noirish Los Angeles

[OutlawImages]

Originally Posted by Joe Gillis

Another one from my 'This is Hollywood' guide book that I'm not sure has gotten a mention here, though I could be wrong

'Just a few blocks north of Hollywood Blvd lie the remains of a once beautiful 148 acre estate...After passing through the main gates leading into the grounds a crumbling road takes you past the foundation and steps of what was once an English Gothic mansion......further up the curving road are the remains of tennis courts, two swimming pools and several cottages'



Google

Pretty sure that the tennis court in the centre of the grounds here.



And a chunk of ruins here

Here are the stairs



http://loretta-ayeroff.photoshelter....0001aWw1hN3C20

Estate was built 1919-20 by Carman Randolph Runyon, who sold it to Irish Tenor John McCormack in the '20s.


John McCormack

In 1942 Supermarket magnate Huntington Hartford bought the estate and let it slowly deteriorate over the period upto the early 60's

He lived to 97!!



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obit...-Hartford.html

anyone have any pictures of the original house??

Looks like the house was known as 'The Pines' and was once inhabited by Errol Flynn!

Here is a couple links with photos of The Pines back in the day, and currently
https://hollywoodphotographs.com/cat...nyonthe-pines/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6071941...7626436710366/

Just HATE seeing places like this just get destroyed for no reason

[Retired_in_Texas]

Originally Posted by OutlawImages

Disappointing to see great buildings like this keep getting destroyed

Europe and back east have buildings going back hundreds of years , yet we on the California west coast seem to tearthings down within 50 -100 years on a rotating basis

I would love to see a gas station or any old historic buildings be given incentives to stay in business and keep the older businesses rather than tearing them down.

Tax breaks, etc if you take a station like this and retrofit modern technology masked by time period pieces. New gas pump mechanics inside of old pumps so the "look" was still there

I know I am dreaming, but isnt that what we all do here LOL

Would be nice to start saving older buildings some how and making it a money maker to keep them rather than tear them down

For the most part I would agree you are "dreaming." What I suspect most who enjoy this forum are doing is "enjoying" a visitation with what was and even perhaps their younger days. Good reason for that as these times past were less stressful times filled with enthusiasm for the future.

Now about saving old structures. As you point out there are structures in Europe that are hundreds of years old. Some even more than a thousand years old. Unfortunately most of the structures built in this country in the 1800s and early 1900s were cheaply built in spite of their often stately appearance. We are experts in the field of slap it up as quickly as possible for as little as possible; whereas the buildings in Europe you refer to were constructed with heavy masonry walls both inside and out and often on solid rock foundations; often taking years and years to complete. The masonry veneer building even over a steel skeleton does not necessarily lend itself to long term survival and those with wood skeletons are even less likely to survive. Wood skeleton buildings, including individual homes, can easily deteriorate to the point it is economically foolhardy to even attempt to bring them up to current codes anywhere. In many cases it is totally impossible to remodel an old building to make it income productive and even if one does a bang up job of restoration it still takes tenants that desire the appearance and can themselves make money in a given location.

All across America since the 200 year celebration of the country people have been attempting to restore "main street" in every town. Most attempts are gross failures for one simple reason, parking. Today's consumer is mentally conditioned to parking within a short distance of where they are going to shop or eat. Without construction of parking facilities the main streets of America that died due to shopping centers and freeways can never be resurrected to provide the same use utility they once did.

[Lwize]

We can always lament the loss of structures around LA torn down in the name of progress, but honestly so much of old LA was lost due to deterioration beyond restoration and plenty of powerful earthquakes throughout the 20th Century.

If DTLA were on the East coast, dozens of old buildings would still be standing where parking lots are now.

