DSLR Advice

[NumberFive]

I figured there are enough good photographers that are part of this forum that this could be a good place to ask for advice.

My wife wants us to take the next step and upgrade from our P&S to a DSLR, especially prior to going on a major holiday we've booked in the spring of next year so that she can take some much better pictures. I've looked around a bit, done a little research. Seems to in a lot of cases narrow down to the Nikon D90 vs the Canon Rebel Ti, with different stores giving different opinions on which one has the edge.

Can anybody here give their advice on one vs the other? Or to take a completely different route all-together?

Appreciate any info I can get.

[Bigtime]

I'm a relative newbie to the DSLR thing, got mine a few months back.

Here is what I have:

Canon EOS Rebel XSI (also known as the EOS 450D)

Lenses:

-Canon EFS 18-55mm IS (Image Stabilizer). This is the lens the camera came with.
-Canon EF 70-300mm f4-5.6 IS USM

I've found the Canon very easy to get used to coming from P&S cameras (I had a Canon Powershot SD870 IS), and after a few months find myself trying out more and more of the functions available. I guess it is worth noting that I have had no issues with it either since I started shooting with it.

[Vascilli]

The T1i has the edge in the video department (1080p/20 or 720p/30 vs 720p/30) but neither are particularly good at it mainly because there's no autofocus. Beyond that it's a matter of ergonomics, if you've already got leftovers from an older camera (Sounds like you don't) and, often overlooked, is the cost of upgrading lenses in the future. Canon has lenses that Nikon doesn't, and vice versa. Which exclusive lenses you want is up to you, and can play into your decision.

I'd personally go for the T1i, but even over that I'd go for a used 40D or similar. Most of my photo equipment is used, and it's all fine. My 1D II cost less than a T1i, then again it's a very advanced camera with no fully automatic mode.

My overall advice is to narrow down what traits are most important to you and to essentially prepare yourself for your what you plan on doing with your equipment.

[Ferreth]

I just got the Canon Rebel T1i and I love it. I previously had a 1st Generation Digital Rebel, and previous to that, film bodies from Canon, so I speak from a Canon expertise with a general knowledge of Nikons.

Some general advice - you can't go wrong with Canon or Nikon. Buying either system gives you access to a large range of lenses, on top of which the better lenses have great resale value. You can also rent gear if you are considering a particularly expensive lens purchase. One of the main points of buying an SLR is to have access to these lenses, so you want to buy one of the systems that makes a full set of lenses. If you are already using a P&S from Canon, you will find the Canon SLR's easier to move to. I'm not sure if the same applies in the Nikon line. You will find that an SLR gives you two things over a P&S, quality, and less thought about - speed. Trying to catch a squirrel on the ground? Baby crawling? Funny tourist moment? You will have more success with an SLR because it does everything so much faster.

If this is your first SLR, I would *not* spend big dollars on a body. Buy an extra lens and in three years time then you may want to consider spending more money on a semi-pro body when you know what you want from experience with your first camera. The more expensive bodies are also bigger. You'll be traveling, so you want a smaller body. Forget about mega pixels. It doesn't matter anymore if a camera has 10MP or 15MP. What matters is ergonomics, speed, low light performance, and preview quality. You need to be able to get a good preview to decide if you need to adjust your settings. You want good low light performance so you don't need a tripod to take that twilight scene in. Ergonomics is a very personal thing, and frankly, you won't be able to get a total handle on that just playing with the camera in the store. My opinion is that most people end up with Canon or Nikon based on that first impression in the store, and never look back after that because they get used to that system. I know I'm like that.

I'm quoting prices looked up today from The Camera Store (http://www.thecamerastore.com/). Generally they have the best prices in Calgary - I cannot vouch for their service, as I buy my gear at Robinson's Camera (http://www.robinsonscamera.com/) - they match prices.

In considering the Canon line, you are looking at the Rebel line. The XS with 18-55mm IS, is $540 and makes a fine first SLR. It's downside is that it's a previous generation sensor, and is not as good for low light noise, and the display screen is not as nice as the newer cameras. The next step up is the XSi, $700 with the 18-55mm IS. It's last year's model and compared to the XS, has a bigger preview screen, and slightly improved sensor. The latest rebel is the T1i at $990. The sensor is again slightly improved, with a better preview screen (a full mega pixel, very nice preview quality). If you would like to do some video with your SLR, this is the first model that can do that. Personally, if I was on a limited budget, I would get the XS and use the $450 towards a better second lens. If you really want video and like that great preview screen, go whole hog up to the T1i.

In trying to decide which Nikon to get, read the recommended camera article (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/recommended-cameras.htm) by Ken Rockwell (http://www.kenrockwell.com/index.htm). His site convinced me I had to get a wide-angle lens this time around. I will only add that for travel, I would take a close look at the D5000 with the flip down preview screen. With live view (preview on the screen rather than the viewfinder) and the screen tilted down, I can hold the camera over top of a crowd to get shots I normally wouldn't get. I totally miss this feature from my days of shooting with a Canon G2.

In considering my purchase of the Canon T1i, I spent about 10 times the amount of time considering lenses over considering the camera body. If you are going to consider Sigma and Tamron 3rd party lenses along with the brand name lenses, you have even more to consider.

First the "kit lens" The Canon 18-55mm IS is a perfectly good lens. Nikon makes something similar, and I've heard good things about that. The days of kit lenses being garbage are gone - I consider them to be about mid-level these days. You'll want IS (Canon) or VR (Nikon) as it steadys the shakes that blur photos shot in low light. You may already have this on your P&S in fact. Since you'll be traveling, you will appreciate the kit lens light weight, and the IS will help you get more photos of non-moving subjects in low light. On top of all that, the kit lens is a bargain, for Canon at least, it adds $100 to the price of the camera - you will never buy a lens that cheap again.

If you decide you want to take another lens along, you can go one of two ways: one would be to ditch the kit lens and get something with a wider range like a 18-200 IS ($663, The Camera Store). It's a pretty common option as a one lens does it all option. You pay a price though in that the quality will not be as good, the speed not as fast and low light performance about the same as the kit lens. Keep in mind though, when I say the quality will not be as good - it will still run circles around your P&S. For travel, not switching lenses means more time concentrating on taking pictures.

