HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2005, 7:04 AM
LosAngelesSportsFan's Avatar
LosAngelesSportsFan LosAngelesSportsFan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,558
LAPD headquarters or New Civic Park?

There is an ongoing battle about which to build on the former Cal Trans Site. I turely beleive that the park will change the area drastically for the better and the LAPD building should be built somewhere else. This is such an important part of the Downtown Revitilization and i hope everyone urges the city council to build the park instead of the LAPD Headquarters.

LABeauty, any updates on which way the council is leaning on this? Maybe you can mention how important this is to people you know.

Here is an Article from the Planning Report about this site as well as a link to LACIVICPARK.ORG

http://lacivicpark.org/



Residents Want Promised Civic Park, Not Police Station for Downtown Los Angeles Site
Concerned citizens say that a new police headquarters downtown would be a detriment to revitalization and on-going cultural initiatives.

On Feb. 3, the LA Cultural Affairs Commission voted against the new Los Angeles Police Department headquarters in Downtown. Continuing our coverage of the proposed police headquarters [See TPR December/January 2005], TPR is pleased to print two memos presented to the Commission before its vote: one from lacivicpark.org, a coalition supporting the use of the land for a park, and another from Adele Yellin, co-chair of a city advisory committee helping to plan the park.

From: lacivicpark.org

To: The LA Cultural AffairsCommission

Re: Hearing on Proposed Police Headquarters, Jan. 20, 2005

The city’s plans to build a new police headquarters on the old Caltrans site and the neighboring block anchored by St. Vibiana’s will undermine the emerging arts and cultural movements downtown and squander the ideal site for a major civic park for Los Angeles.

The city’s abrupt selection of this site for a police headquarters in June 2004 was made without input from the communities most directly affected and disregarded previous plans calling for open space. Hundreds of people have protested this decision at public meetings in August, October and November. More than 1,000 have signed a protest petition. We ask that you not approve this plan – it is short-sighted and short-changes the entire city.

Impact on the arts community would be dramatic.

The block at 1st, 2nd, Spring and Main streets marks the start of Gallery Row, the arts initiative along Main and Spring streets that in less than a year has grown from 4 galleries to 15. Across the street is historic St. Vibiana’s, built in 1876. The former cathedral – narrowly saved from an earlier wrecking ball – has just undergone a $6 million renovation and transformation into an arts center. On the other side of Main, the Linda Lea theater is about to be renovated and re-opened as a film and performance arts venue.

Works of art, art fairs and festivals in the park were to have played a key role in bringing people into the area and supporting these city-backed arts endeavors. Under the city’s current plan, not only would there be no park to showcase artwork and attract crowds, the building on Main where the Gallery Row concept was born -- formerly Inshallah, now MJ Higgins – would be torn down to make space for police parking and a motor pool. The plan leaves virtually no public parking in the area for arts, restaurant and shop patrons.

Allowed to thrive, these important cultural initiatives will help create a lively, authentic arts district that bridges the established art museums just east and west -- MOCA, the Geffen Contemporary and the Japanese American National Museum -- and the Music Center’s performing arts venues up the hill.

The current city plan shows an 11-story, 500,000-square-foot headquarters, an auditorium, parking for 700 police vehicles and a small community park on the old Caltrans site. On the other block, next to St. Vibiana’s, would be parking for another 500 police vehicles and the motor pool where police cars are washed and serviced. This massive project would permanently alter the potential of the area to develop into a commercial and pedestrian friendly zone that would help the arts community and surrounding neighborhoods succeed.

We have a historic opportunity to give the citizens of LA a place in the city’s civic center.

Public parks and civic gathering places are hallmarks of great cities but Los Angeles has grown up with almost none. The old Caltrans block – which is about to become the property of the people of Los Angeles – gives us a rare opportunity to dramatically change that. Urban planners and city officials have repeatedly identified it as ideal for a great public space – the master plan adopted by the City Council in 1997 calls for open space on this block.

At the steps of City Hall, it is the public’s gateway to its government and it is the city’s gateway to its historic core, business districts, and emerging residential and arts corridors. The police building proposed for the site would visually and emotionally close off that connection. Creating a park would nourish it and extend a long-overdue welcome to residents of this far-flung city, so in need of common ground. Bordering the site are LA’s earliest thoroughfares and some of its oldest and newest landmarks – including City Hall, the LA Times, St. Vibiana’s, the new Caltrans building, and, just up the street, Disney Hall. How this block is used will in many ways define the kind of city we become.

