Historical Winnipeg discussion

[j.online]

^ does anyone know what building that is south of the cathedral (the large one just behind the now St. B Museum) And when did it go (burn?) down?

[SKYSTHELIMIT]

^^

Built in 1883, Taché Academy was initially intended to be a girl's boarding school. But it also housed orphans and was home base for other works. The boarding school was closed in 1897, and the building was reopened as Taché Hospice for orphans and elderly women. Between 1908 and 1910, three additional wings were constructed and Hospice Taché became the Grey Nuns' and orphans residence. The elderly were moved into the old Grey Nun Convent which was renamed Hospice Youville (now the St. Boniface Museum). Because Hospice Youville was filled to capacity in 1923, the elderly were returned to Taché Hospice and the Sisters moved back into the Convent. The Orphanage was closed in 1935. The old building was demolished and Taché Nursing Centre was built on the site in 1973.

Source Manitoba Archives

So essentially it was an extension of the tremendous construction projects of the Grey Nuns in St. Boniface, it is unfortunate that it was volountarily torn down for the existing building. it looked to be quite a large complex when you include the Tache buildings as well.

[1ajs]

the cathedral burnt down in 1968 witch was a bad year for church fires

[j.online]

^ thanks! it's a good lookin building from that photo. it woulda been a nice addition to today's collection of old St. B.

[flatlander]

Great pic! Hard to believe how tiny St. B was 60 years ago.

[bomberguy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHDQ8mnBFlI
Nice vid.

[Andy6]

Here's a snippet from the Free Press of Saturday, Dec. 17, 1955 (p. 3) with some interesting development news:

*Demolition is beginning Monday at the "ancient" Grace Church (see the previous page of this thread). Owner of the property doesn't know what will happen to it, exactly (53 years later it's still a barren parking lot).

*Another vote to be held on the "Disraeli Street Bridge" project. Voters had just failed to approve the project in the previous vote.

*Mayor Sharpe is sceptical about a proposed "huge project" to redevelop the "blighted area" between Notre Dame and the tracks, replacing it with "first-class housing" that would allow "business citizens to live within walking distance of the downtown area".

*A hard-to-develop property at Main and Bannatyne has been sold yet again (I guess it's part of what became the CN property).

*Loblaws reported to be building a store on the old car barns site on Osborne between Morley and Kylemore. I guess this is the Loblaws that became the Fort Rouge Leisure Centre/Sam Southern Arena.

Anyway, it all sounds pretty familiar!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3060/3109241850_1d0695308b_b.jpg

[flatlander]

Is David Slater mentioned in both the Grace Church and Loblaw articles? It's hard to make out. If so, he sounds like the Joe Diner of the day.

[1ajs]

things never change eh lol

[Only The Lonely..]

Great find Andy. That was pretty awesome to see.

[Andy6]

June 13, 1959: discussions of the future of Point Douglas and debates about metropolitan government, plus the latest in street signs:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3196/3111488151_596b6a2263_b.jpg

[Andy6]

September 4, 1971: Portage Avenue fixture Gensers moves to the suburbs. Probably one of the first indications of the decline of Portage, even if few recognized it as such:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3029/3111488355_08d5a0b3eb_b.jpg

[Andy6]

March 15, 1958: artist's conception of the new Downtowner Motel, bringing sleek modernity to city-centre hostelries:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3088/3112319746_6144c9db62_b.jpg

[rgalston]

Local development news, July 20, 1874

"REMEMBER the promenade concert to-night in the Pacific Hotel. Tickets only 25 cts. Big time.

"THE telegraph office has been removed to the office formerly occupied by Mr. McDonnell, barrister corner of Main and Notre Dame street, which has been fitted up specially for this purpose."

July 27, 1874

"THE side walk is being progressed down Notre Dame Street. Whoop la! we know a youthful genius who won't have to walk through the mud any more.

"THE brick buildings lately erected would be a credit to any city in the Dominion. The Brick & Pottery Company have provided beyond a doubt that good brick can be made in Manitoba. But why don't they get a Pressing Machine for making "face" brick. Then Milwaukee would be in the shade."

August 3, 1874

"WE are pleased to learn that McKenney Bros.' Warehouse, foot of Notre Dame st.. has been constituted a bond warehouse.

"WE understand the site of the new Post office has been finally settled. It will be erected on the site of the old Parliament buildings. [Main and McDermot?]