If you go with multiple lenses, consider the following - what you pick will depend on what kind of photos you like to take. Also consider that once you decide to spend big $ on lenses, you are really committed to a system, since selling all that and switching will cost you.

Wide angle zoom - Canon 10-22mm If you want dramatic scenery and building shots, this is the lens to get. I own this lens and so far have used it to great effect shooting downtown - not cheap at $995. Sigma makes a similar lens for slightly cheaper at $700. You will find yourself challenged with this lens - ultra-wide angle takes some getting use to.

Are you going to be shooting animals at a zoo, or not too far away in the wild? Want a dramatic sunset shot? Isolate detail in buildings? Compress the foreground and background? You want a tele-photo lens. The sky is the limit in terms of what you can spend here. You will want something lighter for travel. In the Canon line, I suggest the 70-300mm F4-5.6 IS ($798), being used here on this forum with great results. It's still relatively light and will out-perform the 18-200mm lenses at the ranges it overlaps. I'm going to recommend you stay away from the 55-250mm F4-5.6 ($350), despite it's low price. I'd rather get an all-in-one 18-200mm at that point and not worry about switching lenses as the quality difference is not great enough to bother in my opinion.

I spent about three months doing research before I purchased my gear. I wrote up a blog post about the sites I used to research my purchase decision, read it here (http://ratsofrass.com/index.php/archive/meta-phography-equipment-review-canon-focus/#more-77).

[Vascilli]

I'd recommend the Sigma 10-20 over the Canon 10-22. The difference between 20mm and 22mm isn't worth the hundreds extra you'll pay, and Sigma has a much longer warranty to boot.

I've got a Sigma 18-200 OS that's been collecting dust lately, PM me if you're interested, (Canon mount) I don't want to turn this thread into a classified.

Check photoprice.ca for fairly decent comparisons (They leave out some shops) and look through Craigslist or Kijiji if you're going used.

[The Chemist]

Skip Canikon and go with Olympus. They pioneered two major features now in common use on dSLRs (dust removal and live view) and their bodies tend to be more full featured than Canikons of the same price. Be different and go with the E620 - and then you'll also get a folding, swivelling screen AND in-body image stabilization (so ANY lens you use will be image stabilized), two important features neither the Rebel nor the D90 offer. Plus, Olympus dSLRs are smaller and lighter than the competition (mainly as they were designed from the ground up to be digital) and so are more easily carried around.

[Ramsayfarian]

Well I think it's safe to say that Ferreth has gone above and beyond the call of duty with his well in depth reply.

So I'll just add that I'm in the Canon camp as well. I just recently bought the Canon Rebel T1i. Fantastic camera, and I'm very happy with it. All though The Chemist tweaked an interest in Olympus.

The nice thing about Canon is that because it's so popular there's tons of used gear available on the internet. I've even seen 1 or 2 T1i's already for sale.

[Ramsayfarian]

Thanks for starting this thread NumberFive.

I was wondering what the general consensus is with regards to HDR processing? I've been fooling around with it during this past week and I can see where it has some merit.

[Witty Nickname]

I am a Nikon guy to a fault... When I shot film, I shot Nikon.

When the first DSLR's came out I was NOT impressed what so ever, the insane price tag and un-proven technology.
I decided to wait and purchased other digital cameras until I was satisfied with the build quality and features that the DLSR finally had to offer the consumer.

Now that I upgraded to a Nikon DSLR back in 2007, I'm happy that I did.
Either way, Canon or Nikon are both highly regarded and have a plethora of lenses to choose from.

I shoot with a D80 with these lenses.
Nikkor 18-200mm VR
Nikkor 50mm F/1.8
Nikkor 80-200mm F/2.8 AF-S
Tokina 11-16mm F/2.8
Tamron 90mm F/2.8

As others have mentioned, save on the body and buy faster glass.
I have taken over 20,000 shots with my D80 and she's still going strong.

RE: HDR
I am not a fan. It's generally over saturated cartoonie crap. It's typically way over done and I do not consider it a photograph anymore.

I do have some contacts that produce marvelous art using HDR, however those HDR images that please my eye are generally not over done and could still pass for a photograph.

There is a time and place for HDR, however this guy has and will not ever bother. I'm not really big into post processing, generally an Auto Stitch, crop and a re-size.
The odd B&W conversion, straighten and the odd colour tweak, but that doesn't happen very often.

I'd rather be shooting than sitting on the computer post processing.

[NumberFive]

Thanks for all the great info everybody... so much to consider! However, general consensus appears to be that I won't go wrong with the Canon T1i. However, I will look into the Olympus as well!

[Ramsayfarian]

RE: HDR
I am not a fan. It's generally over saturated cartoonie crap. It's typically way over done and I do not consider it a photograph anymore.

I do have some contacts that produce marvelous art using HDR, however those HDR images that please my eye are generally not over done and could still pass for a photograph.

There is a time and place for HDR, however this guy has and will not ever bother. I'm not really big into post processing, generally an Auto Stitch, crop and a re-size.
The odd B&W conversion, straighten and the odd colour tweak, but that doesn't happen very often.

I'd rather be shooting than sitting on the computer post processing.

I hear you. I was originally blown away the first time I saw an HDR photo. I think it was by Stuck in Customs. I still like some of his stuff, but after awhile the cartoonishy look does get a bit tiring. I've attempted 1 so far and turned out ok. However the top edge of the building seems a bit wonky. Converting the image from .psd to jpg seemed to have skewed it

I've been keeping my post processing to a minimum as well, as I'm a bit of a purist. However, the more I dabble in it the more fun I have. It appeals to my inner geek and it's nice to use my macs for something besides surfing. :)

Here's my first and only attempt at HDR so far:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2436/3829958567_16d226b52f_b.jpg

[Bigtime]

I'm very much like Regulator and Ramsayfarian for post processing, just some cropping, colour tweaking (with auto correct if it works right), perhaps try to level it out a bit and I'm done.

[BFHeadstone]

I never find autocorrect giving me the image that I want.

