Why London is beating American cities

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

The people Brexiters wanted to get rid of, or stem the inflow of, were technically not immigrants. They all had EU passports, including the British. And they could come and go as they pleased. Like someone moving from New York to Florida.

No, they were immigrants. There is no EU passport, but the Schengen rules allow for (more or less) open immigration.

But it isn't anything like U.S. state movement, as that isn't international migration. Someone moving between states isn't immigrating.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

Economic malaise? Most abandoned russian oligarch mansions per capita? Fastest negative change in number of jobs in finance and banking?

Transit returning to normal, pedestrian activity, home building,...London 2024 looks much more like London 2019 - or better- than any American city full stop.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Easy

Transit returning to normal, pedestrian activity, home building,...London 2024 looks much more like London 2019 - or better- than any American city full stop.

full stop? oh wul alrighty then. carry on nigel.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by muppet

The big thing the city and UK overall has to deal with is Brexit. London's managed to coast it by replacing EU workers with those from further afield -the only thing Brexit did other than lose 200 billion in trade was bring in absolute record shattering numbers of migrants (1.2 million a year at last count, comparable to the US).

Only 1.2 million per year? That's even less than much-smaller Canada.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by muppet

The big thing the city and UK overall has to deal with is Brexit. London's managed to coast it by replacing EU workers with those from further afield -the only thing Brexit did other than lose 200 billion in trade was bring in absolute record shattering numbers of migrants (1.2 million a year at last count, comparable to the US).

slow your roll nigel, especially when illegal immigrants, which do under the table work and are not mentioned below, have averaged 10M for many years.


In fiscal year (FY) 2023, the State Department issued 10.4 million temporary visas for tourists, international students, and others, up from 8.7 million in FY 2019. Inside the United States, the 969,000 immigrants who became citizens in FY 2022, after spending years as lawful permanent residents (LPRs, or green-card holders), represented the largest naturalization total since FY 2008.

Worldwide, the United States is home to more international migrants than any other country, and more than the next four countries—Germany, Saudi Arabia, Russia, and the United Kingdom—combined, according to the most recent UN Population Division data, from mid-2020. While the U.S. population represents about 5 percent of the total world population, close to 20 percent of all global migrants reside in the United States.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/arti...ed-states-2024

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by muppet

Central London, once home to the worlds biggest nightlife districts and 24hrs is now quieter than outer zones as Millennials/ Gen Z just go to their locals to party, drink less and spend less - a pint (or increasingly small bottle) is now $10. Pubs now close at the draconian times of 11am, just like they did before, despite the 24hr licensing. Club land is gutted, and this last year has been mind-blowing, almost everyone I meet now comments on how much quieter it's become overnight, kicking a can down Soho or walking your dog/ grandma after a nice little meal.

Ahem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F9p5WSZtjA

I am baffled by young adults' inability to hang out.

For many decades, teenagers and young adults in the United States followed this routine:

1. pre-party at someone's house
2. head out to the concert/bar/event/party around 9pm
3. head to the next concert/bar/event/party around 11pm
4. head to the next concert/bar/event/party around 1am
5. at closing time, either go to a 24-diner (i.e. Waffle House or the Rock & Roll Denny's), go to an after-party at someone's house, go to an after-hours bar/dance place of some type (possibly an illegal bar), or (if you're a musician) go to someone's house and jam until 6am
6. ride the first bus back to your apartment
7. sleep until 3pm
8. do it again, for about 7-8 years, then get a real job, move to the suburbs, and start voting Republican.

[mrnyc]

young people dont drink anymore either. it got awful in the west village as we all used to have the place to ourselves on weekend mornings while the party age slept it off. now they are up at the crack of dawn on weekends doing coffee, yoga, running, early brunch and whatever and you can’t escape them.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

young people dont drink anymore either. it got awful in the west village as we all used to have the place to ourselves on weekend mornings while the party age slept it off. now they are up at the crack of dawn on weekends doing coffee, yoga, running, early brunch and whatever and you can’t escape them.