"LOVERS of the weed, peruseH. Johnstone's tobacco advertisement. He says he can sell cheaper than other establishment in the Province. [errors faithfully copied]

"APROPOS OF DRUNKENNESS.--A tipsy Good Templar named Cameron, the other night pushed his way into the David Hotel [the vacant lot on Main next to Canwest tower] at an untimely hour. Having created a disturbance in the house, and forced his way into several of the boarders' rooms, ladies' included, he was finally kicked into the street by the indignant proprietors."

August 17, 1974

"WE object to Aldermen getting their animals out of the pound without paying charges.

"THE stone work on the new office of the H.B.Co. is progressing rapidly.

"MR. Macauley is erecting a handsome residence for himself on Notre Dame Street.

"WOLSELEY HOUSE at Point Douglas [precurser the Wolseley/Mount Royal Hotel on Higgins and Austin?] is now in full blast. The Hotel is one of the best in the city.

"MR. MCDERMOTT is erected a number of tenement houses, in the neighborhood of Macauley's lumber yard.

"THE POST oflice [sic] has received a coat of mud and whitewash. It required it badly. What about that new Post Office.

"BUFFALO are reported to be plentiful on the Saskatchewan. we [sic] hope so for the sake of those who have gone out to trade this fall.

"THE Mennonites all seem to be struck with the hardware business. The hardware men like such strikes. Stoves, &c., they are after.

"SEVERAL of our merchants have received goods per Dawson Route. Some of whom complain and others speak well of the Route.

"DR. SCHULTZ having rented his brick warehouse, is now erecting an office for himself on Main street, next to McMicken's Bank [Main and Water?].

"MR. POWERS the jailor deserves great credit for the manner in which he keeps the jail in order. It is highly creditable to his management.

"WHAT has Lemuel [?] Gulliver got to do with the promise of Mr. McKenzie to build the Pembina Railroad by December next? give it up. Ask the Free Press.

"THE corporation will have to turn their attention to the sewage of the city. So long as Winnipeg is with-out proper drainage will we be subject to epidemics, fevers, &c.

"THE Free Press is continually sticking its nose down the Artesian well on Main Street; it is long enough for the purpose, alway stirring up the mud without doing any good.

"IT is reported that Albert Sargeant, better known to old residents as "Butts," was married yesterday at St. Andrews. Full particulars of the disaster are not known.

"MR. BANNATYNE'S brick store which, when finished, will be almost a counterpart of Mr. Higgins', on the opposite side of the street is being pushed forward rapidly by the contractor, Er. Patterson.

"WE would advise our citizens to be more careful in keeping back yards clean, the amount of filth lying about is disgraceful, and if not removed will tend to keep the health of the city in a bad condition.

"UNDER the able management of Mr. Cronn of the Club House the new hotel lately erected on Mr. Roberts on Garry street will be first class in every respect. We understand it will be handsomely furnished."

August 24, 1874

"WE are pleased to observe a change for the better in the architectural appearance of many of the buildings now going up in the city.

"THE building now used for a Hospital [Albert and McDermot I think] is rather small at present but we understand that arrangements are being made to have it enlarged.

"WE observed a very neat residence being erected by Mr. Sutherland on the Ross estate. It will be one of the neatest cottages in the city when finished.

"WORK on the Baptist Church Point Douglas is progressing as well as possible. When completed it will be one of the finest places of worship in the city.

"FORT street is beginning to rival its neighbor, Main street, in fine buildings and business traffic. Already it has two first-class hotels and several handsome private residences.

"THE St. Boniface woollen mills are kept running night and day. This looks well for the enterprise. We believe the works cannot keep pace with the orders on hand. Bully for you, McVicar Bros.

"MR. Carpenter, our much respected Stage and Express Agent, has built himself a house at Point Douglas which for neatness, compactness and architectural beauty takes a first prize. Mr. Carpenter, can it be possible?--ahem! nuff ced.

"A runaway took place on Monday evening bringing up at Brown's Bridge [Main and William]. The buggy was pretty well smashed up, and the harness torn from the horse, Chief of Police Ingram took charge of the horse. No lives lost, the driver haveing jumped out before the horse started to run."

[Andy6]

Nice work, rgalston!

Lemuel Gulliver is a reference to Gulliver's Travels, of course. Also, it should be Davis Hotel rather than David?

[rgalston]

Nice work, rgalston!

Lemuel Gulliver is a reference to Gulliver's Travels, of course. Also, it should be Davis Hotel rather than David?

Oh, right. I never did read that book.

And yes, I meant Davis Hotel.