[belmont bob]

Originally Posted by Mr.Swink

I know we have talked about the Eagle Rock Substation before at 7888 N. Figueroa Ave. in Eagle Rock. Here are a few pictures I took on a tech scout for a tv series. And no, I cannot say what series, the non-disclosure agreement I signed prevents me from saying. All three photos by Mr.Swink

The old Southern California Edison facility - Eagle Rock Substation was built about 1914 as part of the new transmission line from the new Big Creek line from the hydro plants near Yosemite. The KCET site mentions that it was an old power plant. Actually it never was a generating plant but only a substation. I’ve been there several times during my 22 plus years with SCE, which I retired from on Dec. 1. The large open room contained a rotary condenser rather than a generator (although the two devises looked similar). Besides offices and control room the upper floors contained circuit breakers and relays and other gear. Later the outdated equipment was removed from some areas and the space used for storage of old records. A small dam and reservoir at the top of the canyon held water used by long gone cooling towers that the condenser required. The dam is still there and most of the time the water is green.
But the most intriguing is the basement. It is pitch black and accessed by ladder. A drain channel runs though the middle from the dam uphill from the building down towards the 134 freeway. It’s really a scary place to go and within our engineering group we always suggested to never go there alone. Although I never saw any I’m told the building is full of black widow spiders and there are rattle snakes in the surrounding hills. There used to be a row of 6 small cottages up near the dam for the operators to live in back in the old days when the local area was rural. Other than some concrete steps there is nothing left of any of them. Today the place in unmanned, operated and monitored by fiber optic lines and satellite
This is still an operating electric substation at 220,000 to 66,000 volts. When movie companies are shooting there it an extra burden on SCE personnel to be sure that the nothing is damaged or no one gets killed. All in all, it’s a creepy but fascinating place.

[alester young]

Originally Posted by Lwize

We can always lament the loss of structures around LA torn down in the name of progress, but honestly so much of old LA was lost due to deterioration beyond restoration and plenty of powerful earthquakes throughout the 20th Century.

If DTLA were on the East coast, dozens of old buildings would still be standing where parking lots are now.

Other major factors were the automobile and the growth of the freeways. Huge swathes of buildings on the fringes of Bunker Hill and Downtown were lost this way. Let's also not forget Berkeley Square.

The exponential growth of the city in the first half of the twentieth century also rendered buildings obsolete in very short periods of time -the first two post offices barely lasted 20-30 years. The City Hall, Law Courts and other Administrative Buildings also had to be reprovided when the originals became too small.

It's easy to look at this from a half glass full perspective, but what is really amazing is the number of survivors out there (albeit often remodelled).

The real threat is from earthquakes -these have taken out so many good buildings just in the last 50 years or so. We have to hope on a wing and a prayer that L.A. escapes from having anything bad in the future.

Alester

[alester young]

Originally Posted by HenryHuntington

This morning's Los Angeles Times contains a remarkable story about aging concrete structures and the danger they might pose during the next major earthquake:

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-e...5748.htmlstory

Clicking on the blue "Explore the buildings" box at the lower-right corner of the main title video will take you to a thumbnail sketch and aerial photo of each of 68 possibly at-risk structures in the city. At least some of them might be old faves of some of our regular contributors here, while others might've escaped notice until now.

Surprisingly, some modernist structures from the 1950s-70s (mostly in the Valley, a few in Westwood) made the list, so some discretion is advised. But DTLA and Hollywood are target-rich neighborhoods, so have at them with gusto.

Of course, the obverse side of this coin (besides the promotion of public safety) is that time might be of the essence if any of you are interested in visiting or photographing any of these buildings. The Sylmar, Whittier Narrows and Northridge earthquakes more than decimated the warehouse district that fascinated me, so I speak from some experience. Seismic events tend not to make reservations, they arrive on our doorstep when they will.

The L.A.Times article posted by HenryHuntington is a reminder of the risk to older concrete structures from seismic activity.

Alester

[oldstuff]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

Here?
ebay
1960s

Not quite, but close. it is just on the other side of Hope Street

[alester young]

Originally Posted by HossC

I spotted this postcard on Ebay recently, and I can't find it in any previous postings. It's the Motel de Ville, 1123 West 7th Street.



Ebay

Knowing how the parallel blocks of nearby Wilshire and 6th have changed since this era, I thought there was little chance of finding it still standing. How wrong I was. The current owners have even made use of the original strange shapes on the blade sign. The only things that are missing are the pointy wall sign and the stone wall on the roadside building.


