[Nepean] Arlington Square | 6 floors | ?m | Proposed

[McC]

(unless I missed an existing thread for this, but I think it was only mentioned in the General Suburban Updates thread)
Phoenix's planned condo development at the Corner of Craig Henry and Greenbank, called "Arlington Square" (ed: shouldn't that be on Arlington? see
http://www.phoenixhomes.ca/communiti...iew.cfm?com=37) is apparently attracting some "controversy":


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/busines...#ixzz1T9DcW8bg

Meeting called for Craig Henry condo development


The Ottawa Citizen July 25, 2011 3:12 PM
Comment 0
OTTAWA — A public meeting is to be held Tuesday to discuss a controversial condominium planned for the corner of Craig Henry Drive and Greenbank Road.

Phoenix Homes is proposing an L-shaped condo building to house 69 units, and residents have raised concerns about the building’s height and safety issues mainly related to traffic.

A recently completed peer review makes several design recommendations aimed at better integrating the proposed project with the surrounding neighbourhood.

Knoxdale-Merivale Councillor Keith Egli, city planning staff, Phoenix Homes representatives and Gordon Stratford, an architect from HOK, the firm that completed the peer review, are to present information and hear concerns and questions from residents.

The meeting is to be held from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. at the Trend-Arlington community building, 50 Bellman Dr.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

This EMC article has a sketch that shows it looking like the even-more-hideous cousin of the Stoneworks' on Scott Street: http://www.emcbarrhaven.ca/20110526/...oenix+proposal

[MountainView]

Found this in on The Citizen's website during my evening read...

One thing (among many) that I don't like... "All of a sudden the beautiful Greenbank that’s there today is going to turn into a concrete tunnel,” resident Paul Bennett said to a round of applause.

Beautiful Greenbank? So a Shopper's DrugMart and a Tim Horton's... very classy Ottawa. Greenbank is essentially an 'urban highway' for those suburbanites in Barrhaven to reach the Queensway; anything but 'beautiful'

Article:

Developers firm on six-storey design

But will appease some of residents’ concerns over Greenbank building

By CAROLYN THOMPSON, The Ottawa Citizen

Developers say they will not reduce the size or height of a proposed six-storey apartment building at Greenbank Road and Craig Henry Drive, after a peer review made recommendations to accommodate resident concerns at a community meeting Tuesday night.

Nearly 50 residents came out to the Trend-Arlington community building to voice their concerns about the effect of the building on the community.

“All of a sudden the beautiful Greenbank that’s there today is going to turn into a concrete tunnel,” resident Paul Bennett said to a round of applause.

Phoenix Homes purchased three properties — all single-family homes — along Greenbank Road, and requested a bylaw exemption to build a 69-unit condominium six storeys high, three higher than the zoning allowance.

Gordon Stratford, an architect with HOK who developed the peer review, said he based his recommendations on buildings in the surrounding neighbourhoods, “realizing that when something new comes along, there’s always going to be a bit of a change,” he said. The review proposed lowering the building height to five storeys, adding green space by reducing the building size and moving parking underground.

But Phoenix representative Paul Skvor said the company had reviewed the recommendations over the weekend, and could not accept the proposed changes.

Residents challenged the statement, asking why Phoenix had agreed to the peer review if there had never been an intention to accept proposed changes.

Skvor responded that the company had misunderstood the intention of the peer review, returning to the debate about the zoning in the area.

Knoxdale-Merivale Councillor Keith Egli said the adjacent properties were both zoned for six storeys, and the city was focusing intensification inside the Greenbelt, making exceptions to the height restriction possible.

James O’Grady, vice-president of the Trend-Arlington community association, said the zoning confusion came from a lack of communication about intensification. He said they wanted a community design plan to protect the area from future developments.

O’Grady said the association could accept the peer review recommendations, but not the Phoenix proposal. Residents voiced concerns about the five-storey height proposal and the effect on traffic in the area. Some residents said they would have been willing to accept a four-storey proposal, but the five recommended was still too high.

Egli said a compromise was essential, saying he realized no proposal would make everyone happy.

Phoenix will submit a new proposal with some of the suggested changes, after which residents will have 21 days to provide comments.

After that, the final design proposal will be presented to the city’s planning committee in September or October.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ot...435/story.html

[McC]

"James O’Grady, vice-president of the Trend-Arlington community association...said they wanted a community design plan to protect the area from future developments."
Note to James O'Grady (in the voioce of Ranier Wolfcaste as Radioactive Man "The [Plans] DO NOTHING!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juFZh92MUOY

[S-Man]

It's hard to be sympathetic when the community is basically asking to be left alone and have all other areas of the city handle the housing needs of new residents - even the suburbs, or the country. I know in this case the developer is being inflexible, but at the same time many residents aren't willing to compromise in any way even if that option was on the table, which does them no favours. Screw the city, just give me what I want.
Only a handful of houses border on the site, which is on four lanes of roadway, yet at every meeting of this type, 60 or so people show up, all angry and talking about their quality of life. The guy (Bennett) last night talking about how his DRIVE down Greenbank (he lives far away on Baseline) will be ruined by a building he will have to pass by is a good example.

[Dado]

As amusing as comments about "beautiful Greenbank" and it being turned into a "concrete tunnel" are, there's something pretty odd about Phoenix's claim that they need a six storey building to make the project viable. They acquired all of three ageing bungalows... on Greenbank. Just think about that - three old bungalows on Greenbank. How much could they have possibly spent for all that? $1.2M? Maybe $1.5M? Anything more than that is just over-the-top insane given what else is available in the area. After all, who would pay half a million to live in a nondescript bungalow on Greenbank? That's what would set the price they had to pay to get them. So they should be able to slap down an 8-10 unit 3-storey townhouse development and leave with a tidy profit (heck, the properties are so large you could probably fit a row of townhouses into the backyards without even touching the existing houses). Anything more than that would be gravy. Phoenix certainly shouldn't need 70 units in a six storey condo to make a development viable and if they do then they paid way too much for these properties in the first place.