All of those briefs were from page three of The Daily Nor'Wester in the summer of 1874. Found at manitobia.ca (http://manitobia.ca/cocoon/launch/en/themesSelectionPage)

P.S.-- Love that rendering of the Downtowner Motel. That place is really nice as a traveler's hostel now. Or at least the LO Pub downstairs is.

[The Jabroni]

Ah, when Loblaws was the chain back then, before the name retreated back to Ontario. The existing Loblaws stores (at least the name) by then closed down and built new stores that eventually became Extra Foods and Real Canadian Superstores today. That tidbit of a Loblaw store potentially opening in West Kildonan turned out, and went into a Dominion around Northgate on McPhillips, before it was shut down many years later and focused its new and giant store a few blocks north on what was the first Superstore in Winnipeg in the late 80s.

[Andy6]

Here is a picture from an Eaton's brochure that I have. No date, but probably 1960 or 1961. There are still houses along York Avenue and, aside from the post office there is no sign of postwar construction yet.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3236/3115087856_f258870fa2_b.jpg

[flatlander]

^^^Man i miss that residential. Nice picture.

[rgalston]

Wow. It would have been so great if what was left of that neighborhood was saved, trees were re-planted, properties restored, et cetera, instead of continuing to become an automobile slum. It might have been possible to enjoy walking between Portage and Broadway.

[1ajs]

3 homes are still sanding in that area or is it 4?


btw rob u put aug 17 1974 instead of 1874 had me scraching my head for a second lol

[Andy6]

Just acquired a new (old) view book with many great shots from around 1910. Here is one of the interior of a Winnipeg streetcar from that era:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3242/3116693855_7e61b1c9b4_b.jpg

Here's another of what I take to be Carlton St. looking south across Ellice to Portage Avenue and beyond:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3206/3116652255_156e7bca60_b.jpg

[Andy6]

A few more. Looking along Portage East -- note the Great-West Life building on Lombard in its original 4-storey configuration:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3210/3119669798_4909499788_b.jpg

The book is very proud of Winnipeg's attention to civic beauty, as in the wide boulevards that were laid out in the early 1900s, including somewhat remarkably in the "cosmopolitan" North End, whose poor residents couldn't really have held much influence at City Hall. I expect this is Burrows Avenue:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3046/3119672010_3e6255b7e2_b.jpg

Magnificent parks afford further proof of the progressiveness of the new city:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3209/3119672984_1e230775c2_b.jpg

Main & McDermot looking south, c. 1910:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3238/3119671070_9a9b4ee980_b.jpg

[rgalston]

That is indeed Burrows Avenue, looking west from the foot of the street at the Red River. The church in the background still stands at Burrows and Charles.

I love seeing close-ups that show people on the street. These are great photos.

[Andy6]

Thanks. They are a couple of cuts above the photos typically found in viewbooks of the period. There is a strong theme of showing the recent physical development of the city from the point of view of one with a serious interest in the subject.

Unfortunately I have no photographer to credit; I can't even see an indication of which company printed this.

[1ajs]

That is indeed Burrows Avenue, looking west from the foot of the street at the Red River. The church in the background still stands at Burrows and Charles.

I love seeing close-ups that show people on the street. These are great photos.

indeed it is :) the river trail now inters burows where that photo was taken from :P

[1ajs]

princess 1975
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3234/3119057939_083d3004c6_o.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/norm_a/3119057939/

[Archiseek]

okay, that's hilarious

[flatlander]

okay, that's hilarious

you should see them on the tiny bikes.

[1ajs]

now heres a wow shot from 1948 out front of city hall
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/3120779839_e2ffd36360_b.jpg

[nordique]

amazing job guys, with the photo finds.

[1ajs]

another one this ones 121yrs old 1887
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/2921597169_95411ee9b7_o.jpg

main 1887
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3239/2919534702_2119d62452_o.jpg

notice the building on the botem right burned? being demolished kinda neat


1858 just west of the settle ment probly somewhere in the west end?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/2919412842_e1e697aa8d_o.jpg

[Greco Roman]

1858 just west of the settle ment probly somewhere in the west end?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/2919412842_e1e697aa8d_o.jpg

Hmm, a sign of what was in store 150 years later? :D

[thegreattait]

main 1887
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3239/2919534702_2119d62452_o.jpg

notice the building on the botem right burned? being demolished kinda neat


take a look at the bottom left, the "Clearing Sale" I see some things never change. :notacrook:

[rgalston]

another one this ones 121yrs old 1887
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/2921597169_95411ee9b7_o.jpg


Anyone know where this would be? Somewhere on York?

[drew]

^ it would be nearly impossible to tell. Probably none of those buildings in the picture still exist today.