GSV

The Hotel Commodore/Commodore Apartments in the background look like the sort of place where something noirish might have happened. It's been there since at least the early '20s, but I haven't seen it mentioned before. I thought e_r might like the large roof sign .

Your instincts were right, e_r, about this somewhat noirish looking place. The Commodore (then signaged as New Hotel Commodore) featured in the 1947 Paramount film noir "Fear in the Night". It was the refuge of the character/ murderer Lewis Belknap. There is also a cliff hanger episode where the "hero", Vince Grayson, contemplates suicide and has to be dragged back from an upper floor window ledge. There are also various shots from The Commodore down West 7th Street.

If anyone is interested in seeing the film, it is on Youtube. Hotel facade/ 7th St. shown at 40:45.

[fhammon]

Is there really gold buried in the Chauenga Pass?

(1882)* - Before roads and rail lines were built traveling through the Cahuenga Pass was by wagons and horses or on foot. This picture was taken at the summit. There is a saloon concealed among the trees.

http://waterandpower.org/museum/Earl...0-1920%29.html

Exterior view of Cahuenga Tavern in Cahuenga Pass.

As the legend goes, in 1865 a ranch hand named Diego Moreno stole a fortune in gold and jewels from supporters of Mexican president Benito Juárez. Moreno stopped for a drink at a tavern along the Cahuenga Pass and had a premonition that if he brought the treasure into L.A., he’d be struck dead. So he reportedly buried it next to an ash tree. After making his descent into the pueblo, he fell sick and died, but not before disclosing the whereabouts of his stash to a friend, who reached the tree just before he, too, dropped dead. The story got out, and scavengers have been looking ever since.

http://www.lamag.com/citythink/askch...he-cahuenga-p1

Maj Horace Bell excellently tells the story here in his 2nd book "Reminiscences of the Old West Coast" (full text)

http://www.familytreelegends.com/rec...c=read&page=88

[fhammon]

Originally Posted by Joe Gillis

Another one from my 'This is Hollywood' guide book that I'm not sure has gotten a mention here, though I could be wrong

'Just a few blocks north of Hollywood Blvd lie the remains of a once beautiful 148 acre estate...After passing through the main gates leading into the grounds a crumbling road takes you past the foundation and steps of what was once an English Gothic mansion......further up the curving road are the remains of tennis courts, two swimming pools and several cottages'



Pretty sure that the tennis court in the centre of the grounds here.
And a chunk of ruins here
Here are the stairs



http://loretta-ayeroff.photoshelter....0001aWw1hN3C20

Estate was built 1919-20 by Carman Randolph Runyon, who sold it to Irish Tenor John McCormack in the '20s.

In 1942 Supermarket magnate Huntington Hartford bought the estate and let it slowly deteriorate over the period upto the early 60's

He lived to 97!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obit...-Hartford.html

anyone have any pictures of the original house??

Looks like the house was known as 'The Pines' and was once inhabited by Errol Flynn!

The "gardens" on the grounds were apparently sufficiently lush enough in 1980 to be used in the re-shot ending of the film "The Earthling".

Strong reviewed every foot of film that had been printed, seeking alternative shots. He filmed a new ending with the old Huntington Hartford estate in Hollywood doubling for the Australian jungle. Holden, Ricky Schroder, and the entire crew worked for no pay.

http://www.adherents.com/people/ph/William_Holden.html

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by Joe Gillis

Another one from my 'This is Hollywood' guide book that I'm not sure has gotten a mention here, though I could be wrong

'Just a few blocks north of Hollywood Blvd lie the remains of a once beautiful 148 acre estate...After passing through the main gates leading into the grounds a crumbling road takes you past the foundation and steps of what was once an English Gothic mansion......further up the curving road are the remains of tennis courts, two swimming pools and several cottages'



Google

Pretty sure that the tennis court in the centre of the grounds here.



And a chunk of ruins here

Here are the stairs



http://loretta-ayeroff.photoshelter....0001aWw1hN3C20

Estate was built 1919-20 by Carman Randolph Runyon, who sold it to Irish Tenor John McCormack in the '20s.