Workers, residents and downtown’s children need a healthy, welcoming park.

This site is close to thousands of downtown workers and a growing number of residents who need park space to help them lead healthy lives. In a densely populated area, we have a critical responsibility to ensure that there is park space where people can gather, jog, relax and breath a little easier – and where our children have a safe place to play. Two-thirds of Los Angeles children do not live within walking distance of a public park – the ratio is even worse downtown.

Developing market rate and affordable housing downtown isn’t just a trend, it’s a necessity. Creating a park on this site would radically improve the environment for those who work and live in the surrounding districts and all who come to visit. This is a quality of life and health issue that we can no longer afford to ignore.

A park on this site will foster business and housing development.

Little Tokyo, the Historic Core, Artists, Toy, Broadway, Bunker Hill and Grand Avenue districts will all benefit if pedestrians and other visitors can move easily from one area to another. This site has the unique potential to help bring these interests together in a critical mass of arts venues, restaurants and other businesses. Although banners proclaim downtown as a place to live, work, and play, there is precious little place to meet or play. Human-friendly public spaces will help ensure the success of downtown redevelopment that will generate tax revenue and other benefits for the entire city. Many of the 8,000 new downtown housing units in the pipeline or under consideration are near this site.

A great civic park in downtown LA will be a point of pride for generations to come.

Backers of this park envision a place as extraordinary as this city. The design possibilities have already generated interest around the world. One concept shows it with a great artwork – a palm spiral envisioned by the late artist Robert Smithson. Others show a place where plants transform the space as seasons change, an urban waterscape, a high-tech center for communicating ideas. Most see it with multiple uses, dynamic attractions and an underground parking facility to accommodate visitors. All see it as a place where people from LA’s many and diverse communities can gather and enjoy their city.

All sites are not created equal – and this one is unique.

There are alternative sites that would be suitable for a new police headquarters – and the city needs to redouble efforts to identify them. There is no other site so well suited for a park -- in addition to its keystone location, the old Caltrans site is on level land and is open and welcoming from all sides. The decision to put the LAPD on this site appears to have been made without taking into consideration the impact it would have on the surrounding area – or its value if developed differently. The size and requirements of this project will dominate not just one, but two key blocks in the very heart of the city. The police facility requires security setbacks, there can be no parking underneath the headquarters, access must be tightly controlled, operations must exist in specialized configurations – in short, a defensible space. While these are necessary and important considerations, they preclude other more neighbor-friendly uses.

From wrong location to wrong location: It’s time to find the right site for the LAPD.

The LA City Council listened when residents and businesses in Little Tokyo and the Artists District protested that the police headquarters at 1st and Alameda would disrupt renewal efforts in those communities. But then the council did something stunning: it voted to put the police facility on this even more sensitive site. It is time for city officials to develop a rational plan that gives the LAPD the headquarters it needs and supports rather than disrupts the real yet fragile urban renewal under way downtown. The sooner the city focuses on identifying the right site, the sooner progress can be made.

We ask you, as members of the Cultural Affairs Commission, to help make that happen. And to join us in looking ahead to a new kind of downtown for LA.

Attention: Members of the Cultural Affairs Commission

From: Adele Yellin

Subject: Proposed Police Headquarters at 1st Street: South of City Hall, East of the Los Angeles Times building and West of the new CalTrans headquarters

... Please note my strong objection to the Police Headquarters Project on this site.

Let me explain. My late husband, Ira Yellin helped develop a downtown civic plan that included a public square as its center piece. He was committed to building Los Angeles’ sense of community.

Indeed, Ira was a proponent of a Civic Park, a public green space, opposite City Hall as proposed in the Diamond plan. He was certain that a Civic Square opposite City Hall was important as a gateway between the revitalizing Historic Core and the halls of city government. At the very end of his life he encouraged me and others to make sure the park was created. Ira envisioned the park as a central, gathering place for this city-without-a-center: a place to hold a city gathering for the New Year; a place to protest, a place to celebrate.

Moreover, Ira dreamed of instituting a program in the park similar to the summer program at the Serpentine Gallery in Hyde Park, London. There, each year a famous contemporary architect builds a pavilion for the public to view. This program has been credited with educating the British public on the beauty and creativity of contemporary architecture. While a program such as this could be installed on any site in the city Ira felt this site at the heart of the city was the ideal location.