I tend to use Lightroom to process and typically just adjust lighting levels and colors. Sometimes I will go deeper and adjust individual colors

[Witty Nickname]

Here's my first and only attempt at HDR so far:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2436/3829958567_16d226b52f_b.jpg

To me, this looks a bit over exposed. I'd try bumping the darks / blacks a bit.
A little more contrast would help a bit. IMO.

[Bigtime]

I never find autocorrect giving me the image that I want.

That was my experience as well, however I have found it to be giving me some good results as of late. But if it is acting wonky (like trying to make my clouds purple) then I get in there and adjust manually.

I just hate wasting a bunch of time tweaking them when I could be uploading the shots and sharing them with everyone!

[Witty Nickname]

The curves feature in PS is an amazing tool, try this instead of Auto anything.

[Ramsayfarian]

To me, this looks a bit over exposed. I'd try bumping the darks / blacks a bit.
A little more contrast would help a bit. IMO.

I think you're right. As luck has it, I just bought the latest Practical Photography magazine and it has a tutorial on using curves to adjust contrast.

[Vascilli]

Are you tone-mapping as well as merging into HDR? The changes of only merging the images will be minimal.

I also read that using curves is slightly destructive to the image itself, most notably in smooth gradients. I don't know if this is true or not but I find myself using levels first and very gentle curves later.

[Ramsayfarian]

Are you tone-mapping as well as merging into HDR? The changes of only merging the images will be minimal.

I also read that using curves is slightly destructive to the image itself, most notably in smooth gradients. I don't know if this is true or not but I find myself using levels first and very gentle curves later.

No, I'm just merging into HDR. I'll see what I can find on tone-mapping and give it a try.

I haven't heard that about curves, but I've only known about it for about 20 hours now. The article in Practical Photography claims that Curves is "the ultimate professional tool". :tup:

Anyhow, I recommond Practical Photography those of us who are newbies to DSLR, it's a British mag, so it cost a bit more, but well worth it. This month's issue covers HDR, Summar landscapes, shutter speed tips, curves and compares the new Rebel to Nikon's D5000.

[Vascilli]

Curves are awful fun. They're the fast track to smoothly increase contrast. Levels on the other hand will give you some control on the overall "brightness" of the picture, which is why I use both. (I sometimes use levels to do colour correction)

[Full Mountain]

Just a note on the Nikon side of things....the 18-55 lenses is pretty good but for the price I would get the 50mm 1.8D (~$150) (clearer, sharper, faster the biggest draw back is that it won't work on a body lower than the D90 level) and spend the rest of the money on something at the longer end of things

For me now the biggest thing that I've started to look at is aperture specifically the low numbers (largest opening) this really helps in low light

My Kit
D80
50mm 1.8D
18-55mm Non-VR
55-200mm VR

While the 18-55 is a decent lens the 55-200 is a very entry level lens that ends to hunt for focus, the fact is all lenses do this this one just seems to do it worse

On the optional equipment side of things be sure to pick up a spare battery and skip on the off-brand ones get the Nikon/Canon ones, this is specifically important if you get a lens that uses in the internal AF motor or a VR/IS lens

The best thing I've heard is that its not the equipment it's what's behind the equipment that makes the pictures

[Ferreth]

I find with better gear I'm shooting more and processing less. I never realized how far things have come since the original Digital Rebel came out, it was kind of a good thing it got stolen as it got me off my ass and looking around to see what was new in the DSLR realm. I might process more in the winter when I don't feel like heading out with the camera.

I agree with the idea of getting a 50mm lens in the Canon or Nikon line. It's a tried and true design and the basic F1.8 gets you super background blur for portraits, flowers, etc. and allows you to get shots indoors under low light without cranking the ISO through the roof. It's dirt cheap, and small.

I'm surprised that Full Mountain is recommending getting a 2nd battery - I've shot 300 shots at a time so far and not even tweaked the battery meter on the T1i, and I'm using IS all the time. Do Nikons not get 500 shots on a battery? However, if your travel is going to have you off power for day(s) at a time, batteries are a must and yes, get brand name for your camera - I got burned on an off-brand with my last camera.

Get a circular polarizer if you're going to shoot sky or into water - makes blue skies bluer and removes water / glass glare. UV filters for your lenses are a good idea too, especially more expensive glass - a scratched UV filter is cheap to replace and easier to clean than the lens' glass. Think about your camera case too - get something you can quickly pull your camera out of and swap a lens from - ie NOT a backpack - you're carrying too much camera gear if you need a backpack.

[Ramsayfarian]

As it appears that few here are fans of heavy post processing I was wondering how many folks here save as RAW/NEF?

If so, my next question is JPEG or TIFF?

[mersar]

I shoot using the dual mode my D40 offers, most shots I just end up using the jpeg but there are occasions if I really like the framing of the shot but the colors are off that I'll pull the raw into Photoshop and adjust it.

[Ramsayfarian]

To me, this looks a bit over exposed. I'd try bumping the darks / blacks a bit.
A little more contrast would help a bit. IMO.

I just learned something. I did my processing for that photo on my Macbook Pro as it's in a cooler location than my iMac. Just looked at that photo on my iMac and it's noticeable lighter.

So how does one get a base line with regards to the brightness of level of monitors. Personally, I like my monitors sitting around 55% brightness.

[BFHeadstone]

You can hunt around online for some free monitor adjustment programs/test patterns that help get things where you can get your two machines closer to the same.

[Ramsayfarian]

I just started a new thread called "My Best Shot". It's exactly what it's called. Post what you think is your best shot. It can be about anything you want. More details in the thread which can be found here:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=4411415#post4411415

It's open to all.

[Smevo]

I'm also new to dslr's but I bought the T1i and I couldn't be happier with it. I don't have much time to do post-processing, and I'm still shooting in jpeg, but I'll be playing around with stuff more as I get more experience with it. I usually use up my free time uploading photos to post here while they're still relevant, so that's why I don't do any post-processing. There is autofocus on the T1i for video, though it's the asterisk button on the back instead of the normal shutter button for picture mode.

The major thing that sold me on Canon, though, was that I already had a film Rebel and the lenses were compatible, saving me a fair chunk of money in getting the wide-angle to telephoto range I wanted (for now).

