Winnipeg or Québec - 1 Million

[harls]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The two cities are integrated as an economic unit but culturally/socially are pretty separate from each other. So often, from an Ottawa point of view, Gatineau doesn't really "feel" like part of the city.

Yeah that is a load of poop. Go to Costco in Gatineau and take a look at all the people with a cart of two-fours that can't speak French. Or go to Ikea in Ottawa and try to not hear someone not speak joual.

[MolsonExport]

Every time I visit my wife's brother's family in Ottawa (3 times per year), we end up spending time in Gatineau and environs.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

Yeah that is a load of poop. Go to Costco in Gatineau and take a look at all the people with a cart of two-fours that can't speak French. Or go to Ikea in Ottawa and try to not hear someone not speak joual.

I'd say there are sub-groups within the region.

There is a large group of people who go between the two provinces as if it was a single city. I am part of that group and I assume you are as well.

There is also a fairly large group that doesn't cross over the other side unless they absolutely have to. It's not necessarily hostile or malicious. Just a habit or an instinct to stay on their own side. Since I still have lots of family and friends in Ottawa, I sometimes rub shoulders with long-time Ottawans who have absolutely no idea where any of the major points of geographic reference in Gatineau are. Do you know where Highway 50 is? Nope.

And francophones at IKEA in Ottawa or anglophones at Costco in Gatineau may actually fall into the latter group since frequenting these businesses across the river is an "imperative": way cheaper beer than you can find anywhere in Ottawa and IKEA stuff you can't buy in Gatineau.

EDIT: And to wit, a lot of the people you see at Costco in Gatineau with the cart full of cases of beer do give off a fish-out-of-water vibe.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd say there are sub-groups within the region.

There is a large group of people who go between the two provinces as if it was a single city. I am part of that group and I assume you are as well.

There is also a fairly large group that doesn't cross over the other side unless they absolutely have to. It's not necessarily hostile or malicious. Just a habit or an instinct to stay on their own side. Since I still have lots of family and friends in Ottawa, I sometimes rub shoulders with long-time Ottawans who have absolutely no idea where any of the major points of geographic reference in Gatineau are. Do you know where Highway 50 is? Nope.

And francophones at IKEA in Ottawa or anglophones at Costco in Gatineau may actually fall into the latter group since frequenting these businesses across the river is an "imperative": way cheaper beer than you can find anywhere in Ottawa and IKEA stuff you can't buy in Gatineau.

EDIT: And to wit, a lot of the people you see at Costco in Gatineau with the cart full of cases of beer do give off a fish-out-of-water vibe.

Not sure about Gatineau but in Ottawa, there's a phenomenon where that bilingual subgroup you mentioned that treat the region like a single city, think they are a much bigger share of the population than they actually are.

The majority of Ottawans are unilingual anglophones who go to Toronto more often than they go to Gatineau. Most of my friends in Ottawa are part of the "bilingual bubble" and they often get downright shocked when I tell them that according to the census, only 25% of non-francophones in Ottawa are bilingual.

As for IKEA - the Gatinois presence at that store is definitely noticeable. There aren't many other private sector spaces in Ottawa where you'll hear so much French spoken by people around you. It's also notable that the signage at the Ottawa IKEA is bilingual (again a rarity for a private sector business in Ottawa), although they do the Quebec thing in reverse - the French is always in smaller text on the IKEA signs.

[Djeffery]

I didn't realize how close that Costco in Gatineau was until I went to a strip club down the street the other night. Probably would have been quicker to get there than the one in the east end I took my daughter to Tuesday afternoon. (Usually its her mother or brother that show up with a car and get suckered into making a Costco run with her, lucky me this time lol). My daughter lives right near King Edward and Rideau, I dropped her off at 7pm and was in Pigale's parking lot in about 12 minutes.

I don't imagine the trip to Ikea is as simple for Gatineau residents. (Or a lot of Ottawa ones for that matter lol)

[Acajack]

There is no longer a Brewers Retail Beer Store in central-most Ottawa near the bridges for a reason, I suppose.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

As for IKEA - the Gatinois presence at that store is definitely noticeable. There aren't many other private sector spaces in Ottawa where you'll hear so much French spoken by people around you. It's also notable that the signage at the Ottawa IKEA is bilingual (again a rarity for a private sector business in Ottawa), although they do the Quebec thing in reverse - the French is always in smaller text on the IKEA signs.

This thread actually made me do a 5 minute Google image search for the language of signage inside various Eastern Canadian IKEA stores!

