact they're almost all crammed together in one exceptionally well-preserved neighbourhood.

We'd have become a city like some others in the region: mostly random modern buildings with a specifically-preserved heritage structure every block or two. Our heritage could have become a few pictures of old buildings, rather than a totally immersive experience.

So I'm VERY grateful Atlantic Place wasn't finished. Also, if I had to look at the monstrosity from that proposal every day, I'd probably want to jump off it. Like that guy in Paris who ate his lunch under the Eiffel Tower every day because he hated it and that was the only place in the city from which he couldn't see it.

Calgarian · #2 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 4:33 PM**

Building a freeway through downtown called the "downtown penetrator" lol. I'm not sure about the details completely, but it would have moved the CPR tracks to the rivers edge and had downtown connect to the Beltline to the south. Maybe another Calgary forumer with more time can post some images of what it would have been.

SHOFEAR · #3 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 4:45 PM**

this.

Calgarian · #4 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 4:56 PM**

Wow, that is a huge bullet Edmonton dodged, would have turned your city into Houston!

SignalHillHiker · #5 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 4:57 PM**

Oh. My. God.

Daveography · #6 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 5:18 PM**

And that's only the downtown portion. Many of those freeways were proposed to run through some of our best and most beautiful natural areas like MacKinnion Ravine and Mill Creek.

We seriously dodged that one.

someone123 · #7 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 5:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

We'd have become a city like some others in the region: mostly random modern buildings with a specifically-preserved heritage structure every block or two.

You seem to have issues with the Maritimes.

I would argue that St. John's has followed a development trajectory similar to other cities in the region. The commercial core of the city, which extends in from the water a few blocks, is maybe 50/50 older and newer buildings. Most of the well-preserved areas are residential in nature. You can find lots of nicely-preserved residential neighbourhoods in other cities.

I'm not sure if there's a single town in the Maritimes that only has the odd heritage building every block or two in its historic core.

Boris2k7 · #8 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 5:31 PM**

How about a freeway rammed right through downtown Calgary (I believe this is the aforementioned "downtown penetrator")?

Maybe you would prefer a Blackfoot Freeway plowing right through Inglewood? A Memorial Drive Freeway?

Or, I know, how about a TransCanada that, instead of turning into 16th Ave like it does today, instead plowed through communities like Tuxedo, Mount Pleasant, Capitol Hill, Banff Trail, and University Heights? We could even throw in a 14th Street Freeway for good measure!

More here: http://albertaroads.homestead.com/

MonctonRad · #9 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 5:32 PM**

Sadly, Moncton has not dodged any bullets.

Halifax however did dodge a big one. In the 70's I believe, they were well along the way to building a harbour expressway that would have connected to the container terminal in the south end. This would have completely cut the core off from the harbourfront. Demolition was halted at the last moment and the waterfront rejuvenated with developments such as Historic Properties, the Maritime Museum etc.

The waterfront is now the most popular area in the city. The entire character of the city would have been changed if the freeway had been built.

someone123 · #10 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 5:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Halifax however did dodge a big one. In the 70's I believe, they were well along the way to building a harbour expressway that would have connected to the container terminal in the south end. This would have completely cut the core off from the harbourfront.

Here's the 1963 plan for road improvements on the peninsula. Harbour drive is the thick dashed line near the bottom of the image. The northern part of it was built but the southern part was not:

Source

In 1963 they had not yet built the MacKay bridge. Originally it appears that they planned to do a southern bridge instead. That was never built, although it is being contemplated now by the bridge commission.

freeweed · #11 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 5:41 PM**

Calgary and Edmonton definitely dodged huge bullets in the 50s/60s. Those freeway projects would have destroyed the character of the cities. Houston indeed (or Toronto's waterfront also comes to mind).

JHikka · #12 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 5:42 PM**

I don't think Saint John's missed any bullets. We've taken them all directly to the chest.