[Ramsayfarian]

You can hunt around online for some free monitor adjustment programs/test patterns that help get things where you can get your two machines closer to the same.

Thanks for the tip.

[Big Sky]

Not really related to DSLR advice, but what programs do you guys use for HDR?

[Full Mountain]

I find with better gear I'm shooting more and processing less. I never realized how far things have come since the original Digital Rebel came out, it was kind of a good thing it got stolen as it got me off my ass and looking around to see what was new in the DSLR realm. I might process more in the winter when I don't feel like heading out with the camera.

I agree with the idea of getting a 50mm lens in the Canon or Nikon line. It's a tried and true design and the basic F1.8 gets you super background blur for portraits, flowers, etc. and allows you to get shots indoors under low light without cranking the ISO through the roof. It's dirt cheap, and small.

I'm surprised that Full Mountain is recommending getting a 2nd battery - I've shot 300 shots at a time so far and not even tweaked the battery meter on the T1i, and I'm using IS all the time. Do Nikons not get 500 shots on a battery? However, if your travel is going to have you off power for day(s) at a time, batteries are a must and yes, get brand name for your camera - I got burned on an off-brand with my last camera.

Get a circular polarizer if you're going to shoot sky or into water - makes blue skies bluer and removes water / glass glare. UV filters for your lenses are a good idea too, especially more expensive glass - a scratched UV filter is cheap to replace and easier to clean than the lens' glass. Think about your camera case too - get something you can quickly pull your camera out of and swap a lens from - ie NOT a backpack - you're carrying too much camera gear if you need a backpack.

With Either VR or using the body AF motor (on lenses without one) I tend to run around 300-400 with out using the pop up flash add that in I'm down around 200....that all said....I can fill 2x2gb cards full of jpgs in a couple of hours (1000-1200 pics) so I tend to be a bit hard on batteries as well I think there might be an issue with my meter not timing out. :shrug:

[Full Mountain]

As it appears that few here are fans of heavy post processing I was wondering how many folks here save as RAW/NEF?

If so, my next question is JPEG or TIFF?

I shoot Raw when I'm doing work where editablity is important (commercial work or when I out shooting for arts sake) when I know I'm going to be shooting alot of pics (Mountain Biking) I tend to shoot jpg's so that card space doesn't limit my shooting

[Ferreth]

With Either VR or using the body AF motor (on lenses without one) I tend to run around 300-400 with out using the pop up flash add that in I'm down around 200....that all said....I can fill 2x2gb cards full of jpgs in a couple of hours (1000-1200 pics) so I tend to be a bit hard on batteries as well I think there might be an issue with my meter not timing out. :shrug:

Interesting, for comparison, my first gen Rebel got around that range - and it seems the batteries have gotten much better in later Canons. I can't see Nikon and Canon being so different from each other. I can't see it being metering - if you're shooting that fast you're killing a battery in 1/2 hour? I found that spending lots of time reviewing stuff on the screen killed batteries faster, and of course flash, but that was about it.

[Ramsayfarian]

Not really related to DSLR advice, but what programs do you guys use for HDR?

I've just been using PS on the one's I've tried. I find the results with PS is a little more conservative than with Photomatix. Pretty good chance, that my dad is now spinning in his grave because I just liked something because it's conservative. :) I've also been using PS for my fake tiltshifts.

[Ramsayfarian]

Interesting, for comparison, my first gen Rebel got around that range - and it seems the batteries have gotten much better in later Canons. I can't see Nikon and Canon being so different from each other. I can't see it being metering - if you're shooting that fast you're killing a battery in 1/2 hour? I found that spending lots of time reviewing stuff on the screen killed batteries faster, and of course flash, but that was about it.

Another variable is the age of your battery. The older the battery the quicker it dies.

[Ramsayfarian]

I just found this site via flickr:
https://www.gadgetinfinity.com

I ordered a bubble level, a car charger, new camera battery and a cable remote to replace the one my hound chewed up. Total cost including delivery is $57.84 US. If and when my order arrives I'll post a follow up.

[Full Mountain]

^^^^
Picked up their Radio Flash triggers the Cactus V4's, they came, they work, and were a lot less than some of the other radio triggers out there...I'm quite happy with them

[Vascilli]

I just found this site via flickr:
https://www.gadgetinfinity.com

I ordered a bubble level, a car charger, new camera battery and a cable remote to replace the one my hound chewed up. Total cost including delivery is $57.84 US. If and when my order arrives I'll post a follow up.

Check out www.dealextreme.com as well. Their photo selection is probably more sparse, but they have fantastic deals on some things and shipping is always included.

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

i never knew this thread existed until today. i've been looking for a camera for my girlfiend. she loves taking photos wherever we go and she travels alot, she's actually in nepal as i type this. i went out today to buy her camera. i ended up bringing home a nikon d5000 with a nikkor 18-105 lens. not being a camera guy mydelf, how did i do?

[BFHeadstone]

Very good starter. It has many of the features (and the sensor) of the d90 but the one thing is you will need lenses with the built in motors.

It is a step up from the d60 that I have.

[Vascilli]

The articulating display is nice.

[Ferreth]

i never knew this thread existed until today. i've been looking for a camera for my girlfiend. she loves taking photos wherever we go and she travels alot, she's actually in nepal as i type this. i went out today to buy her camera. i ended up bringing home a nikon d5000 with a nikkor 18-105 lens. not being a camera guy mydelf, how did i do?

Are you sure she wants an SLR? For many people a little pocket digital is the perfect travel companion - those little cameras take amazing pictures these days. That said, for an SLR I think the camera / lens you picked is a good choice.

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

Are you sure she wants an SLR? For many people a little pocket digital is the perfect travel companion - those little cameras take amazing pictures these days. That said, for an SLR I think the camera / lens you picked is a good choice.

her and i have talked in the past about buying a dslr, and it was unanimous. we want to take photography to the next level from what we know of it now. we actually have empty frames on the walls waiting for our own shots to go up. next summer we plan on travelling asia and south america for 6+-12 months, so getting the camera now will also help us learn how to use it properly.