Based on these second-hand observations:

GTA stores: English only
Ottawa: English more prominent than French
Montreal - West Island: French more prominent than English
Montreal - Boucherville: French more prominent than English
Quebec City: French more prominent than English
Halifax: English only

Bringing this thread back to Quebec City, I'm surprised that the QC store's signs aren't French only. It's probably following a policy imported from the original Montreal store to the letter, or something like that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

This thread actually made me do a 5 minute Google image search for the language of signage inside various Eastern Canadian IKEA stores!

Based on these second-hand observations:

GTA stores: English only
Ottawa: English more prominent than French
Montreal - West Island: French more prominent than English
Montreal - Boucherville: French more prominent than English
Quebec City: French more prominent than English
Halifax: English only

Bringing this thread back to Quebec City, I'm surprised that the QC store's signs aren't French only. It's probably following a policy imported from the original Montreal store to the letter, or something like that.

There is a general trend towards more bilingual commercial signage (albeit with French bigger and English smaller) in many parts of Quebec with very small anglophone populations.

[hipster duck]

Off topic, but my favourite example of a "who does this serve?" sign is this one down the road from the border crossing in Cornwall, Ontario.

Who are these unilingual, Francophone drivers who don't have a concept of the metric system?

Also, is m/h even understood as anything other meters per hour in the Francophone world?

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd say there are sub-groups within the region.

There is a large group of people who go between the two provinces as if it was a single city. I am part of that group and I assume you are as well.

There is also a fairly large group that doesn't cross over the other side unless they absolutely have to. It's not necessarily hostile or malicious. Just a habit or an instinct to stay on their own side. Since I still have lots of family and friends in Ottawa, I sometimes rub shoulders with long-time Ottawans who have absolutely no idea where any of the major points of geographic reference in Gatineau are. Do you know where Highway 50 is? Nope.

And francophones at IKEA in Ottawa or anglophones at Costco in Gatineau may actually fall into the latter group since frequenting these businesses across the river is an "imperative": way cheaper beer than you can find anywhere in Ottawa and IKEA stuff you can't buy in Gatineau.

EDIT: And to wit, a lot of the people you see at Costco in Gatineau with the cart full of cases of beer do give off a fish-out-of-water vibe.

It will be interesting to see the impact on retailers in Gatineau should Ontario follow-up through and relax its rather restrictive liquor laws. Imagine being able to buy a 24 at an Ottawa Costco. From some of the comments on the CBC website, people are in a pure panic about the private sector selling liquor. They make sound like it will be hell on earth.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Off topic, but my favourite example of a "who does this serve?" sign is this one down the road from the border crossing in Cornwall, Ontario.

Who are these unilingual, Francophone drivers who don't have a concept of the metric system?

Also, is m/h even understood as anything other meters per hour in the Francophone world?

Yes, it doesn't make sense at all. I'd never seen it. Ontario signage translation is occasionally off the mark.

Quebec uses this sign at border crossings:

https://www.google.com/search?sca_es...uqwrJ8wx_LSgDM

It uses "mph" for miles per hour, which in addition to being intuitive to anglophones also works in French as "milles par heure".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

It will be interesting to see the impact on retailers in Gatineau should Ontario follow-up through and relax its rather restrictive liquor laws. Imagine being able to buy a 24 at an Ottawa Costco. From some of the comments on the CBC website, people are in a pure panic about the private sector selling liquor. They make sound like it will be hell on earth.

I am sure it will cut into the sales in Gatineau somewhat, though it depends on how much the prices in Ontario go down as a result of the changes. I expect they will a bit, but not sure how much.

Generally speaking, for other booze, hard liquor like beer is cheaper in Quebec, but wine is slightly cheaper in Ontario. There is a large and nice LCBO at King Edward and Rideau in Ottawa that is always full of Quebecers.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Not sure about Gatineau but in Ottawa, there's a phenomenon where that bilingual subgroup you mentioned that treat the region like a single city, think they are a much bigger share of the population than they actually are.

The majority of Ottawans are unilingual anglophones who go to Toronto more often than they go to Gatineau. Most of my friends in Ottawa are part of the "bilingual bubble" and they often get downright shocked when I tell them that according to the census, only 25% of non-francophones in Ottawa are bilingual.

As for IKEA - the Gatinois presence at that store is definitely noticeable. There aren't many other private sector spaces in Ottawa where you'll hear so much French spoken by people around you. It's also notable that the signage at the Ottawa IKEA is bilingual (again a rarity for a private sector business in Ottawa), although they do the Quebec thing in reverse - the French is always in smaller text on the IKEA signs.