Surrealplaces · #13 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 6:06 PM**

That would be my vote also!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Building a freeway through downtown called the "downtown penetrator" lol. I'm not sure about the details completely, but it would have moved the CPR tracks to the rivers edge and had downtown connect to the Beltline to the south. Maybe another Calgary forumer with more time can post some images of what it would have been.

Surrealplaces · #14 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 6:07 PM**

Wow...looks like we dodge a few bullets!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris2k7

How about a freeway rammed right through downtown Calgary (I believe this is the aforementioned "downtown penetrator")?

Maybe you would prefer a Blackfoot Freeway plowing right through Inglewood? A Memorial Drive Freeway?

Or, I know, how about a TransCanada that, instead of turning into 16th Ave like it does today, instead plowed through communities like Tuxedo, Mount Pleasant, Capitol Hill, Banff Trail, and University Heights? We could even throw in a 14th Street Freeway for good measure!

More here: http://albertaroads.homestead.com/

1ajs · #15 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 6:25 PM**

the mass demolition of the exhcange district

http://www.flickr.com/photos/manitobamaps/2808499535/

240glt · #16 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 6:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Wow, that is a huge bullet Edmonton dodged, would have turned your city into Houston!

I'd be living under an overpass

SignalHillHiker · #17 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 6:39 PM**

Oh, the Exchange District was my favourite part of Winnipeg! I hope they never destroy it. I would have loved if they'd kept that old City Hall as well.

*****

Someone123: Not issues, just fear/concern that we could end up doing the same things to our city and looking the same. Our midrises are equally hideous and the modern parts of St. John's are no better, but our old town is and I don't want us to lose it.

And it's a common enough sentiment - not just me.

In St. John's, when someone brings up losing heritage, Halifax is usually cited as the example of what we don't want to have happen.

Acajack · #18 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 6:39 PM**

Gatineau, Québec

The downtown of the city did not dodge a bullet: it hit it right between the eyes.

In the 1970s PE Trudeau wanted to include the Quebec side of the Ottawa River in the national capital, and a huge urban renewal project began in central Hull (now downtown Gatineau) that basically destroyed a traditional (not very rich, but authentic) neighbourhood.

Massive brutalist office blocks for federal workers replaced traditional city streets lined with small workers' houses. The Portage complex (only part of all of the federal office space here) is said to be the second largest concentration of public employees in the world after the Pentagon. New boulevards and highways to serve the masses of workers were built and isolated pockets of the downtown from each other.

The spinoff effect of the federal workers' presence on downtown was minimal. Most of the area is as poor today as it was - or even poorer.

A majority of the federal jobs in central Gatineau (Hull) even today are held by Ontario residents.

It has been a boon to the city in tax dollars for the buildings, or payments in lieu which is what the feds give to municipalities (though Hull didn't seem to make good use of all that money to spruce itself up - merged Gatineau seems to be doing better at this).

But that is about it.

Marty_Mcfly · #19 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 6:41 PM**

I don't know if we necessarily dodged a bullet with deviating from the original Atlantic Place plans to what's there now

In all honesty, while extremely tall compared to everything else downtown, the design for the upper portion of the building isn't that bad, and the extra floors really do limit the bulky floors that we all know and love now. Instead they added more floors to the bulky base, said no to the upper skinny tower, eliminated all architectural designs, and left us with 9 floors from hell. Thankfully the new owners have tried their best to make the place presentable.

Sadly enough, as ugly as that place is, it's one of my favorite places on a sunny summer afternoon.

A real bullet we dodged? Check out "The Rock", the proposed replacement for the Battery Hotel. That thing looked like a god damn space ship landing on the cliffs.

SignalHillHiker · #20 Posted **Oct 11, 2012, 6:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

A real bullet we dodged? Check out "The Rock", the proposed replacement for the Battery Hotel. That thing looked like a god damn space ship landing on the cliffs.

Or another Ice Cap.