[Ramsayfarian]

Nothing wrong with that gear. Only neg I can come up with; is that because Canon has the D70 coming out soon, the bleeding edge appear to be liquidating their Rebel's and D50s. I've been seeing some crazy deals on Kijiji lately.

[Vascilli]

The 50D is awfully cheap now because Canon released it for virtually no reason. Beyond more megapixels, a few extra features like micro-adjustment, and some other stuff nobody would bother to spend their money on, it's the same as the 40D. The sudden release of the 7D effectively destroyed the 50D in every way imaginable, which is why they're such a good deal.

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

hello again guys,

i called my girlfriend last night, she's travelling thru nepal right now, and she started talking about how much she wanted a dslr. looks like my choice of getting her one was the right one. i tried to stray away from talk about a camera, cause i can't keep secrets. anyway, on to the point of my post. she mentioned that she would really love a good zoom lens when she gets her dslr, and beeing a noob at this stuff, what constitutes a good zoom?

[mersar]

hello again guys,

i called my girlfriend last night, she's travelling thru nepal right now, and she started talking about how much she wanted a dslr. looks like my choice of getting her one was the right one. i tried to stray away from talk about a camera, cause i can't keep secrets. anyway, on to the point of my post. she mentioned that she would really love a good zoom lens when she gets her dslr, and beeing a noob at this stuff, what constitutes a good zoom?

The 18-105 is a good start. I have the Nikkor 70-300 for my D40 which covers the ranges I want, has decent image stabilization and not too bad a price (they've come down since I bought mine, under $600 now)

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

The 18-105 is a good start. I have the Nikkor 70-300 for my D40 which covers the ranges I want, has decent image stabilization and not too bad a price (they've come down since I bought mine, under $600 now)

where the numbers start getting thrown around, is where i really don't understand the lens.

[mersar]

Pretty much the bigger the number, the bigger the zoom. Generally anything under 30 is 'wide angle' and over 70 is 'telephoto',

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

Pretty much the bigger the number, the bigger the zoom. Generally anything under 30 is 'wide angle' and over 70 is 'telephoto',

so the 18-105 i have kind of does both wide angle and telephoto?

sorry for all the silly beginner questions, but i really appreciate the help. hopefully someday i can take some photos that can compare to ones posted on this site.

[Stang]

Yeah, 18-105 is a pretty good, everyday focal length. The compromise is the aperture size. Generally these multi-purpose lenses are a little "slower" which means that they don't let as much light in. But for outdoor stuff, it won't make much of a difference to her. A good starting point, for sure.

Don't apologize for beginner questions - ask away!

[Danma]

Here's a simple-ish explanation of the range values:

If you're shooting with a full-frame DSLR, then 35mm is considered 1x zoom. 70mm is 2x zoom and 105mm is 3x zoom (since the sensor is the same size as a 35mm film strip) Only top of the line DSLRs (i.e. >$2000) tend to have full-frame sensors.

If you're using a Rebel or a 30/40/50D Canon or something that isn't top of the line, then because it has a smaller sensor, you have to multiply the zoom by what's called a 1.6x crop factor (which means the image will be 1.6x zoomed in compared to a full frame camera).

So let's say I have a Canon Rebel, and I have a 28-105mm lens for it.

The max "wide angle"/zoomed out would be 28/35 * 1.6 crop factor = 1.3x zoom.
The max "telephoto"/zoomed in would be 105/35 * 1.6 crop factor = 4.8x zoom.

This same lens on a 5D (a full frame DSLR) is from 0.8x to 3x zoom, since it doesn't have that 1.6x multiplier.

Here's another example: Canon released a 17-200mm lens for the low-end DSLRs. This range translates to:
zoomed out: 17/35*1.6 = 0.77x zoom
zoomed in: 200/35*1.6 = 9.1x zoom

Hopefully that explains the range values for lenses.

[Ferreth]

What constitutes a "good" zoom lens is all dependent on the user. I'm going to simplify here for those who know more, but - For photo-equipment nerds, it's all about quality (anything really expensive) . For Wildlife, it's all about maximum focal length (eg 600mm fixed ultra-long lens) For most consumers, it's all about wide range (eg Nikon 55-200VR)

I'm going to guess your girlfriend falls into the last category. Get the 18-200mm VR lens. It's a touch pricey, but that helps foster the "good" moniker. The range is as wide as you are going to get in a Nikon lens. Quality is fine, unless you want to use it to photograph buildings in which case you will notice some distortion (straight lines will be bowed in some instances).

The 55-200VR I mention above is a cheaper alternative, but you will find 55mm to be not wide enough to get a group of people in the shot without backing up half a mile. In that case, I'd get a second lens to cover the wide stuff - like the kit lens 18-55mm.

[Danma]

If you want to take great architectural photos, get a tilt-shift lens as shifting lenses were designed specifically to correct perspective.

[Ramsayfarian]

I'm thinking of getting a Gorillapod. I was wondering if anyone here uses them and if they're happy with it?

Thanks.

[Full Mountain]

They aren't as good as they claim, I got the SLR one to use with my flash off-camera and it doesn't seem to hold it up well (especially when it's hanging off a tree ie horizontal) and this is with a Nikon SB-600 flash I'm honestly not sure it would hold a SLR very well in any other position that straight up and down

The Travel Angel (http://www.benro.com/products_TripodKits.html) from Benro looks like a good bet for a travel tripod though

[Ramsayfarian]

They aren't as good as they claim, I got the SLR one to use with my flash off-camera and it doesn't seem to hold it up well (especially when it's hanging off a tree ie horizontal) and this is with a Nikon SB-600 flash I'm honestly not sure it would hold a SLR very well in any other position that straight up and down

The Travel Angel (http://www.benro.com/products_TripodKits.html) from Benro looks like a good bet for a travel tripod though

Sorry for the tardy reply, I forgot to subscribe to this thread.

By hold up well, do you mean that it bends when it shouldn't or that it doesn't hold on to what it's wrapped around?

Thanks for the benro link, I don't need one right now, but I might some day.

[Full Mountain]

Sorry for the tardy reply, I forgot to subscribe to this thread.