Yeah I have to wonder if the competition to look as healthy as possible on Instagram is motivating this staid behavior.

Smoking cigarettes used to keep people thin, meaning you didn't have to exercise (just ask Kate Moss). I know a fair number of women who quit smoking cigarettes in their 30s who abruptly inflated from 120lbs to 220lbs.

As for London vs. U.S. cities...the banking laws are different in every U.S. state. For a long time there were a lot of banking activities that had to be conducted by an in-state bank, which limited their size. Even after deregulation, which led to the U.S. having about five giant banks and then about 500 smaller ones, there are still significant differences between states. That's how we ended up with tiny Delaware being the home of credit card companies + its weird Court of Chancery.

It's also the case that cities in the Mountain and Pacific time zones can't really be financial hubs since they aren't in New York's time zone. It also explains why Miami, specifically, has been able to rise as a financial hub in a way that other vacation-oriented U.S. places like Hawaii cannot.

But it should also be mentioned that a big reason why the U.S. is so dynamic is because various major industries are concentrated in different regions of the country (in various time zones, climates, etc.) in a way that can't happen in smaller countries, where a single city tends to dominate all realms.

[nito]

Originally Posted by tdawg

Muppet, I’m curious how Brexit has brought in a record number of migrants? I thought a goal of brexit was to stem immigration?

In the leadup to the referendum, the term ’immigration’ was ranked as the most important issue facing the country by a rather staggering 56% of those polled. Fast forward to early 2020 and it was just 5% despite net migration being broadly the same, and the share of migrants from outside the EU increasing. It’s still a complicated subject, but the messaging in the media certainly has a part to play, particularly when polling on a personal level shows broad positive acceptance of immigrants. Brexit has crated issues, but little for London.

The primary concern for London at the moment is the cost and availability of housing. London probably needs an additional one million homes to adequately support the current population, let alone a population racing towards 10 million.

Originally Posted by tdawg

Muppet, I’m curious how Brexit has brought in a record number of migrants? I thought a goal of brexit was to stem immigration?

The ONS is yet to publish the latest country of birth data, but considering that the Commonwealth has a combined population of 2.4bn, and includes many high growth countries, it wouldn’t be a surprise that Commonwealth countries would be key migrant groups.


Source: ONS, https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...endingjune2023

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

young people dont drink anymore either. it got awful in the west village as we all used to have the place to ourselves on weekend mornings while the party age slept it off. now they are up at the crack of dawn on weekends doing coffee, yoga, running, early brunch and whatever and you can’t escape them.

Yeah this is definitely a trend. NYC (and likely other cities?) have moved closer to LA, culturally, with much earlier rising and more morning health/fitness/wellness routines, especially among younger folks. The gym and spa are the new clubs.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yeah this is definitely a trend. NYC (and likely other cities?) have moved closer to LA, culturally, with much earlier rising and more morning health/fitness/wellness routines, especially among younger folks. The gym and spa are the new clubs.

I'm skeptical about this. I just saw someone complaining on Twitter about how impossible it is to find a gym open after 8pm in NYC. When I was in my 20s you could easily find 24-hour gyms in the city, and even the most mom-and-pop operation was open until at least 9pm. On the other hand, there are more bars now than ever before.

[jmecklenborg]

^interesting.

What's especially bizarre about the decline in drinking is that Uber/Lyft have taken the place of the "designated driver". Getting home from parties/bars used to often involve mammoth walks in the middle of the night.

I had a conversation on this subway with one of my uncles about 10 years ago and a check with Mapquest confirmed a 9-mile distance for one of his alleged walks home in the 1980s.

Of course, other times, you simply passed out in someone's house and then woke up not knowing where you were the next morning.

[Crawford]

Basically all the bars in the collegetown around my undergrad university have closed, and many of the retail spaces are now wellness-oriented. Laser hair removal, oxygen/IV drip therapy, juice bars, breathing clinics and other weird stuff. Also, smartphones have made the old "meet at the bar and gameplan" irrelevant.

