(YEG) Edmonton International Airport Part 4 (October 2023)

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by Rocket252

^ Yes I am seeing that by for example booking a flight from Fort Mac to AMS. There is still the prevailing option of connecting through YYC while some days we do see the second option as connecting through YEG. Maybe this will change in some way with additional code sharing on Westjets side. Or possibly the tweaking of connecting flight schedules to feed more traffic for these additional KLM flights. In this way KLM gets more passengers to fill its new flights and WestJet gets more traffic on its domestic routes to YEG plus still keeping its own long international flights based in YYC.

There had to be discussions between KLM, WestJet and EIA on this.

I doubt there is too much coordination on WestJet's side to make short routes from YMM to YEG for example more full if someone is flying YMM-YEG-AMS. I believe it's more about making it more convenient to choose WS than AC than KL in that order. WestJet's first choice is for you to fly YMM-YYC-CDG-AMS then YMM-YEG-AMS on KLM then YMM-YYZ-AMS on Air Canada. And obviously they have no interest in the latter option for you but WestJet also isn't looking at convenience for you in letting you pick the 2nd option with KLM that's why it's not even an option on the WestJet side. The tag on flight past YEG and YYC is probably small potatoes. Probably the only way it would work is if WS and KL revenue shared on these flights but that would also hurt their YYC operations so that won't happen either.

[s211]

Originally Posted by LO 044

I doubt there is too much coordination on WestJet's side to make short routes from YMM to YEG for example more full if someone is flying YMM-YEG-AMS. I believe it's more about making it more convenient to choose WS than AC than KL in that order. WestJet's first choice is for you to fly YMM-YYC-CDG-AMS then YMM-YEG-AMS on KLM then YMM-YYZ-AMS on Air Canada. And obviously they have no interest in the latter option for you but WestJet also isn't looking at convenience for you in letting you pick the 2nd option with KLM that's why it's not even an option on the WestJet side. The tag on flight past YEG and YYC is probably small potatoes. Probably the only way it would work is if WS and KL revenue shared on these flights but that would also hurt their YYC operations so that won't happen either.

I went through this exact issue last week, and I can confirm it's true. There was no clean option in/out of Edmonton using Westjet's website.

It's hard to understand why it's such an issue, and yet the current situation is so poor, I'm surprised there's any code sharing at all between Westjet and KLM.

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by s211

I went through this exact issue last week, and I can confirm it's true. There was no clean option in/out of Edmonton using Westjet's website.

It's hard to understand why it's such an issue, and yet the current situation is so poor, I'm surprised there's any code sharing at all between Westjet and KLM.

Because WestJet is more focused on making flights more full at its main hub at Calgary YYC compared to Edmonton YEG.

[OilCity98]

With KLM's success and Air France's expansion into other Canadian cities the past few years.. would be cool to see AF come to YEG maybe on days KLM does not fly.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by OilCity98

With KLM's success and Air France's expansion into other Canadian cities the past few years.. would be cool to see AF come to YEG maybe on days KLM does not fly.

I think KL would have to go daily first. AMS is a way better connecting spot than CDG anyways IMO

[OilCity98]

Originally Posted by hehehe

I think KL would have to go daily first. AMS is a way better connecting spot than CDG anyways IMO

They are both pretty strong connecting hubs, and Paris is more of a destination. It's working pretty well in Ottawa with AF

[ace.yyc]

Originally Posted by OilCity98

They are both pretty strong connecting hubs, and Paris is more of a destination. It's working pretty well in Ottawa with AF

YOW service to CDG isn't daily and you have no KLM at all; not sure how any parameter of that can service can be extrapolated to YEG.

[OilCity98]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

YOW service to CDG isn't daily and you have no KLM at all; not sure how any parameter of that can service can be extrapolated to YEG.

https://obj.ca/air-france-expanding-...paris-service/

It is daily, the service has grown and been successful since its launch. Air France flys to Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa and Quebec City.. with the Westjet YYC-CDG YEG is the largest airport in Canada without this connection, and AF/KLM are one company it makes some sense, say 4x weekly KLM, 3x weekly AF.

[thewave46]

Air France and KLM are owned by the same company.

The market dynamics of the Ottawa region with Quebec next door likely influenced Air France's decision to start service. Doubly so since AF likely knew that many of their passengers who took Montreal-Paris flights actually originated in the Ottawa-Gatineau area.

Since Ottawa was unserved by any airline offering direct service overseas since Air Canada discontinued Europe flights, being the exclusive provider of that provided another advantage.

Whereas Edmonton has no such advantages for Air France. KLM has the advantage in Edmonton precisely because it has no competitor who flies to the same airport in the province. Whereas Westjet serves Paris out of nearby Calgary.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by OilCity98

https://obj.ca/air-france-expanding-...paris-service/

It is daily, the service has grown and been successful since its launch. Air France flys to Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa and Quebec City.. with the Westjet YYC-CDG YEG is the largest airport in Canada without this connection, and AF/KLM are one company it makes some sense, say 4x weekly KLM, 3x weekly AF.

Not sure a daily flight to CDG would work (even your suggested split city flights). Those other cities are large tourist destinations for Europeans. Plus YYC has very large feeder network (WS & Delta) filling their flights.
You never know though. Think most airlines are short on extra planes and the crews to fly them

[ace.yyc]

Originally Posted by OilCity98

say 4x weekly KLM, 3x weekly AF.

I see absolutely no point in this, nor any conceivable advantage for AF/KL, nor anything that can be extrapolated from YOW to YEG as they are completely different markets... I guess that was my point.

[Rocket252]

Best thing right now is getting KLM to increase to a daily flight.

Then look at Condor.

[s211]

Originally Posted by msmariner

Not sure a daily flight to CDG would work (even your suggested split city flights).

Last winter, Westjet's prices to CDG were cheap, and the business class prices were insanely low on sale. I'm no expert, but on the surface that tells me something about YYC/CDG demand?

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by s211

Last winter, Westjet's prices to CDG were cheap, and the business class prices were insanely low on sale. I'm no expert, but on the surface that tells me something about YYC/CDG demand?

That’s winter and considering they are flying daily next winter it must be doing good. Summer prices are high so flights must be near full already.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by s211

Last winter, Westjet's prices to CDG were cheap, and the business class prices were insanely low on sale. I'm no expert, but on the surface that tells me something about YYC/CDG demand?

Can't speak on the money side, but load factors were very good this past winter on CDG.

They wouldn't have increased it to daily for the coming winter if it didn't do well.

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by msmariner

That’s winter and considering they are flying daily next winter it must be doing good. Summer prices are high so flights must be near full already.

Agree. Canada to Europe during winter, the demand usually not as great.
In the Spring/Summer seasons it's a different story and in high demand✅.

Demand from Canada is to sun destinations during winters✅.

[OilCity98]

It is amusing to me that the people who "can't see the point" of Edmonton getting a direct flight live in Calgary.. I think YEG could easily support 3x weekly AF to CDG personally.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by OilCity98

It is amusing to me that the people who "can't see the point" of Edmonton getting a direct flight live in Calgary.. I think YEG could easily support 3x weekly AF to CDG personally.

I don't think anyone here said they can't see the point of YEG getting a flight to CDG, it would of course be good for YEG. But the idea is that AMS on KL is a far better connecting point than CDG, and as AF/KL is one company, it doesn't make sense to split the operation between CDG/AMS rather than make AMS go daily. What reason would there be for AF/KL to split the operation between AMS/CDG?

I mean YYC-AMS was daily for quite a while, even before WS' CDG flight, yet AF was not clamouring to start CDG from there either. YOW is also now going daily on AF, but it could've been kept at 4x weekly and instead KL could start 3x weekly YOW-AMS. But they didn't. Although YOW could arguably support 3x weekly AMS service too.

[ace.yyc]

Originally Posted by Rocket252

Best thing right now is getting KLM to increase to a daily flight.

Originally Posted by OilCity98

I think YEG could easily support 3x weekly AF to CDG personally.

Based on what metric? Just how you feel about the city of Edmonton?

What are the LF on the current KL service, the onward cnx, the business demand (which AF will require more than KL), the number of YEG-originating pax on YYC-AMS/CDG flights... you know all these numbers, right? I do know these numbers as I work here... aside from the actual number of paying pax in J on YEG-AMS cause that's kinda tricky.

[Touch go]

Originally Posted by OilCity98

It is amusing to me that the people who "can't see the point" of Edmonton getting a direct flight live in Calgary.. I think YEG could easily support 3x weekly AF to CDG personally.

curious what makes you think YEG can support that? Any stats to back that up?