By hold up well, do you mean that it bends when it shouldn't or that it doesn't hold on to what it's wrapped around?

Thanks for the benro link, I don't need one right now, but I might some day.

That's exactly what happens the leg joints aren't stiff enough and so they don't stay tight very well, as well the single portion between the tripod head and the legs tends to bend if it is off at an angle....now this occurred when I had it wrapped around a tree with fairly loose bark, I haven't played around with it on railings or anything with a hard surface

Using it similar to a normal tripod (ie vertical) this works ok but not excellent

I saw that black's has a knock off version, not sure on the price or quality though

One disclaimer I tend to find tripods in general clumsy and annoying so I tend to shoot hand held except in the lowest light conditions (read night) also I use it as a light stand not as a camera tripod so the exact results with a camera on it I can't speak to

[TETT2]

So my DSLR confuses me, I have a canon digital rebel... and I asked if I could get a fisheye and the guy said no because its not a full 35mm camera? I dont get it...

[Ramsayfarian]

So my DSLR confuses me, I have a canon digital rebel... and I asked if I could get a fisheye and the guy said no because its not a full 35mm camera? I dont get it...

Who told you that?

You can still use a fisheye lens on a Rebel, you will lose a bit of the effect because of the crop factor but it will still work.

You might want to rent on for the weekend and see if it does what you like.

[Full Mountain]

So my DSLR confuses me, I have a canon digital rebel... and I asked if I could get a fisheye and the guy said no because its not a full 35mm camera? I dont get it...

First off what he was saying is that you camera has a smaller than 35mm sensor these are referred to by a couple of different names DX, APS-C, and or crop sensors. You camera likely has a crop factor of around 1.6x the best way to understand this is to look at the focal length on your lens

A 50mm lens on a full(35mm) sensor camera is exactly that, and on you camera it would be around 80mm

Second there are Fisheyes that are designed around the crop sensors like this one (http://vistek.ca/store/CameraLenses/238099/tokina-af-1017mm-f3545-dx-canon-fisheye-lens.aspx) not sure what else there would be for canons I know that Nikon makes a fisheye specifically for their crop sensor

Vistek has about 7 fisheyes for Canon's these EF-S Mount Fisheyes (http://vistek.ca/results/CameraLenses/camlenses/Find-Your-Lens.aspx?af=o5|o8&av=Canon%20EF-S%20lens%20mount|Fisheye&Attrib=LENSES)are designed specifically for crop sensors and these EF Mount Fisheyes (http://vistek.ca/results/CameraLenses/camlenses/Find-Your-Lens.aspx?af=o5|o8&av=Canon%20EF%20mount|Fisheye&Attrib=LENSES) may or may not be designed specifically for them

The only other reason than that mentioned by Ramsayfarian is that there may be incompatibility with your body, you'll need to do some research into which lenses are compatible with you camera and which are not, for the most part those that are listed under the EF-S Mount link should work, but research it before you lay down the cash

[TETT2]

Who told you that?

You can still use a fisheye lens on a Rebel, you will lose a bit of the effect because of the crop factor but it will still work.

You might want to rent on for the weekend and see if it does what you like.

Thanks, i'll check it out, The Camera Store has rentals:)
It was the guy in the camera store that told me that...

[Vascilli]

The Digital Photo Expo is today and tomorrow from 10-5 at the Roundup Center. I'll be there. (Need to check out the 200 f/2L)

[Ramsayfarian]

Thanks, i'll check it out, The Camera Store has rentals:)
It was the guy in the camera store that told me that...

It's probably the same idiot who wouldn't sell me a 7D.

[Ramsayfarian]

The Digital Photo Expo is today and tomorrow from 10-5 at the Roundup Center. I'll be there. (Need to check out the 200 f/2L)

I went and found it to be a complete waste of time and money. Some of the guest speakers sounded like they might be interesting, but I didn't want to wait around.

It wasn't a complete waste though, because I checked out the Woman's show that was also going on. Free booze samples and tons of ladies.

[Vascilli]

Last years was in the Telus Convention Center, which was miserably dark and empty. It can only get better. (Well, unless Canon doesn't show up.)

[bikegypsy]

So my DSLR confuses me, I have a canon digital rebel... and I asked if I could get a fisheye and the guy said no because its not a full 35mm camera? I dont get it...

Sensors in Dslr cameras are very expensive. So they make them as as small as possible in order to find a compromise between image resolution and price of the camera. At the present moment, only top of the line dslr cameras have full frame 35mm sensors, basically the same dimension as the frame in film cameras.

35mm lenses are build so that the cone of light (if we can call it like that) which the lense produces inside the camera just fits almost perfectly to cover the area of the 35mm frame.
Which means that if you use a a regular 'film camera' lens, you loose some of that cone... it's as if you go in closer, you loose information on the sides. Basically, a 100mm lense becomes about a 150 mm lense. A 50, 75, and 20, a 30mm lense.

Which also means that you cannot use a dlsr specific lense with a film camera... you would have vignetting around your image.

The fish eye that you want, looses alot of that fish eye dimension if you use it on your dlsr. So its not a fish eye anymore. It just becomes a very expensive wide angle with the real fish eye effect.

Has technology advances, the price of these sensors should go down.
We should see full dlsr cameras in the prosumer category in a few years. But now, unless you have the 4-5000$ for the real deal, you have to wait.

I hope this helps.

[devonb]

Nikon's D700 is $2700 and has the full sensor; it's a scaled down version of the D3. If you have Nikkor lenses, which I do, then you don't need to buy new lenses like you would with a DX camera (or whatever the other names for smaller sensors cameras). So you may want a good camera and decide to spend the money on a D300, but when you add the cost of new lenses it can really add up. I love Nikon, so I don't know about Canon's lens compatibility.

In that way, purchasing a prosumer camera isn't as far off as you may think.