[rgalston]

^ it would be nearly impossible to tell. Probably none of those buildings in the picture still exist today.

Most likely not. I do think I see the Cauchon block/Empire Hotel in the background, which was on Main near York.

And doesn't it look like a graveyard at the intersection in the foreground? Spooky.

[1ajs]

i was thinking the photo was looking south east it at from perhaps notre dame

[flatlander]

1ajs where did you find those?

I am always surprised how barren the plains are.

[1ajs]

just hunting on flickr for some stuff and stumbled across these. never did find what i was looking for lol

[j.online]

Was looking for a mid-90's street map of Winnipeg, but found this instead. It's a map the first Mennonite delegates from Russia/Prussia made & "points out places of particular interest to the Mennonite pioneers. (http://www.mennonitechurch.ca/programs/archives/holdings/Schroeder_maps/161.htm)"

Wish we were able to still have Brown's creek run through the Exchange. Also, that short street between Portage & Main would have made for some nice angled buildings today...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ZZaumO8y23Q/SVu0QQrEExI/AAAAAAAAAI0/N1ItNTY7DhM/s800/winnipeg_1873.jpg
[source] (http://www.mennonitechurch.ca/programs/archives/holdings/Schroeder_maps/)

(i'm still looking for that 90's street map tho... anyone have something?)

[j.online]

just did a quick overlay of Brown's creek on google earth and it seems John Hirsh Place is much of where old Brown's used to lie (wonder if it's still flowing underground...)

chalk that up to one more superfluous thing to know about Winnipeg.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ZZaumO8y23Q/SVvB7Q86g6I/AAAAAAAAAJU/G3vyIGcqVUo/s800/brown%27s%20creek.png

[flatlander]

If I recall there is a marker for Brown's Creek somewhere near Waterfront Drive, maybe at the end of John Hirsch Place or Bannatyne? Somewhere around there anyhow.

Besides Brown's Creek, Colony Creek ran south along Colony (surprise) and west of the Legislature grounds. I'm sure if it remained today it would be very attractive.

I think the process you're referring to is called 'daylighting.' Many creeks were forced underground for flood control purposes, or perhaps they were seasonal, or whatever. Today these waterways are rehabilitated - I'm thinking of the Don River in toronto but perhaps it wasn't forced underground? Can't remember exactly.

When Waterfront Drive opened a few years ago they designed a small section on the east side with a bridge - i believe that is an acknowledgement of Brown's Creek. For some reason I think there was even a sound system incorporated into the project to convey the sound of rushing water. Who knows.

I picked up a book called "Winnipeg in Maps" at a used bookstore on Academy Road a few years ago. Don't think it's there anymore. The best map that shows Colony Creek is an HBC map from 1887. Both are shown on the Parr map of 1874 as well as one further north emptying into the Red around Alexander. In the Bird's Eye View map of 1880 I can't see any reference to Brown's although it very likely could be there.

[1ajs]

in the late 40's union tower had to have foundation stablization due to that creak

[Andy6]

And of course the foundations of the original City Hall collapsed into the creek, over top of which it was built. These little creeks were basically open sewers and mosquito breeding grounds in the 19th century and were covered up for health reasons as much as anything else, I think. There has been some effort to revive a buried creek in central Toronto (the Taddle Creek, not the Don River) but it hasn't come to anything.

Nice job with the overlay!

[1ajs]

theres also a creek by the redwood bridge... this city is riddles with them lol but yea they have all become storm sewers of sorts witch helps

but there is a storm sewer that fallows that streem if u take a walk during the summer u will find it in the ally between mtx and ashdown...

[flatlander]

http://winnipeg.ca/CLKDMIS/ViewDoc.asp?DocId=8900&SectionId=&InitUrl=

Going to P+D on Tuesday. City is recommending Grade II status, owner is appealing. The recommendation I assume was triggered by a demolition application.

[trueviking]

^^^sorry, i didnt see that....posted the ctv story in the construction thread...



just did a quick overlay of Brown's creek on google earth and it seems John Hirsh Place is much of where old Brown's used to lie (wonder if it's still flowing underground...)

chalk that up to one more superfluous thing to know about Winnipeg.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ZZaumO8y23Q/SVvB7Q86g6I/AAAAAAAAAJU/G3vyIGcqVUo/s800/brown%27s%20creek.png

the building i work in, just west of the traffic cirlce is starting to fall down...the foundations are collapsing and there is emergency work being done right now to stabilize it....my boss suddenly had a 6" gap below his window 2 weeks ago...the bricks were starting to shear on one corner....i wonder if the proximity to the old creek is part of the reason.

could also be that it is a 110 year old building, i guess.