The problem: The city has decided to build a 500,000 sq. ft. building on the site to house the police headquarters. Parker Center is decrepit and I am committed to making sure the police have a state of the art building for their headquarters. In my view siting the building on this land opposite City Hall is a planning mistake that will be with us into the next century. Not only does it become a physical barrier to the historic core, it is a psychic barrier as well. The message of a heavily fortified police headquarters opposite city hall and next to the LA Times will feel more like a government under siege rather than an open democracy where people can voice their support and/or their objections to one issue or another. I am convinced this is not the message Los Angeles wants to convey to the community and world.

There are a number of other locations that would be ideal for a new LAPD headquarters. The headquarters does not need to occupy the only natural site for a civic square and the gateway to downtown Los Angeles’ historic core. Let me be clear, the placement of the police headquarters building next to the new CalTrans building will create a wall, effectively blocking off the Civic Center from the revitalizing downtown.

I have tried to carry on Ira’s vision. To that end I enlisted the help of the J. Paul Getty Trust; they underwrote a design plan for civic square. I believe this park will make Los Angeles a stronger city. I have emailed to Sharon Paulo the presentation of the Civic Square concept developed by Campbell and Campbell last year. Look at the importance of this open space to anchor, and animate the area; this site is the hinge that connects the civic center with the historic core.

I urge you to object, indeed, to stop this unfortunate planning/building proposal! Preserve this unique site for a Civic Park! ...


About TPR | Print Edition | Email Newsletter | Archive | Contact Us | Home

Copyright © 2003 The Planning Report
David Abel, Publisher, ABL, Inc.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2005, 5:37 PM
POLA's Avatar
POLA POLA is offline
urbanphile
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Western Addition
Posts: 2,147
What can we do to voice our opposistion?
__________________
I'll make no subscription to your paradise.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2005, 6:16 PM
LongBeachUrbanist's Avatar
LongBeachUrbanist LongBeachUrbanist is offline
Ridin' The Metro
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Metro Blue, Wardlow Stop
Posts: 2,578
The City Council is acting like it's a done deal and is moving forward. There is a public comment period, I believe, right now. But who knows if they're going to care...it seems like a formality to me.

Let's be clear: this isn't simply a few NIMBY's who want a park to raise property values. There is a broader issue of good planning vs. bad planning. Building a Police HQ instead of a park south of City Hall would:

* wall off City Hall from the rest of downtown;
* impose a blockade between Little Tokyo, Grand Avenue and the Historic Core;
* drop a massive, noisy motor pool onto the corner of 3rd/Main, destroying any chance of a community there;
* miss a huge opportunity to build a much needed park in Downtown;
* go back on planning and promises to the neighborhood, causing ill-will while sending property values downward;
* will send a message to developers that LA is not serious about promoting it's downtown's renaissance.

If you live in Los Angeles, write to your Councilperson, and also right to Jan Perry, Downtown's Councilperson. Tell them they are making a huge mistake for the future of Downtown.
__________________
COMPLETE THE CENTRAL SUBWAY BY 2020!!!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2005, 9:35 PM
colemonkee's Avatar
colemonkee colemonkee is offline
Ridin' into the sunset
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,534
I completely agree with putting a park on the former CalTrans site is much better for the longevity of downtown. But let me play devil's advocate. If the former CalTrans site and 1st & Alameda won't work, what site DOES work? The motorcade is going to strip the street life from whatever block it's put on, so where is it appropriate to do so? And how far from City Hall (or downtown, for that matter) do you think LAPD will realistically want their headquarters?
__________________
"Then each time Fleetwood would be not so much overcome by remorse as bedazzled at having been shown the secret backlands of wealth, and how sooner or later it depended on some act of murder, seldom limited to once."