[Vascilli]

I guess my expectations for expos are really low, because I thought the Digital Photo Expo was really nice. A few highlights:

-Got a Thinktank Pixel Pocket Rocket card wallet for $10. (Special The Camera Store version, it's the Pee Wee size that holds 6 CF cards or 4 CF cards and 3 SD cards)
-Bought a few Hama film holders for $3 each. Should come in handy when I do medium format
-Played around with the Sigma 200-500mm f/2.8. You know the lens is big when it's got a separate motor for zooming.
-Also toyed around with a Sigma 300-800mm f/5.6 and a Nikon D3. (How on earth do you control it?)
-Saw Canon's latest lenses, the TS-E 17mm and 24mm II, and the 100L Macro.
-Got to test Canon's latest and greatest, the Canon 1D IV. Delicious.

[Ramsayfarian]

I guess my expectations for expos are really low, because I thought the Digital Photo Expo was really nice. A few highlights:

-Got a Thinktank Pixel Pocket Rocket card wallet for $10. (Special The Camera Store version, it's the Pee Wee size that holds 6 CF cards or 4 CF cards and 3 SD cards)
-Bought a few Hama film holders for $3 each. Should come in handy when I do medium format
-Played around with the Sigma 200-500mm f/2.8. You know the lens is big when it's got a separate motor for zooming.
-Also toyed around with a Sigma 300-800mm f/5.6 and a Nikon D3. (How on earth do you control it?)
-Saw Canon's latest lenses, the TS-E 17mm and 24mm II, and the 100L Macro.
-Got to test Canon's latest and greatest, the Canon 1D IV. Delicious.

Not sure what else you did, but you could have done pretty much everything on your list, at the store, sans the $20 cover charge.

[Vascilli]

I can't help but doubt there's a 200-500 or 1D IV sitting around at your typical camera store. It's also nice being able to ask questions to people that are more specialized. There's still a good bit of empty space that I felt could've been used by more stands. (Nobody had drop-in filters or holders, for example.)

[Ramsayfarian]

I can't help but doubt there's a 200-500 or 1D IV sitting around at your typical camera store. It's also nice being able to ask questions to people that are more specialized. There's still a good bit of empty space that I felt could've been used by more stands. (Nobody had drop-in filters or holders, for example.)

Maybe not your typical camera store, but I'm sure you could do all that and more at the store who put the event on.

Speaking of filters, I was looking for a gradient filter and one of the vendors I spoke to who carried filters, told me that he carries gradients, but couldn't bring them because The Camera Store didn't carry the brand that he repped. As I mentioned earlier, if one stayed and listened to a workshop or two, it would be worth the price of admission.

That's my opinion though, and if you felt that you got your monies worth, then that's great.

[Vascilli]

I minimized collateral damage by buying in advance. (Still $15) The only lecture I plan on watching is the one on DSLR video, my friends and I chatted with him on Friday while we were messing about with a 5D II cradled in a Zacuto shoulder mount. Of course it seems virtually impossible to hear in that place, but we'll see.

TCS has Cokin, Lee, and Singh-Ray filters, but I only recall seeing the smallest display for some Singh-Ray screw-ons. The whole expo seems like a glamoured up visit to their store more than anything. If it wasn't, then I might see Elinchrom there and other brands I really need to test stuff from.

[Ramsayfarian]

I minimized collateral damage by buying in advance. (Still $15) The only lecture I plan on watching is the one on DSLR video, my friends and I chatted with him on Friday while we were messing about with a 5D II cradled in a Zacuto shoulder mount. Of course it seems virtually impossible to hear in that place, but we'll see.

TCS has Cokin, Lee, and Singh-Ray filters, but I only recall seeing the smallest display for some Singh-Ray screw-ons. The whole expo seems like a glamoured up visit to their store more than anything. If it wasn't, then I might see Elinchrom there and other brands I really need to test stuff from.

Exactly my complaint, all the gear there you can see at The Camera Store for free. Oh well, I know now better for next year.

[Vascilli]

Well seeing as I paid already, I'm going again today. And this time with *gasp* friends!

[Ramsayfarian]

Well seeing as I paid already, I'm going again today. And this time with *gasp* friends!

You and your friends should hit the Woman's show and ask around for Mrs. Robinson.

[Vascilli]

You and your friends should hit the Woman's show and ask around for Mrs. Robinson.

Teenage boy with two evil black cameras slung around his neck, wanders suspiciously into a women-oriented expo. That would go over well. :sly:

Today's visit was much more fun, not only was I with friends, I manhandled a bunch more stuff. A complete list, including from yesterday:

Sigma 200-500mm f/2.8
Sigma 300-800mm f/5.6
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS
Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6L IS
Leica M9 digtal rangefinder
Leica S2 digital medium format
Panasonic GF1
Lensbaby Composer
Canon 7D
Canon 5D II
Canon 1D IV
Canon 80mm f/1.2L II
Canon 24mm f/1.4L II
Canon 16-35mm f/2.8L
Canon 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS
Canon TS-E 17mm f/4L
Canon TS-E 24mm f/3.5L

And the two big ones that made everyone jealous for some reason:
Canon 200mm f/2L IS
Canon 800mm f/5.6L IS

A stupid mini-review of the expo plus photos is coming up.

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

hey guys, i'm looking to tap into your knowledge again. what software is recommended for photo enhancements?i've heard of photoshop, lightroom etc...but i have no idea which is the best bang for buck and good user interface.

[Ramsayfarian]

hey guys, i'm looking to tap into your knowledge again. what software is recommended for photo enhancements?i've heard of photoshop, lightroom etc...but i have no idea which is the best bang for buck and good user interface.

Depends what you want to do. You might want to start off by using some of the free software that's available.

There's an online version of a basic photoshop that's free. [URL]http://photoshop.com[URL]
Being that it's online, it can be a bit slow.

Google has a software package called Picasa that's also free:
[URL]http://picasa.google.com/[URL]
This is an actual app that you can download.

I use Photoshop, but only like 2% of it. Most of the stuff I do in Photoshop can be done in the above mentioned options.

A cheap, meaning free, alternative to Photoshop is Gimp which is an open source package. It's pretty cool, but a little complicated.

There's also Lightroom from Adobe, and Aperture, which is the Apple equivalent. I'd pick Lightroom over Aperture, only because I'm already a Photoshop user.

[Ayreonaut]

I'm going to get Lightroom, but just haven't found it yet (only looked at a few places so far).

[Witty Nickname]

Lightroom is pretty slick.