You see this stuff all over urban cores too. Certainly in NYC. You can get your IV drip therapy as a building amenity now. Granted, it's anecdotal, but I do believe younger folks are more into wellness (or arguably quack wellness).

[woodrow]

Okay - so totally anecdotal and very limited from a time frame, but London seems to be bumping. I moved here last November and it seems to be doing really well. Tons of construction, trains packed, not nearly as much empty retail as when I visited in 2021 and 2022. How any of that "beats" American cities I don't know.

Still has issues. I just read an article about the problems retail and restaurants are having in The City, especially on Fridays. No one there. Same for Canary Wharf. Part of that is because there are so many newish areas in London that companies are now cated in and part of it is post Covid remote work. About the latter. WAY more people in office as a percentage than in the US. I am now required in the office 4 days a week, versus no requirement in the US. This is not an outlier. People are still working remotely or hybrid but seems to lean more to the latter.

Bars, pubs, clubs - wth? That surprised me. I live in a quiet part of London but we have 6 pubs in the hood and most close at 23:00 (ha) with 2 closing at midnight. That is fine because I am an old and want the kids off my lawn, but when my hubby and I do want to rage it seems like there are fewer late night options than even Chicago. Again, I am an old and I am sure I am missing where the cool kids go but I do find it surprisingly quiet. I blame Gen-Z.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Qubert

It's been way too quiet and peaceful on here....It's time for a Joel Kotkin article!

https://unherd.com/2024/04/why-londo...ericas-cities/

What a weird antagonistic article.

What happens in London vs happens in "American cities" writ large is entirely unrelated.

Might as well say how London is "beating" Congolese cities.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Basically all the bars in the collegetown around my undergrad university have closed, and many of the retail spaces are now wellness-oriented. Laser hair removal, oxygen/IV drip therapy, juice bars, breathing clinics and other weird stuff. Also, smartphones have made the old "meet at the bar and gameplan" irrelevant.

You see this stuff all over urban cores too. Certainly in NYC. You can get your IV drip therapy as a building amenity now. Granted, it's anecdotal, but I do believe younger folks are more into wellness (or arguably quack wellness).

I would agree anecdotally that the 20 somethings of today are far less bar-ratty than we were.

IDK if they are all just much more online but it feels like they simply do not go to the bar or the high street or the downtown area to party and socialize as much as we did.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by woodrow

WAY more people in office as a percentage than in the US. I am now required in the office 4 days a week, versus no requirement in the US. This is not an outlier. People are still working remotely or hybrid but seems to lean more to the latter.

The same basically everywhere outside of U.S./Canada. When Covid ended, so did any work accommodations.

First time in generations that U.S. actually has more worker-friendly norms.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yeah this is definitely a trend. NYC (and likely other cities?) have moved closer to LA, culturally, with much earlier rising and more morning health/fitness/wellness routines, especially among younger folks. The gym and spa are the new clubs.

Embrace tradition. Bring back psychotic Roman fitness and grooming!

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Ahem:

1. pre-party at someone's house
2. head out to the concert/bar/event/party around 9pm
3. head to the next concert/bar/event/party around 11pm
4. head to the next concert/bar/event/party around 1am
5. at closing time, either go to a 24-diner (i.e. Waffle House or the Rock & Roll Denny's), go to an after-party at someone's house, go to an after-hours bar/dance place of some type (possibly an illegal bar), or (if you're a musician) go to someone's house and jam until 6am
6. ride the first bus back to your apartment
7. sleep until 3pm
8. do it again, for about 7-8 years, then get a real job, move to the suburbs, and start voting Republican.

The quintessential 20th century 20-something experience.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Also, smartphones have made the old "meet at the bar and gameplan" irrelevant.

Yeah well these people are going to hit age 30 with no stories. Going out into the physical social world means you run into former coworkers, former roommates, former girlfriends, the friends of former girlfriends who you find out always had a thing for you, etc.