[metonymy]

Here's a pic of the property the owner wants to "demolish for redevelopment".

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RnG65PCpMOs/SV1p3BdD6JI/AAAAAAAAAjM/fp8NFWSbbVk/s320/properity.jpg

[1ajs]

Here's a pic of the property the owner wants to "demolish for redevelopment".

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RnG65PCpMOs/SV1p3BdD6JI/AAAAAAAAAjM/fp8NFWSbbVk/s1600/properity.jpg

here had to reupload it to image shack cause for some bizar reson it was not showing up
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3431/properitync9.jpg

anyhow wtf why would someone want to demolish that?

[1ajs]

the building i work in, just west of the traffic cirlce is starting to fall down...the foundations are collapsing and there is emergency work being done right now to stabilize it....my boss suddenly had a 6" gap below his window 2 weeks ago...the bricks were starting to shear on one corner....i wonder if the proximity to the old creek is part of the reason.

could also be that it is a 110 year old building, i guess.

eeek i hope its not a repeat of the old honey bee cafe on princess :S

also viking the ground is alot more wet then normal and so theres some more shifting going on and thus plays havic on areas where theres been land fill done i hope it can be fixed

[metonymy]

The letter on file from the owner, Prosperity Knitwear, requesting demolition only asks that the permit be issued at the earliest convenience, but doesn't say why.

[rgalston]

It's to build a... wait for it... multi-story parking garage. Or at least that was the word last summer.

[1ajs]

It's to build a... wait for it... multi-story parking garage. Or at least that was the word last summer.
and why? theres a freaking empty surface lot across the st and kity corner why not build on those first

idiots:koko:

[JayM]

and why? theres a freaking empty surface lot across the st and kity corner why not build on those first

idiots:koko:

Sweet! I cannot for the life of me see any downtown parking lots at all! (sarcasm)

[rgalston]

Rather unique-looking (to Winnipeg) apartment block on Graham Avenue between what looks to be Hargrave and Carlton, across from what's now the new Hydro building site, 1968. Banal '70s modernism replaced it long ago.

http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/WinnipegBuildings/wb-images/large/ECBW-51.jpg

[1ajs]

:O i would rather have a restored version of that instead of that hauls store their now

[rgalston]

1880's duplex, SE corner of Logan and Martha, 1962--just before the Disraeli cut through the neighborhood
http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/WinnipegBuildings/wb-images/large/MSTANON-50.jpg

[1ajs]

now thats a shame :(

[Only The Lonely..]

1880's duplex, SE corner of Logan and Martha, 1962--just before the Disraeli cut through the neighborhood
http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/WinnipegBuildings/wb-images/large/MSTANON-50.jpg

But, wasn't the Disraeli bridge built sometime prior to 1957? I know when construction started Steve Juba (1957-77) was yet to be Mayor.

[rgalston]

But, wasn't the Disraeli bridge built sometime prior to 1957? I know when construction started Steve Juba (1957-77) was yet to be Mayor.

The Disraeli bridges were finished by 1959 (I think the river crossing was built first, then across the CPR), but the roadway connecting it to Main St. wasn't built until later in the '60s. People would use Lily and Rupert Street to travel between Main and the Dsiraeli bridges in those interim years, I think.

***
If you look at Google maps, it shows the lane between Lombard and Portage E., and Westbrook and Ship St., labeled as "Thistle Ln." Has this always been the case? And wasn't Portage Avenue east of Main called Thistle Street at one time?

[drew]

the building i work in, just west of the traffic cirlce is starting to fall down...the foundations are collapsing and there is emergency work being done right now to stabilize it....my boss suddenly had a 6" gap below his window 2 weeks ago...the bricks were starting to shear on one corner....i wonder if the proximity to the old creek is part of the reason.

could also be that it is a 110 year old building, i guess.

From what I have seen, the older foundations in Winnipeg are going to really start becoming more and more of a building safety and maintenance disaster in the coming years.

The old rubblestone and non-reinforced concrete foundations that support the bulk of the ~100 year old warehouse and housing stock in this city are approaching the end of their serviceable life, and were never all that well suited to Winnipeg soil conditions anyway (a city by-law should be created mandating that all new house foundations are supported on friction piles wherever possible).