Against the Day, Thomas Pynchon
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2005, 9:40 PM
J Church J Church is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: SF, CA
Posts: 12,883
^ there have got to be better sites north of the hollywood freeway.
__________________
San Francisco Cityscape
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2005, 10:23 PM
Wright Concept's Avatar
Wright Concept Wright Concept is offline
I just ran out of B***sht
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 2,338
Quote:
Originally Posted by colemonkee
I completely agree with putting a park on the former CalTrans site is much better for the longevity of downtown. But let me play devil's advocate. If the former CalTrans site and 1st & Alameda won't work, what site DOES work? The motorcade is going to strip the street life from whatever block it's put on, so where is it appropriate to do so? And how far from City Hall (or downtown, for that matter) do you think LAPD will realistically want their headquarters?
Before it became the headquarters of SBC, The current Mayor wanted to rehab Parker Center and add an auxuilary headquarters at the Transamerica now SBC Tower Complex, it's located near Staples Center and it is North of the 10 freeway, but South of the current location (LAPD would have used one of the smaller Towers) to house operations. I like this idea for three reasons;
1) Preserves the Cal-Trans site for the Civic Square
2) Start the clean up of South Broadway, which in turn, will wind its way north into a revival of the Grand theaters.
3) Merge the Fashion District and South Park areas into a new location for Residential/Mixed use development, since there are acres of surface parking lots that can serve as a location for the LAPD do house its police cars. The small station would serve as a anchor into this new neighborhood with a Supermarket or Elementary school to follow.
__________________
"Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support, not illumination." -Vin Scully
The Opposite of PRO is CON, that fact is clearly seen.
If Progress means moves forward, then what does Congress mean?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2005, 7:13 AM
LongBeachUrbanist's Avatar
LongBeachUrbanist LongBeachUrbanist is offline
Ridin' The Metro
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Metro Blue, Wardlow Stop
Posts: 2,578
I just found these pictures on Eric Richardson's website, blogdowntown.com, depicting the future LAPD HQ and motor pool buildings.

Future LAPD HQ building with public plaza:



Site plan:



Another view of future LAPD HQ:



Proposed LAPD motor pool next to Vibiana Plaza:

__________________
COMPLETE THE CENTRAL SUBWAY BY 2020!!!

Last edited by LongBeachUrbanist; Jul 6, 2005 at 7:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2005, 7:27 AM
DJM19 DJM19 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,502
yeah, I saw that awhile ago...I dont like it...looks like something out of the 70s...

And yet I watched the presentation to the police commission on TV and they were praising it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2005, 7:31 AM
EastBayHardCore's Avatar
EastBayHardCore EastBayHardCore is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Inner Sunset
Posts: 5,047
ick. That "public plaza" design ain't pretty. That intersection really needs something with a good streetwall workin and less urban wasteland (a.k.a. plazas)
__________________
"This will not be known as the Times Square of the West," City Council President Alex Padilla declared last week. "Times Square will be known as the L.A. Live of the East."

Will Rogers once said, "children in San Francisco are taught two things: love the Lord and hate Los Angeles."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2005, 7:33 AM
DJM19 DJM19 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,502
Los Angeles is immune to good urban civic buildings now it seems
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2005, 7:43 AM
DaveofCali's Avatar
DaveofCali DaveofCali is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,831
The last thing that Downtown L.A. needs is another office building with a large, underused plaza.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2005, 9:27 AM
LosAngelesSportsFan's Avatar
LosAngelesSportsFan LosAngelesSportsFan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,558
How sad. Everyone wants the park except for the lazy ass politicians.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2005, 9:41 AM
DJM19 DJM19 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,502
with that design, Id take the park in a heart beat.

Im sad the design doesnt resemble the old rendering more. It was so futuristic looking. Like something in 2035...not 1975
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2005, 3:54 PM
Art Art is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Eastside!!!
Posts: 2,887
I fucken hate LA planning, who are these drones?

I good location, besides the other option jerard highlighted, would be either in that industrial wasteland north of the elevated goldline/east of Chinatown OR in that industrial patch just south of the 101 and east of Alameda. Both those areas are dead and have plenty of empty wharehouse lots, amny already owned by the city. How about that giant flat lot just south of the 101 where the original redline eastside extension was to go underground?

On the subject of bad planning and the area northeast of the esgoldline alignment, I am also terribly disappointed at a new huge fire station being planned for the southeast corner of alameda/temple, right next to the esgoldline LilTokyo station! WTF? does someone not want LA to be planned right, that whole lot is screaming highrise TOD and theyre gonna put a suburban noise factory. Please write to your public officials on this one too, you can sorta see the firestation in those UCLA goldline renderings of Alameda/LTokyo station.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2005, 4:01 PM
Wright Concept's Avatar
Wright Concept Wright Concept is offline
I just ran out of B***sht
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 2,338
But at the same time, one has to understand that these services are needed and they need to be housed somewhere. If anything the designs are too large for the area and it's surroundings. A series of smaller headquarters in each district Downtown would and could work just as well as centralizing the facility. The only need to house a central tower that large is for the bureaucratic heads. And again having them in one of the existing towers Downtown could do the job.