Developers really do themselves no favours carrying on like this. What's the thought process? Claim that you need far more than you do and hope that convinces people to agree to it? Even if you manage to convince people you need that much, all you've done is open yourself up to the charge that you paid too much for it (e.g. Ashcroft and the convent). Everyone in the room knows that a far smaller development would be viable so all that these claims of needing far more do is make everyone angrier but since no one can actually prove it the residents resort to making wild claims of their own. S-Man cites the "quality of life" argument used by the residents, and I agree it's over-the-top, but it's no more over-the-top than Phoenix's claim that they need a 70 unit condo to make a viable go of a redevelopment of three ageing bungalows on Greenbank.

I think many of these redevelopments are needlessly confrontational because of the attitude that developers approach them with: they basically know that they can get their way at the OMB so they have absolutely no incentive to carry on in a reasonable way. It should come as no surprise to anyone that an unreasonable developer is met by an unreasonable audience.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by Dado

As amusing as comments about "beautiful Greenbank" and it being turned into a "concrete tunnel" are, there's something pretty odd about Phoenix's claim that they need a six storey building to make the project viable. They acquired all of three ageing bungalows... on Greenbank. Just think about that - three old bungalows on Greenbank. How much could they have possibly spent for all that? $1.2M? Maybe $1.5M? Anything more than that is just over-the-top insane given what else is available in the area. After all, who would pay half a million to live in a nondescript bungalow on Greenbank? That's what would set the price they had to pay to get them. So they should be able to slap down an 8-10 unit 3-storey townhouse development and leave with a tidy profit (heck, the properties are so large you could probably fit a row of townhouses into the backyards without even touching the existing houses). Anything more than that would be gravy. Phoenix certainly shouldn't need 70 units in a six storey condo to make a development viable and if they do then they paid way too much for these properties in the first place.

Developers really do themselves no favours carrying on like this. What's the thought process? Claim that you need far more than you do and hope that convinces people to agree to it? Even if you manage to convince people you need that much, all you've done is open yourself up to the charge that you paid too much for it (e.g. Ashcroft and the convent). Everyone in the room knows that a far smaller development would be viable so all that these claims of needing far more do is make everyone angrier but since no one can actually prove it the residents resort to making wild claims of their own. S-Man cites the "quality of life" argument used by the residents, and I agree it's over-the-top, but it's no more over-the-top than Phoenix's claim that they need a 70 unit condo to make a viable go of a redevelopment of three ageing bungalows on Greenbank.

I think many of these redevelopments are needlessly confrontational because of the attitude that developers approach them with: they basically know that they can get their way at the OMB so they have absolutely no incentive to carry on in a reasonable way. It should come as no surprise to anyone that an unreasonable developer is met by an unreasonable audience.

Thats goes both ways sure some devlopers may push it abit but part of the issue is some residents are just as bad if not worse some get all worked up over any building no matter the height if its 2 floors or 20 floors.

[citizen j]

Dear Trend-Arlington community association. Unfortunately, we received your letter about not allowing ANY new development (i.e., "protect us from future development") in your area 2 days after a similar letter arrived from the nearby Qualicum community association. In it, they asked for exactly the same thing and added that we should put all development slated for their area in your neighbourhood. They said you'd be fine with that. Since they asked first (and, let's face it, pay more in property taxes), you are now expected to shoulder an increased share of the area's redevelopment because others don't want their inside-the-Greenbelt neighbourhood to change. At all. Sucks to be you. Sincerely, the City of Ottawa.

[waterloowarrior]

shrunk to 5 floors, 15.6m
http://www.obj.ca/Real-Estate/Reside...lding-height/1

properties went for $1.8 mil
http://www.juteaujohnsoncomba.com/ms_july2011.htm

rezoning app (revised plans are posted)
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/...appId=__7EC5KD

site plan app
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/...appId=__7ADD9Z

[waterloowarrior]

revised proposal recommended for approval
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...nbank%20Rd.htm

[S-Man]

Rumour has it the community association is still pissed because they made some units smaller to allow more in the same sized (5 storeys) building. They wanted about 50. The developer has made about 60.
That said, the building is still the same size!!! People are addicted to complaining.

[amanfromnowhere]

from Alistair Steele twitter:

#ottcity planning committee approves 5-storey, 61-unit Phoenix condo development at Greenbank/Craig Henry, calling it a "compromise"

[S-Man]

With a name like Alistair, it's gotta be true!

That said, I really can't wrap my head around the community's level of hysteria over a 5 storey building, or their roundabout, hypocritical views on liking change but liking things to stay the same more.

[waterloowarrior]

The building formerly known as Arlington Square and Craig Henry Square is now being called Pointe West http://www.phoenixhomes.ca/communiti...kind=429042781

[S-Man]

Pointe West ? That's a good military college.....wait a minute!

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Pointe West ? That's a good military college.....wait a minute!

So would that be pronounced "Pwant West" or "Pointy West". My vote goes to Pointy.

[S-Man]

Given the endless backlash against this 5-storey "skyscraper" during the planning stage, I think a correct name should be NIMBYView Towers.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Given the endless backlash against this 5-storey "skyscraper" during the planning stage, I think a correct name should be NIMBYView Towers.

It's Ottawa. NIMBYView Crossing, surely? Or maybe NIMBY Mews? Or NIMBY's Pasture?

[S-Man]

NIMBYCrestHavenView on the Green?