John McCormack

In 1942 Supermarket magnate Huntington Hartford bought the estate and let it slowly deteriorate over the period upto the early 60's

He lived to 97!!



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obit...-Hartford.html

anyone have any pictures of the original house??

Looks like the house was known as 'The Pines' and was once inhabited by Errol Flynn!

Here is a website with a few images of "The Pines".
https://hollywoodphotographs.com/cat...nyonthe-pines/

[Martin Pal]

This is The City of Beverly Hills float that was in this year's Rose Parade, commemorating their centennial. The City of Beverly Hills will turn 100 on January 28, 2014!

City of Beverly Hills float:
KTLA

The float pictures some things the city is known for, like their iconic "shield" sign. On the side you can see the sign representing the park that was built even before Beverly Hills became a city.

A photo of Beverly Hills Park and Lily pond (taken 1916) at Santa Monica Blvd. & Canon Drive.
hollywoodhistoricphotos
Currently, the lily pond is undergoing a restoration and the park should be back open soon.

Also depicted on the float, the Beverly Hills City Hall which opened in 1932.

City Hall, 1932, the year it opened:
DWP

Here's the City Hall in 1946:
hollywoodhistoricphotos

A smallish view of the neighboring post office with City Hall in the background:


Larger view of the Post Office:
Beverly Hills Historical Society

In the 1950 noir film IN A LONELY PLACE, Humphrey Bogart mails a letter in the post office and then walks outside. The City Hall is prominently featured in the shot.

The Post Office was decommissioned by the postal service several years ago and was sitting vacant. It has been turned into the "Wallis Annenberg Center for the Performing Arts" which opened last fall. An adjacent building has been built next to the post office building which houses another part of the center.

Some posters on Noirish L.A. occasionally mention what it would be like to visit Los Angeles of the past. For the Beverly Hills Centennial celebration:

The city’s five leading hotels have teamed up in an unusual celebration of Beverly Hills' centennial called "Suite 100," creating suites themed to different decades from the past one hundred years. Each will begin accepting reservations in January, but you’ll only have till the end of the year before the period pieces will be removed and the suites returned to their present-day state.

Here's the 1940's suite:


Caption: The Montage Beverly Hills heads back to the 1940s, with a sultry suite designed by Nina Petronzio. If you find yourself suffering from writer’s block as you work on your noir screenplay at the vintage typewriter, take advantage of the “champagne” button to have a bottle delivered to your door (from $1,914 per night).

SEE THE OTHERS AT THIS LINK HERE:
C.N. TRAVELER

[Martin Pal]

Originally Posted by Moxie

[…] ...the Rose Parade, […] I thought I'd share a few of my grandparents photos […]

P.S.: I loved the vintage "personal" Rose Parade pictures, Moxie, thanks for posting them!

[OutlawImages]

Originally Posted by Retired_in_Texas

For the most part I would agree you are "dreaming." What I suspect most who enjoy this forum are doing is "enjoying" a visitation with what was and even perhaps their younger days. Good reason for that as these times past were less stressful times filled with enthusiasm for the future.

Now about saving old structures. As you point out there are structures in Europe that are hundreds of years old. Some even more than a thousand years old. Unfortunately most of the structures built in this country in the 1800s and early 1900s were cheaply built in spite of their often stately appearance. We are experts in the field of slap it up as quickly as possible for as little as possible; whereas the buildings in Europe you refer to were constructed with heavy masonry walls both inside and out and often on solid rock foundations; often taking years and years to complete. The masonry veneer building even over a steel skeleton does not necessarily lend itself to long term survival and those with wood skeletons are even less likely to survive. Wood skeleton buildings, including individual homes, can easily deteriorate to the point it is economically foolhardy to even attempt to bring them up to current codes anywhere. In many cases it is totally impossible to remodel an old building to make it income productive and even if one does a bang up job of restoration it still takes tenants that desire the appearance and can themselves make money in a given location.