On the design factor, it actually works for its location. Keep in mind of what's across Main Street (Caltrans)and how that building is situated and how it's designed and what is on the edge of Spring Street on the opposite side(LA Times) and how that building mirrors that street wall. The only problem is that it looks too tall and the very edge that should be open to City Hall is blocked off.
__________________
"Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support, not illumination." -Vin Scully
The Opposite of PRO is CON, that fact is clearly seen.
If Progress means moves forward, then what does Congress mean?

Last edited by Wright Concept; Jul 6, 2005 at 4:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2005, 4:24 PM
LAMetroGuy's Avatar
LAMetroGuy LAMetroGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 3,148
yeeesh... that is one ugly building. I'm sad and depressed now.
__________________
Since 1997, SkyscraperPage.com's forum has been one of the most active skyscraper and building enthusiast communities on the Internet.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2005, 6:04 PM
LongBeachUrbanist's Avatar
LongBeachUrbanist LongBeachUrbanist is offline
Ridin' The Metro
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Metro Blue, Wardlow Stop
Posts: 2,578
Yeah, it looks like it was designed by Mike Brady. Or Greg. Or Cindy.

That half-assed plaza is a bad compromise IMO. Better to just use the whole block and bring the building out to the sidewalk, than create another useless plaza. Nobody uses plazas!!! What are you supposed to do, stand there? No, you're supposed to keep moving.

I would guess these designs come from suburbanites that have no idea how a city functions.

The Motor Pool is even worse. That building will be situated just south of beautiful St. Vibiana Cathedral, just north of the Medallion project.

There are appropriate places for everything - Police HQ, Motor Pool, Fire Station, etc. It's very simple.

* Don't locate a bunker-style police HQ at the intersection of neighborhoods, if you don't want to wall people off from each other.

* Don't locate a police motor pool in the middle of a growing neighborhood, unless you don't want people to live there.

* Don't locate a fire station next to a transit stop, unless you want constant traffic problems and hope to squander a prime opportunity for dense urban development.
__________________
COMPLETE THE CENTRAL SUBWAY BY 2020!!!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2005, 6:05 PM
LosAngelesBeauty's Avatar
LosAngelesBeauty LosAngelesBeauty is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,610
HAHA I am totally the minority viewpoint here, but I actually kinda like it! I think it might be able to blend in well with the civic center. It'll be sandwiched by Caltrans and US Federal Courthouse, which does and will have much more interesting architecture. PLUS, the plaza will open up to the NEW Grand Park which could provide that open space?

OH well, we gotta live with it now...
__________________
DTLA Rising
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2005, 6:38 PM
DJM19 DJM19 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,502
Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesBeauty
HAHA I am totally the minority viewpoint here, but I actually kinda like it! I think it might be able to blend in well with the civic center. It'll be sandwiched by Caltrans and US Federal Courthouse, which does and will have much more interesting architecture. PLUS, the plaza will open up to the NEW Grand Park which could provide that open space?

OH well, we gotta live with it now...
Well, unfortunately, I think that a lot of civic buildings are ugly, so it will fit right in.

Its already up there with:

The current parker center


The superior court


The federal building


And the DWP (maybe the most tolerable)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2005, 6:47 PM
Wright Concept's Avatar
Wright Concept Wright Concept is offline
I just ran out of B***sht
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 2,338
The DWP is a cool building. I remeber as a kid ( I don't think they do this now), When they have all the interior perimeter lights on the building looks like a glowing cube. In the daytime the overhangs dominate the buildings presence. And the ground level moat that literally looks like clean sheet of paper, all but adds to the simple modernity, yet it was a regenerative cooling the buildings interior. It's one of the only buildings in LA that has that chamellon quality yet is very innovative even 40 years later as an egologically sound building.
__________________
"Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support, not illumination." -Vin Scully
The Opposite of PRO is CON, that fact is clearly seen.
If Progress means moves forward, then what does Congress mean?

Last edited by Wright Concept; Jul 6, 2005 at 6:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:19 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.