$393 at The Camera Store
http://www.thecamerastore.com/products/software-hardware/photo-editing-management/adobe-photoshop-lightroom-version-20

$335 at Vistek
http://www.vistek.ca/store/Software/238861/adobe-photoshop-lightroom-20-for-mac-win.aspx

[Ramsayfarian]

Lightroom is pretty slick.

$393 at The Camera Store
http://www.thecamerastore.com/products/software-hardware/photo-editing-management/adobe-photoshop-lightroom-version-20

$335 at Vistek
http://www.vistek.ca/store/Software/238861/adobe-photoshop-lightroom-20-for-mac-win.aspx

I agree, it is slick.
That's quite the price difference between the two places. With the dollar being so strong, I'd get it from Amazon.com or some other online retailer that's located in the States.

I forgot to mention in my previous message, that Adobe allows you to demo Lightroom for 30 days.

Also, Adobe has just released a beta version of 3.0, so I'd hold off purchasing Lightroom, until 3.0 is actually released.

[Vascilli]

hey guys, i'm looking to tap into your knowledge again. what software is recommended for photo enhancements?i've heard of photoshop, lightroom etc...but i have no idea which is the best bang for buck and good user interface.

If you take high ISO shots (1600+) you must get Noise Ninja. On my 1D II I can completely save underexposed shots at ISO 3200.

[Ramsayfarian]

If you take high ISO shots (1600+) you must get Noise Ninja. On my 1D II I can completely save underexposed shots at ISO 3200.

Nik Dfine 2.0 kicks Ninja's ass.

[Stang]

I also use Lightroom and it has replaced two or three other steps/programs in my workflow.

IIRC, I ordered mine directly from Adobe for about $300. This was at least a year ago, but it may be worth a try.

And, to echo what others have suggested:

- Download the 30 day trial first (it is a full trial too, so it isn't crippled in any way).
- Wait and see how 3.0 is coming along, because you may want to hold off.

Photoshop is often overkill, even for professional photographers. If you are looking for something to organize, tweak levels/exposure/colour on images, minor cloning, local adjustments, and convert from RAW, then Lightroom is the one. If you are more interested in heavy manipulation, photo-artistic things, etc. then you might want to consider Photoshop.

[Ramsayfarian]

Completely off topic, but it does have to do with photography. Check out this page. Some of the best action shots I have ever seen. I'm dying to find out what type of camera he's using as the AF seems to be lightening fast.

The URL pretty much says it all.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1234929/Cheating-death-The-moment-British-photographer-narrowly-escapes-crushed-runaway-drag-race-car.html

[devonb]

I googled his name and "nikon" and "canon" and someone said it was a Nikon, though that is not a reliable source.

[Vascilli]

My guess is a Canon 1-Series of some sort. He's got a nice lens on it too, perhaps a 24-70L or similar.

[mooky]

d3100 versus t2i . . . any quick thoughts on which is a better camera? I'm finally needing a decent non-PnS camera to capture the moments of my soon-to-be-born son's life and a few people I know have suggested both.

I'm not a fan-boy either way for Nikon or Canon, I just want a good camera that takes portraits of my kid, and I'm a VERY amateur photography type, so I want something that will help me going forward to get better.

Money of the camera body isn't the #1 concern in my comparison, but it might come into play if the lenses of each are much different in price for compatible lenses.

[Ramsayfarian]

d3100 versus t2i . . . any quick thoughts on which is a better camera? I'm finally needing a decent non-PnS camera to capture the moments of my soon-to-be-born son's life and a few people I know have suggested both.

I'm not a fan-boy either way for Nikon or Canon, I just want a good camera that takes portraits of my kid, and I'm a VERY amateur photography type, so I want something that will help me going forward to get better.

Money of the camera body isn't the #1 concern in my comparison, but it might come into play if the lenses of each are much different in price for compatible lenses.

I'm a Canon shooter, but I wouldn't call myself a Canon fanboy. However I would take the T2i over the D3100.

Here's dpreview.com's review of the T2i
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/CanonEOS550D/

And here's their review for the D3100
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond3100/

[mooky]

Is the 3100 even the proper Nikon model to be comparing to the T2I or is another model possibly a better comparable?

[Ferreth]

Is the 3100 even the proper Nikon model to be comparing to the T2I or is another model possibly a better comparable?

Mooky, I'd say the T1i is closer to the 3100. It's one year older, and not quite as good as the T2i. That being said, my advice is to go to some stores, try both out and see which brand you like best. Any other arguments are pretty much moot when you are starting out. Both will take great pictures from baby through graduation. I wouldn't buy any other lenses to start with either; you'll have your hands full learning the camera and the kit lens that comes with it to start. The only other thing I could see you buying are a tripod and a remote, to allow you to take family photos.

[SmokWawelski]

I like my Nikon D60 which I believe was replaced by the 3100. Small easy to use, great for all around shooting, my package came with two Nikon VR lenses 18-55 and 70-200. Definitely spend extra money on a good flash at least the SB-600 for indoor shots. Those flashes that pop up are shit. Just my two cents:):)

[devonb]

I bought my wife the 3100 and it's a nifty little thing. I love Nikon, but did read the video function is slightly better on the Canons. That was a secondary function for her, but even so I've been really impressed with the video. She likes having the live view.

[devonb]

Is the 3100 even the proper Nikon model to be comparing to the T2I or is another model possibly a better comparable?

No, the T2i is $300 more than the Nikon. The T1i is a closer comparison to the 3100.

[Ramsayfarian]

No, the T2i is $300 more than the Nikon. The T1i is a closer comparison to the 3100.

It might have been that much more when it came out, but the price difference now is only $122 over at The Camera Store.

I noticed that someone is selling a T1i with a lens on Kijiji today for $350. That's a smoking price.

[Ferreth]

It might have been that much more when it came out, but the price difference now is only $122 over at The Camera Store.

I noticed that someone is selling a T1i with a lens on Kijiji today for $350. That's a smoking price.

Smoking, as in hot, yes.

[mooky]

Thanks for the comments guys! Gotta do some price checking and I'll be purchasing something some time this month I hope.

Cheers!