Language and the border plays out differently for people in Gatineau as a) they are more likely to be bilingual than Ottawans and b) French service is less common in Ottawa than English service is in Gatineau.

You also need to factor in that Ottawa is a much larger city than Gatineau so there is more stuff in Ottawa than a Gatineau person is likely to *need* than vice versa.

There are still a lot of people who stick to the Gatineau side almost all the time. Language ability plays into it but not always. I know tons of people who are pretty bilingual but prefer to go out in restaurants, bars and other social spaces in Gatineau simply because it feels more like home to them.

I also know francophones who live in Ottawa and who do lot of their activities in Gatineau, like shopping, their kids' dance school, their favourite bar, theatre outings, membership at the Sporthèque gym, participation in sports clubs, etc.

[MolsonExport]

Brewer's Retail

well, there's an expression that I have not heard for a long, long time.

[Djeffery]

One thing found odd was the wide range of gas prices in Gatineau, in a small area. When I crossed the Portage Bridge and went left, I saw an Esso that was $1.59, which was about 16 cents higher than over in Ottawa. Fine, I expected higher and didn't really need gas anyway. Just thought it would be convenient to top up before I headed home Wednesday so I didn't have to stop on the way. I knew from the prior day's drive that there were a couple stations up on Boul Saint Raymond so I headed up that way before returning to the hotel Tuesday night. Couche-Tard was also $1.59, while the Esso across and a block away was $1.45. Using PC points saved me 10 cents, making this station cheaper than any of the non-Esso's across the bridge. Happy to fill up there.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

well, there's an expression that I have not heard for a long, long time.

For real. The name change was 38 years ago

In 1985, Brewers Retail began the process of rebranding its stores as 'The Beer Store', a term commonly used by consumers to describe the store.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

The Winnipeg CMA has 61.9% of the total population of Manitoba. Therefore:

1,469,358 x 0.619 = 909,533.

Winnipeg has nearly 910,000 if the population clock is accurate.

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

In comparison, Québec City counts for 9,76% of the provincial population, which brings us around 873 000 right now.

Could it really be that Winnipeg is picking up steam and the gap is 35-36k now over QC?

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is no longer a Brewers Retail Beer Store in central-most Ottawa near the bridges for a reason, I suppose.

I'm sure that's part of the reason but the Beer Store has been closing locations all over central Toronto for some time. A bunch are being replaced with residential developments but others just shuttered. In the former case developments were intended to have a Beer Store in the retail component but that also seems to have been shelved in most (all?) cases. Expanded presence plus better selection at the LCBO and the loosening of liquor laws allowing boutique bottle shops have definitely played a part.

Now with the Master Framework Agreement for the Beer Store parties / Province likely set to be blown apart in 2025 I doubt we'll see any new stores for a long time.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by niwell

I'm sure that's part of the reason but the Beer Store has been closing locations all over central Toronto for some time. A bunch are being replaced with residential developments but others just shuttered. In the former case developments were intended to have a Beer Store in the retail component but that also seems to have been shelved in most (all?) cases. Expanded presence plus better selection at the LCBO and the loosening of liquor laws allowing boutique bottle shops have definitely played a part.

Now with the Master Framework Agreement for the Beer Store parties / Province likely set to be blown apart in 2025 I doubt we'll see any new stores for a long time.

Good points. I also think that people in general are drinking less, and if they do drink are less likely to drink beer.

[thebasketballgeek]

Hate to be that person but how did a post about what city will reach a million first switch to a discussion about Ottawa, Calgary, and Edmonton. I’m pretty sure that’s what the stats Can thread is for lol.

Furthermore, it then became a thread about the differences between Costco’s in Ottawa and Gatineau and where to buy beer and gas. It would be nice if that was discussed in the Quebec thread rather than the endless discussion about separatism…

Anyways, just visited QC last week and damn I wish Winnipeg’s city centre was half as nice as Québec’s. I also gotta say it’s hard to believe that Winnipeg and QC have similar population densities. Québec seems way denser and more of a “city feel” outside of the core.. The only area that disappointed me were the blocks adjacent to Maguire. Although Maguire itself is quite a nice high street.

Also, although Quebec has a much more expansive freeway system then Winnipeg, I found the traffic on the freeways quit worse than I expected. It makes sense though because once I got onto the neighborhood arterials there’s much less traffic compared to Winnipeg’s stroads.