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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse
As we've already discussed, we cannot determine capacity this way.
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Of course you can determine capacity that way. You are wrong.
If at rush hour, both systems have virtually all their fleet in use, and a similar spare ratio, then the system which has a much higher capacity fleet, has a higher capacity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse
The same is the case for Montreal where it can only run a 9 car train (which carries the same number of passengers as Toronto's 6 car trains) at about the same interval. So there is not a huge difference in capacity.
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There's surely a higher capacity for Toronto. A 6-car Toronto train is 15% greater in area than a 9-car Montreal train. However Toronto trains have more % of standing space, which you can squeeze more people in. Common sense suggests that the Toronto capacity is likely 20% to 25% more per train. But 20% isn't a huge difference, I'd agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse
That is the case only for this one quarterly report,which shows a significant drop for Montreal.
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Look at the reports. The last 3 reports show that "drop". But then read the reported Quarterly change in the report. There isn't any, there's actually an increase. If you compare the Q1, Q2, and Q3 2012 reports, they've restated the Q1, Q2, Q3 2011 numbers. Clearly there was an error in the old reporting that's now been fixed.
I've said for years that the reports don't make sense, as even if the trains are a similar capacity, and the system is a similar length - Toronto trains are more frequent, and packed to capacity at peak ... and quite full off-peak ... so how can Montreal have higher ridership?
The answer clearly is that now they've fixed the numbers, that the Toronto subway carries about 75% more people than the Montreal subway.
Though to tell the truth, the more I dig, the more I get the impression while the 2011 reports seemed to be overstating Montreal compared to Toronto, the 2012 reports seem to be understating Montreal compared to Toronto. Total passenger trips (linked) for Toronto is about 25% higher than Montreal according to STM and TTC annual reports ... and revenue numbers suggest similar. And yet the APTA numbers now suggest that Montreal is much less ... unless Toronto riders make significantly more transfers than in Montreal ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse
The point that I'm trying to make is a rather simple one. The Toronto Subway and the Montreal Metro are quite similar in terms of capacity.
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If the trains ran a similar frequency, then I'd agree.
However, the green line and orange line in Montreal are only 20 trains per hour in AM peak (at pm peak green is 15 trains per hour and orange is 20) - in Toronto the YUS and BD are both over 25 trains per hour in AM peak and are both about 24 trains per hour in PM peak.
Off-peak Toronto is never worse than 12 trains per hour on YUS and BD (and about 11 on Sheppard), with service for about 19.5 hours per day. In Montreal service gets as low 6 trains per hour (and even a bit worse near closing) with about 19 hours a day of service.
With more frequent trains, Toronto has a higher capacity both at peak and off-peak. And the greater capacity of the Toronto fleet as a whole reflects that. As does Toronto's higher ridership numbers.
Though I've stressed the differences ... the more closely you look, just how similar Montreal and Toronto are is amazing. Particularly if you ignore Toronto's streetcars and ICTS!