To prolong the lives of these buildings and hold up resale values, I think the City should really think about starting some sort of financial support system in place to start a full-scale foundation replacement in all the older Winnipeg neighbourhoods. It could be patterned like the river stabilization program, with the city eating 50% of the costs. It might be a good "make-work" program to help the local economy as well.

[Archiseek]

anyone know where the winnipeg internment camp was in the first world war?

[Only The Lonely..]

The Disraeli bridges were finished by 1959 (I think the river crossing was built first, then across the CPR), but the roadway connecting it to Main St. wasn't built until later in the '60s. People would use Lily and Rupert Street to travel between Main and the Dsiraeli bridges in those interim years, I think.

***
If you look at Google maps, it shows the lane between Lombard and Portage E., and Westbrook and Ship St., labeled as "Thistle Ln." Has this always been the case? And wasn't Portage Avenue east of Main called Thistle Street at one time?

That's pretty interesting. Thanks.

[Only The Lonely..]

From what I have seen, the older foundations in Winnipeg are going to really start becoming more and more of a building safety and maintenance disaster in the coming years.

The old rubblestone and non-reinforced concrete foundations that support the bulk of the ~100 year old warehouse and housing stock in this city are approaching the end of their serviceable life, and were never all that well suited to Winnipeg soil conditions anyway (a city by-law should be created mandating that all new house foundations are supported on friction piles wherever possible).

To prolong the lives of these buildings and hold up resale values, I think the City should really think about starting some sort of financial support system in place to start a full-scale foundation replacement in all the older Winnipeg neighbourhoods. It could be patterned like the river stabilization program, with the city eating 50% of the costs. It might be a good "make-work" program to help the local economy as well.


Do most people at the city or Heritage Winnipeg know about this? Personally, I had no idea.

Although it makes sense given the age of the buildings in the Exchange.

[rgalston]

From what I have seen, the older foundations in Winnipeg are going to really start becoming more and more of a building safety and maintenance disaster in the coming years.

The old rubblestone and non-reinforced concrete foundations that support the bulk of the ~100 year old warehouse and housing stock in this city are approaching the end of their serviceable life, and were never all that well suited to Winnipeg soil conditions anyway (a city by-law should be created mandating that all new house foundations are supported on friction piles wherever possible).

To prolong the lives of these buildings and hold up resale values, I think the City should really think about starting some sort of financial support system in place to start a full-scale foundation replacement in all the older Winnipeg neighbourhoods. It could be patterned like the river stabilization program, with the city eating 50% of the costs. It might be a good "make-work" program to help the local economy as well.

As far as the city's old building stock goes, my 127-year-old house is at the front of the pack. I am not seeing what I think to be troubling signs in the house's structure. Are there things I should be looking for? Is foundation replacement something all buildings with stone foundations must go through everywhere (ie- Europe, New England), or just in places with clima similar to Winnipeg's?

[1ajs]

rgalston what happens with our foundations is the motor drys out and becomes a powerder and then the foundation beings to shift funy and cave in... couple houses in the nieborhood have had foundation replaceents done cause of this.. but generaly most of the issues we have around here ar cause the weaping tile is caved in and needs replacement aka drainage

[drew]

^ that's pretty much it. You PD guys should check out the west side of 89 Lorne for a great example of a deteriorated rubblestone foundation.

The problem in Winnipeg is moisture and how it affects our clay soils under and around the foundations.

Most older houses are backfilled with native soil (i.e clay), and do not have functioning sub-surface drainage (i.e. weeping tile). After 100 years, most houses have no effective way to remove any water that builds up around the foudnation. When that soil gets wet and freezes, it expands and puts HUGE pressure on the foundation walls. With properly built reinforced concrete walls this isn't a huge concern.

With old, rubblestone foundations the only resistance to the backfill pressure is the mortar which is hugely deteriorated from freeze-thaw action and general wear and tear (completely insulating and putting vapour barriers on rubblestone foundations can help to accelerate their demise, so be careful there too, google that for more info). Couple this inward action from the sides with the up and down action of the clay under the footings, and you have a classic Winnipeg foundation.

When old foundations go, they seem to go pretty quick. You'll notice it happening, with lots of new and large cracks in finishes, water in the basement, doors not functioning, etc. Unless you are living in absolute denial, you will have plenty of warning that someting isn't right in your house.

Your best defense short of installing an entire new foundation is to keep the water around your foundaiton to an absolute minimum. Make sure your eaves drain well and AWAY from your house with extensions. Make sure all the ground, driveways, sidewalks, etc. are graded away from your foundation. Don't park your car within 8-feet of your house foundation (attached garages don't count here).

