Shift: London's Rapid Transit Initiative

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Yeah BRT is just fancy bus service, but if it delivers on the actual 'rapid' part as a frequent, efficient and reliable method of getting places it will get one of those strikes erased.

Problem is the network as built won't really be going places as you mentioned. It will be great if you're Fanshawe student who needs to get to campus from downtown, which may make some Western students jealous.

One day LRT could run down Oxford. It has a pretty wide right of way from Richmond to Adelaide. Approaching Wharncliffe it could follow the CP route a bit on it's journey to Western Road perhaps, avoiding the Wharncliffe and Oxford intersection, rejoining at the curve where Wharncliffe becomes Western Road.

It could also continue along the CP right of way and have stations at Patt's Lane, Wonderland/Sarina and even Hyde Park.

Waterloo Region runs some of their LRT along rail corridors so why can't London do the same? If BRT, routing it on Oxford would make more sense vs a busway.

...But for now this is all a pipe dream once again. We decided where the network will go and where it won't for this generation.

It's London. We think small here. We use the comments section of the London Free Press to guide the 'vision' at City Hall.

So I expect LRT in London sometime around 2070.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by inimrepus

The problem with using Oxford instead is that there isn't much along there. It is almost entirely low density housing. Going along Dundas there are tons of businesses and higher density housing full of people that will use rapid transit.

What do you mean, not a lot?

There are tons and tons of students who live on that stretch of Oxford Street alone. My problem with Dundas is as a lifelong Londoner, I still see that as 'crack alley'. Many buildings still vacant, abandoned, the McCormick factory has been sitting half demolished for god knows how long, crackheads roaming about still, watching drug deals by the police station, its crazy.

[jammer139]

Lane restrictions to start Monday on part of East London Link.


https://london.ctvnews.ca/dundas-str...ject-1.6811256

[jammer139]

Forestry crews have been making progress clearing the trees along the east side of Wellington around Wilkens for the BRT widening work to come. They have also been busy clearing the trees to the east of the bridge on both sides of the river.

[Djeffery]

Very interesting 50 minute interview with the chair of the Transit Commission on the Craig Needles Podcast today. She talks of course about the budget and the call for an audit, and whether the LTC should be moved in house at city hall. Also talks about the service hours that are being funded compared to the needs, and also the very large number of additional hours to service BRT that they won't have funding for (and that's not even the actual operation of BRT, just the hours needed to operate the current LTC to allow people to get from wherever they are to a BRT route. Also dropped in the hints that like Kitchener LRT, the construction might get done before the funding is found to be able to operate BRT.

A link can be found on this page https://londonnewstoday.ca/podcasts

[tyeman200]

Well I could see where money is being wasted.. buses for one.

In 2003/04, LTC finally decided to buy some new buses, after being considered one of the oldest fleets in Ontario (some buses were reaching 35+ years). Problem is that majority of these buses they bought in 2004, are already retired or scrapped. I find that ridiculous when the buses we had before, lasted almost 40 years.

[haljackey]

City approves transit village... without rapid transit. The cancelled east leg BRT would have been close by.


https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...-tower-debated


A similar situation is unfolding at Masonville mall, which was the terminus of the cancelled north LRT, then BRT line

[Djeffery]

"Nothing in the neighbourhood is over 3 stories" the lady says. Does she consider the neighbourhood to only be one square block? 25s fits this area perfectly, not sure what she is smoking.

[jammer139]

First BRT stop being installed. Wonder how long it will be before it is vandalized?



https://london.ctvnews.ca/bus-rapid-...tone-1.6858702

[ssiguy]

^^^ I read the article, and it states that the shelters will be made with reinforced glass which is much harder to break. Added to that, these stations seem to be very well lit and have security cameras and due to being rapid transit stations, they will be much busier than a normal shelter so I think they will be fine. There may be some breakage but no more than any other city's transit station.

As for the stations themselves, they look pleasant, safe, well lit, have good wayfinding, spacious, and well signed to make them easier to identify and locate. Not flashy but quite nice and user friendly.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

and due to being rapid transit stations, they will be much busier than a normal shelter so I think they will be fine. .