All across America since the 200 year celebration of the country people have been attempting to restore "main street" in every town. Most attempts are gross failures for one simple reason, parking. Today's consumer is mentally conditioned to parking within a short distance of where they are going to shop or eat. Without construction of parking facilities the main streets of America that died due to shopping centers and freeways can never be resurrected to provide the same use utility they once did.

Yes like I admitted I know I am dreaming because developers etc will always win out it seems because they are spending large amounts of cash buying property, paying taxes, building permits etc which cities love. And we/I am just a sentimental lover of history and our past, but that isnt lining pockets is it.

Not sure I agree with your assessment that "built in this country in the 1800s and early 1900s were cheaply" . I am sure there were cheap construction of buildings then like now of course.Would buildings I can see being more of a problem because of termites,flooding, settling or sinking ground causing foundation failures etc.

But I see majority of the older buildings of brick,rock,etc being torn down for mini malls and financial gain not because of bad construction. Plenty have been left to the elements and homeless to tear them up, but have sound buildings that could be renovated. But developers seem to prefer mini malls of stucco and particle board to old fashion brick work or in my region granite block construction

Retired _in_Texas I am in no way trying to question your view or opinion just wishful for things of days gone by to be saved. But realize I am the minority opinion in a world preferring mini malls and condos

Happy New Years

[CityBoyDoug]

Many car parts were in scarce supply during the Korean War era. Want those snazzy Cad fins or Dual Chrome tail pipes?

If one was a custom car enthusiast in 1951 you could accessorize it at:


H.A.M.B.

This is the old location...near downtown LA, that we see in the distance [left].


GSV

The implication was that if your car was hot....you were hot.

[JeffDiego]

Originally Posted by OutlawImages

Yes like I admitted I know I am dreaming because developers etc will always win out it seems because they are spending large amounts of cash buying property, paying taxes, building permits etc which cities love. And we/I am just a sentimental lover of history and our past, but that isnt lining pockets is it.

Not sure I agree with your assessment that "built in this country in the 1800s and early 1900s were cheaply" . I am sure there were cheap construction of buildings then like now of course.Would buildings I can see being more of a problem because of termites,flooding, settling or sinking ground causing foundation failures etc.

But I see majority of the older buildings of brick,rock,etc being torn down for mini malls and financial gain not because of bad construction. Plenty have been left to the elements and homeless to tear them up, but have sound buildings that could be renovated. But developers seem to prefer mini malls of stucco and particle board to old fashion brick work or in my region granite block construction

Retired _in_Texas I am in no way trying to question your view or opinion just wishful for things of days gone by to be saved. But realize I am the minority opinion in a world preferring mini malls and condos

Happy New Years

Couldn't agree more. Vast numbers of those grand hotels, opera houses, stone and brick and marble mansions, Romanesque railway stations, libraries, office buildings etc. in large American cities in the late 1800's and early 1900's were NOT cheaply constructed. Who knows how many would have lasted centuries if well-maintained? Many were already being abandoned and demolished by the 1920's.


The epitome of cheap, tacky, impermanent construction - the dingbat apartment buildings of Los Angeles built by the thousands from the 1950's through the 1970's/80's - a cheap wood and sheetrock skeleton covered with tar paper, chicken wire and sprayed with stucco - are still standing strong and fully-occupied although many are 60 years old. The wonderful old Craftsman and Spanish etc. houses they replaced (admittedly not as sturdy as the big impressive buildings of the 1880's through early 1900's) were bulldozed en masse by developers after only 30 or 40 years.

In the end, though. it doesn't really matter. Most of those wonderfully imaginative and atmospheric old structures are gone, their likes never to be seen again. Thanks to sites like this we at least have photographs.

[Retired_in_Texas]

Originally Posted by OutlawImages

Yes like I admitted I know I am dreaming because developers etc will always win out it seems because they are spending large amounts of cash buying property, paying taxes, building permits etc which cities love. And we/I am just a sentimental lover of history and our past, but that isnt lining pockets is it.

Not sure I agree with your assessment that "built in this country in the 1800s and early 1900s were cheaply" . I am sure there were cheap construction of buildings then like now of course.Would buildings I can see being more of a problem because of termites,flooding, settling or sinking ground causing foundation failures etc.