Of course, I also live in a 100 year old house with a rubblestone foundation...

[drew]

Is foundation replacement something all buildings with stone foundations must go through everywhere (ie- Europe, New England), or just in places with clima similar to Winnipeg's?

I can't speak for other areas, but certainly Winnipeg's one-two punch of clay and REAL winter really put foundations to the test.

[flatlander]

If you look at Google maps, it shows the lane between Lombard and Portage E., and Westbrook and Ship St., labeled as "Thistle Ln." Has this always been the case? And wasn't Portage Avenue east of Main called Thistle Street at one time?

I remember driving up Thistle Lane not too long ago. I think it was closed to permit construction of the ballpark but I'm going off memory here. Does that jive with Google maps? I haven't checked yet.

[1ajs]

any part of the city were theres been any sort in fill on old creaks and marshs there tends to be foundation issues....

but yea water and clay = expantion...
foundatins can only handle being pushed around for so long... even solid concreat one....

[1ajs]

I remember driving up Thistle Lane not too long ago. I think it was closed to permit construction of the ballpark but I'm going off memory here. Does that jive with Google maps? I haven't checked yet.

On a happy side note I am now the proud father of a 6 pound 6 ounce little girl.
congratz flatlander

[Only The Lonely..]

I remember driving up Thistle Lane not too long ago. I think it was closed to permit construction of the ballpark but I'm going off memory here. Does that jive with Google maps? I haven't checked yet.

On a happy side note I am now the proud father of a 6 pound 6 ounce little girl.

Congratulations :cheers:

Now if you can only father a few more kids we will start to make some real headway on Calgary.

[Andy6]

Congratulations :cheers:

Now if you can only father a few more kids we will start to make some real headway on Calgary.

Even better woud be to adopt children from Calgary orphanages.

Portage Av E was formerly Thistle Street, I believe. Thistle Lane was an extension of that.

[1ajs]

andy look slightly to the east theres one called mill st kinda neat
the old ally beside the lonely nutty club building still has the railway ties in the ground also if anyone has ever noticed...

[rgalston]

On a happy side note I am now the proud father of a 6 pound 6 ounce little girl.

Congratulations. Children of your own are the most wonderful things.

[flatlander]

Thanks. I'm having a blast.

[Archiseek]

http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/cab/Volume%2012/Issue%205/v12n5plate2.gif

Strevel Terrace Winnipeg

[drew]

^ Cool. They sure don't build them like they used to.

Any idea where that was?

[Archiseek]

Donald Street

[metonymy]

Donald Street. Designed by George Creeford Brown and constructed in 1899. His most famous designs were the Public Markets Building and Wesley College.

[metonymy]

Fort Garry Court, also designed by George Brown. 160 Main Street. Burned down in 1970s and demolished. Photos from UofM library (http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/WinnipegBuildings/showBuilding.jsp?id=402).

http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/WinnipegBuildings/wb-images/medium/FGCB-50.jpg

http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/WinnipegBuildings/wb-images/medium/FGCB-51.jpg

http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/WinnipegBuildings/wb-images/medium/FGCB-58.jpg

http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/WinnipegBuildings/wb-images/medium/FGCB-71.jpg

http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/WinnipegBuildings/wb-images/medium/FGCB-56.jpg
http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/WinnipegBuildings/wb-images/medium/FGCB-77.jpg

[drew]

Cool. Thanks for the info.

It's amazing how much better that corner at Broadway and Main looks without a surface parking lot...

[Andy6]

Cool. Thanks for the info.

It's amazing how much better that corner at Broadway and Main looks without a surface parking lot...

I'll always remember all that ice hanging off the Fort Garry Court after that fire. It looked so creepy. I think 8 or 10 people died in what might have been the last major fire of the pre-smoke detector era.

[metonymy]

That terrace post got me thinking of other lost Winnipeg terraces.

Wright's Terrace (1882, demolished 1950s) - Edmonton at St. Mary's
http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/WinnipegBuildings/wb-images/medium/TBANON-50.jpg

Houlahan's Terrace (1883) - 395-409 Alexander Avenue
http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/WinnipegBuildings/wb-images/medium/THANON-50.jpg

Below were posted earlier in this thread
Wink's Terrace (location unknown)
http://www.virtual.heritagewinnipeg.com/photogallery/06Homes/06-096.jpg

Hutchison's Terrace (location unknown)
http://www.virtual.heritagewinnipeg.com/photogallery/06Homes/06-099.jpg

O'Brien's Terrace (location unknown)
http://www.virtual.heritagewinnipeg.com/photogallery/06Homes/06-097.jpg