Except there is no rapid transit for the next several years, and I'm not even sure most of these are near current transit routes. This one I think it said was Ontario St Northbound, which could only be between Dundas and King going into the Fairgrounds and no buses currently operate on the new westbound bus lane on King St (that Ontario northbound would connect to from Dundas westbound). The area is home to a large street population, I think they chose this area first just to see how well it stands up to vandalism. "no more than other cities's transit stations?", please, this is east London where the very day the new underpass opened, it had vandalism.

[jammer139]

photo in this article about the first bus shelter being installed


https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...rom-the-ground

[jammer139]

The couple of block strip that was dug up just east of Egerton on the north side of Dundas has already had the concrete curbing poured. No signs that they plan to move further east of Burbrook PL as of yet. No sense of urgency on getting the work done it seems.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Are they still calling this system "Shift" or are they removing the "f" to properly reflect what it has become?

[HuronZephyr]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Are they still calling this system "Shift" or are they removing the "f" to properly reflect what it has become?

London is the only city I know of where the city government consistently manages to snatch defeat from what should be the jaws of victory. I've lived here for decades, but can anyone explain why London is so shambolic?

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by HuronZephyr

London is the only city I know of where the city government consistently manages to snatch defeat from what should be the jaws of victory. I've lived here for decades, but can anyone explain why London is so shambolic?

It's hard to answer that but if you look at London's past, it was a more well to do city for decades with lots of white collar jobs and I feel the city rested on it's laurels for many years (and still does). Compared to Kitchener Waterloo region, KW has a lot of Mennonite roots which in my mind is a more entrepreneurial mindset. Sure the Mennonites are as old school as they come but they are hard workers and they build quality. As those Mennonite kids grew up, they maybe left the family religion, but they have kept the culture of entrepreneurship along with the other good things.

It's kind of like the spoiled kid who sits on his ass because everything has been provided to him in life vs the kid that grew up with not much and has a desire to do well. I could be 100% wrong on what I am saying, but I think we all agree that London could easily be a much better city than it is.

The other thing to think about: London hired the same consulting company that other cities hired for their rapid transit. The original plan they presented would have been a game changer for London with light rail and the downtown tunnel. But somehow guys like the owner of Joe Kools is much smarter than the professional transportation planners, so we killed that plan.

[MolsonExport]

that was very uncool of Joe Kool.
UWO also had a large hand in killing the LRT, much to my embarrassment as a prof here.

[jammer139]

It wasn't just Western's fault, although if they had been enthusiastic supporters of a LRT line thru or beside the campus it would have helped alot. Another huge issue and deathblow was the so called transportation experts who recommended a two lane bus only underpass for the CP rail crossing and leaving 2 lanes and sidewalks at grade for everyone else to wait at for trains plus the brain dead underground bus stop at Oxford and Richmond intersection.


If you were going to propose a underpass or an overpass at Richmond for the CP tracks it had to be for everyone including buses, vehicles, pedestrians otherwise is was DOA. I would have voted against the bus only underpass as well.


Given the geo-technical issues with ground water in that area an overpass/elevated Richmond St would have and could be the best engineering design in the future. Use the former street space under the elevated roadway to allow retail and commercial businesses to setup shops, bars and patios underneath and make it a destination.

[bolognium]

Regardless of what you think about the bars, clubs, nightlife, shops, etc on Richmond, it's still the most vibrant corridor in the city.

Slapping a big ugly overpass at the tracks, expropriating buildings, and ruining the pedestrian experience would have been a major loss. Sure the tracks can be annoying if you're stuck at a train for 15 minutes, but when the tracks are clear there is basically no physical or psychological barrier. Richmond isn't wide enough for a 4-lane tunnel to have worked, and a 4-lane overpass would have been a massive step backwards as far is vibrant downtown urban planning is concerned. I think it makes sense why the 2-lane rapid transit tunnel was what was ultimately proposed.

[Djeffery]

Just go over to Adelaide and Bathurst or Highbury and Oakland Ave to see what nice opportunities could be had at Richmond with an overpass over the CP Rail. It would have been a disaster. I still have yet to see a reason why Wharncliffe couldn't have worked as the north route, but there was this fixation that RT whether L or B needed to go up Richmond Row.