But I see majority of the older buildings of brick,rock,etc being torn down for mini malls and financial gain not because of bad construction. Plenty have been left to the elements and homeless to tear them up, but have sound buildings that could be renovated. But developers seem to prefer mini malls of stucco and particle board to old fashion brick work or in my region granite block construction

Retired _in_Texas I am in no way trying to question your view or opinion just wishful for things of days gone by to be saved. But realize I am the minority opinion in a world preferring mini malls and condos

Happy New Years

Heh, heh. I suspect there are just about as many opinions of what took place over the last 120 years in L.A. as there are participants in this forum. One could write quite a book on the subject. In general I would conclude that the automobile was both a boon and a bane and its existence the fuel that resulted in what L.A. has become. That may well be the true "Noirish" aspect of L.A.

I suspect you may have interpreted some of my comments incorrectly though. I'm a serious collector of vintage automobiles and road maps as well. I'm also one who appreciates great and sometimes not so great architecture from times past. Nothing makes me happier than jumping into a 1950s or 1960s car and taking to the two lane highways that wind through now long ago by-passed towns to look for surviving examples of Americana before it was laid waste to by what are labeled as Interstate Highways. Ironically those old two lane highways in the 1920s and 1930s were commonly called Interstate Highways.

[Those Who Squirm!]

Ah, Beverly Hills memories. I've mentioned before how BH, until about 1975 or 80 still retained some of the character of a small town, with ordinary drugstores, coffeeshop style restaurants, cafeterias, and even a J.J. Newberry's. It wasn't unlike some of the north side suburbs of Chicago--tending towards the upscale, but still decidedly middle class.

Another thing I've said before is that ponds and fountains in this region inevitably turn into planters. I remember the lilies and frogs I saw as a child in the mid to late 1960s--but the pond was drained and filled in many years ago, probably some time in the late 1970s. What used to be the large rectangular pond is now mostly just a raised grassy area, still bounded by that low, wide wall. It must be said, though, that it's still a very attractive park; the city gardeners of BH do a superb job.

Are they really going to bring back the pond?

I wonder what they did with all the koi, when they drained it all?

Originally Posted by Martin Pal

A photo of Beverly Hills Park and Lily pond (taken 1916) at Santa Monica Blvd. & Canon Drive.
hollywoodhistoricphotos
Currently, the lily pond is undergoing a restoration and the park should be back open soon.

[Martin Pal]

Originally Posted by Those Who Squirm

Ah, Beverly Hills memories. I've mentioned before how BH, until about 1975 or 80 still retained some of the character of a small town, with ordinary drugstores, coffeeshop style restaurants, cafeterias, and even a J.J. Newberry's. It wasn't unlike some of the north side suburbs of Chicago--tending towards the upscale, but still decidedly middle class.

Another thing I've said before is that ponds and fountains in this region inevitably turn into planters. I remember the lilies and frogs I saw as a child in the mid to late 1960s--but the pond was drained and filled in many years ago, probably some time in the late 1970s. What used to be the large rectangular pond is now mostly just a raised grassy area, still bounded by that low, wide wall. It must be said, though, that it's still a very attractive park; the city gardeners of BH do a superb job.

Are they really going to bring back the pond?

From the article at this link:
http://beverlyhills.patch.com/groups/beverly-gardens-park

The city council approved funding $100,000 to restore the lily pond at Beverly Gardens Park in August. Construction is slated for a Jan. 20, 2014 completion.

Aside from restoring the lily pond, other notable restoration tasks and notes include:
Restoring the circular fountain
New plantings at the water features
Retaining the photo opportunity area
Bollard lighting on the pathways
Existing trees to remain in place
Protect the Moreton Bay Fig tree
Relocate the the Mediterranean fan palm to the Palm Garden
The Friends of Beverly Gardens Park spearheaded the efforts to restore
the 1.9-mile long park, which is located on the block between Beverly
Drive and Canon Drive, along Santa Monica Blvd.


(You can click on a large version of this map in the link provided.)

[ethereal_reality]

ebay


detail


I wish I had a date for this postcard view.

__