[1ajs]

1919 strike
http://manitobia.ca/cocoon/launch/photos/events/WSC_1919_0621_N12337.jpg

http://manitobia.ca/cocoon/launch/photos/events/WSC_1919_0621_N12321.jpg


http://manitobia.ca/cocoon/launch/photos/people/LBF_1914_N2022.jpg

http://manitobia.ca/cocoon/launch/photos/events/WSC_1919_0610_N12313.jpg

http://manitobia.ca/cocoon/launch/photos/events/WSC_1919_0621_N12318.jpg

http://manitobia.ca/cocoon/launch/photos/events/WSE_1919_0604_N12296.jpghttp://manitobia.ca/cocoon/launch/photos/events/GWV_1919_0604.jpg



1906 Street Railway Strike
http://manitobia.ca/cocoon/launch/photos/events/WSR_1906_0329_N15905.jpg


the great aqueduct
http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/hrb/plaques/plaq1321.jpg

[Only The Lonely..]

:previous:

Nice picts 1ajs. I've never seen those shots of the General Strike before.

[rgalston]

1919 strike

Thanks for posting these.

It sickens me to see this great black eye on our city be celebrated 90 years later.

[metonymy]

Map of royal itinerary, 1939 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/manitobamaps/3131551088/sizes/l/).

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3228/3131551088_f2280b1714_b.jpg

[metonymy]

Winnipeg problems, patterns and influences, 1967 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/manitobamaps/2830175709/sizes/l/).

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3204/2830175709_e9fa7ed7b8_b.jpg

[Biff]

^^^ If you read all the little captions it looks like it was written in 2008. I especially like the "Under use of land Dominated by Parking"....yup that is 2009 for ya...

[drew]

Great finds guys, thanks for posting.

Here is a question, when or why did the Broadway area change from a largely residential area to the one described above with a quasi financial district and other commercial influences?

Crazy that something made in 1969 is still pretty much entirely relevant today. Way to progress Winnipeg!

[flatlander]

Great finds guys, thanks for posting.

Here is a question, when or why did the Broadway area change from a largely residential area to the one described above with a quasi financial district and other commercial influences?

Crazy that something made in 1969 is still pretty much entirely relevant today. Way to progress Winnipeg!

I wonder if that happened roughly at the same time that two way streets were widened to become one way streets? Part of some 'master plan?'

[Archiseek]

1900 - National Trust Company, Main Street, Winnipeg, Manitoba
Architect: George Gouinlock

http://canada.archiseek.com/victoriana/manitoba/images/0005.jpg

[rgalston]

I wonder if that happened roughly at the same time that two way streets were widened to become one way streets? Part of some 'master plan?'

The route system, street widening and boulevard tree removal, et c. all began south of Portage in the years immediately after WWII. The Master Plan came to halfway fruition in the 1960s and '70s. Planning bosses Bernie Wolfe and Earl Levin had a lot to do with that.

[1ajs]

1900 - National Trust Company, Main Street, Winnipeg, Manitoba
Architect: George Gouinlock

http://canada.archiseek.com/victoriana/manitoba/images/0005.jpg
witch corner is that?
bankers row?

[j.online]

^ I believe that was at the SW corner of Main & McDermot

[newflyer]

Great finds guys, thanks for posting.

Here is a question, when or why did the Broadway area change from a largely residential area to the one described above with a quasi financial district and other commercial influences?



I believe the city wanted to relocate the downtown district from north of Portage Ave to South of Portage Ave, as the area known today as the Exchange Distrcit was a mixed use area with warehouses and light industrial. Winnipeg wanted to have a downtown worthy of a major metropolis ... sadly thats where the plans fizzled. Broadway today in mostly made up of govrnment offices and small office buildings... with a scatering of residential. the area south of Broadway is realitively heathy ... but the area just north of broadway is still hindered by seas of surface parking lots (ie: aound he Convention Centre)

On the plus side.. the relocation of modern downtown resulted in the large collection of untouched old building now known as the Exchange District.

It is so sad that people are fighting to save surface lots at the Forks... some people don't learn from the past. Large surface lots will not advance downtown.

[1ajs]

having all the governemt offices on a strip is a good thing though being able to start at one end slowly make your way to the other end

[newflyer]

having all the governemt offices on a strip is a good thing though being able to start at one end slowly make your way to the other end

.. yeah in case you need to file you taxes, file a land title app, apply for a rural grant and collect your welfare cheque .. all on the same day.

How convienent can it get... :banana: