HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #41  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 3:11 PM
matt602's Avatar
matt602 matt602 is offline
Hammer'd
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 4,482
Hamilton is also a pretty good example of a city that uses malls as transit hubs. Limeridge Mall, Eastgate Square and the Meadowlands all have bus terminals built into the parking lots with at least 3 or more bus routes serving them. Eastgate Square's bus terminal also received a major re-modeling a few years ago to dedicate to bus service only. Before that, the buses were basically just pulling up to the sidewalk beside the mall and were operating in mixed traffic. The terminal now has it's own islands, bus shelters, benches and pull-in spaces for the buses with room for the future LRT route. It serves 2 branches of the 1 King route, the B-Line BRT route, 2 Stoney Creek bus routes, a route up Confederation Park, and the 44 Rymal route that runs all the way across the Southern edge of the city to the Ancaster business park.
__________________
"Above all, Hamilton must learn to think like a city, not a suburban hybrid where residents drive everywhere. What makes Hamilton interesting is the fact it's a city. The sprawl that surrounds it, which can be found all over North America, is running out of time."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 3:22 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Knowing, not winning
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rogue Canada
Posts: 50,200
Gatineau's two biggest malls, Les Galeries de Hull and Les Promenades de l'Outaouais, actually paid to put their names on the new Rapibus BRT stations located near them. Both also have or had transit terminals on their property, but the Rapibus stations are across the street from them.
__________________
"Tout ce qui est exagéré est insignifiant." - Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #43  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 5:28 PM
Beedok Beedok is offline
Exiled Hamiltonian
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,398
Thunder Bay's main mall (Intercity) has a transit terminal thing. Some of the other malls not so much, but they're fairly minor (usually a grocery store with a shoppers and a dollarstore attached, sometimes a department store and a tiny foodcourt).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 5:58 PM
SpongeG's Avatar
SpongeG SpongeG is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 36,184
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-paladin View Post
In the Metro Vancouver situation, The owners of Coquitlam Centre were willing to pay extra to ensure the Evergreen Line has a station on their property. All the major malls in the Skytrain line areas have stations nearby and have decent connections if they are off property.
coquitlam centre currently has no bus stops on its property, the big transit centre is across the busy lougheed highway, there are a few bus stops on roads around the mall

the station at the mall will make it much easier for bus/transit people
__________________
belowitall
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #45  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 6:07 PM
Elmira Guy's Avatar
Elmira Guy Elmira Guy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Waterloo, ON
Posts: 633
Quote:
Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
Well, come on? Malls are private businesses. Busses typically aren't bringing the people with the big bucks. You really want to fill your mall up with those folks? I'd doubt it. For a mall owner, these are dozens of food court loiterers you'd rather do without.

In cities where everyone uses transit, sure, then you'd want them to have easy access... but if everyone is using transit, the city is probably dense enough that suburban malls aren't a thing anyway.
What do you base that on? Because it's so in St John's, doesn't mean it's so in every Canadian city.

As KWoldtimer said, the major malls in K-W are major transit hubs. I take the bus frequently, and not for financial reasons, but because I don't drive. People using the bus are the sort of people store owners would want coming in, as they're students (university and high school), and middle-class types.

Sorry, but I don't think St John's represents the Canadian status quo here, and as much as you'll disagree with me for saying so, in a way that suggests that St John's is possibly in need of improvement in this matter.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 6:28 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,243
I know until about 2000, in Ottawa, Bayshore just left its buses on a parallel street and actually used that street as a terminus. You had to walk across the first floor of the parking garage to enter the mall in many cases.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 7:00 PM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is offline
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: See post below...
Posts: 30,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmira Guy View Post
What do you base that on? Because it's so in St John's, doesn't mean it's so in every Canadian city.
...Should my description of what it's like in St. John's not be based solely on St. John's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmira Guy View Post
As KWoldtimer said, the major malls in K-W are major transit hubs. I take the bus frequently, and not for financial reasons, but because I don't drive. People using the bus are the sort of people store owners would want coming in, as they're students (university and high school), and middle-class types.
Yeah, that seems to be the norm in many Canadian cities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmira Guy View Post
Sorry, but I don't think St John's represents the Canadian status quo here, and as much as you'll disagree with me for saying so, in a way that suggests that St John's is possibly in need of improvement in this matter.
Oh, I said the same thing myself on the last page.

But I didn't realize the discussion was about the status quo. I thought he was simply asking if there were any malls in Canada that are as bad as his example - and the answer is yes, so I pointed one out.

He seems to already know this isn't the Canadian norm before posing the question, so I didn't imagine that's what he wanted to ask.
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #48  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 7:56 PM
caltrane74's Avatar
caltrane74 caltrane74 is offline
gettin' rich!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 34,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by middeljohn View Post
In Oakville teenage girls take the bus to go spend daddy's money.
I know a senior executive at Microsoft, living on Lakeshore and his kid took the bus to go to Oakville Place.

That is until he got a job selling BMW's over at Budd's BMW. lol

Oakville, rich kids, but still snobs.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #49  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 8:19 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 13,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Gatineau's two biggest malls, Les Galeries de Hull and Les Promenades de l'Outaouais, actually paid to put their names on the new Rapibus BRT stations located near them. Both also have or had transit terminals on their property, but the Rapibus stations are across the street from them.
People had it pretty good when the hub was on La Savane, right in the parking lot, but this new arrangement pretty well blows! (although options were limited)

For those who don't know, this is the station serving Gatineau's largest mall. People have to cross the railroad track and 6+ lane boulevard to get to the mall parking lot on the left.



To be fair, the Rapibus doesn't serve anything very well.

Ottawa on the other hand has mastered the art of serving malls with proper transit;

Bayshore: large Transitway station with Quickie convenience store, large heated area and pedestrian bridge connecting the station to the top level of a parking garage attached to the mall.

Billings Bridge: Transitway station with pedestrian bridge directly to the mall

Gloucester Centre: same (+ to be converted to rapid transit)

St-Laurent Centre: underground Transitway station (to be converted to rapid transit) with direct conncetion to the mall

Rideau Centre: served by two transit hubs (Mackenzie king Bridge for Transitway, Rideau for local east and Gatineau transit). Rideau Street itself is well served but lacks proper bus shelters (in 1983-1990s, Rideau's sidewalks were covered by heated shelters for about 1 km, but these were removed as they attracted homeless people and drug dealers), the Mackenzie-King transit station features proper heated areas and a pedestrian tunnel connecting the two platforms along with the Rideau Centre on the north side and a large federal complex on the south side. Once the downtown tunnel is built, the Rideau Centre will have direct access to the subway station and local buses will be re-distributed between the two platforms to make Rideau Street a little more liveable.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 8:33 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Knowing, not winning
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rogue Canada
Posts: 50,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
People had it pretty good when the hub was on La Savane, right in the parking lot, but this new arrangement pretty well blows! (although options were limited)

For those who don't know, this is the station serving Gatineau's largest mall. People have to cross the railroad track and 6+ lane boulevard to get to the mall parking lot on the left.



To be fair, the Rapibus doesn't serve anything very well.

.
It could have been worse, as the station was originally supposed to be down in the tunnel that you see towards the top right of the picture.

There is a slight glimmer of hope, as Les Promenades is undergoing a renovation and expansion, and the mall is going to be expanded towards the boulevard that you see (notably with the addition of a Maison Simons store), and so that should eat up at least some of the sea of parking that you have to cross to get from the station to the mall.

It's supposed to look something like this:

http://images.lpcdn.ca/569x379/20131...promenades.jpg
__________________
"Tout ce qui est exagéré est insignifiant." - Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 8:52 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 13,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It could have been worse, as the station was originally supposed to be down in the tunnel that you see towards the top right of the picture.

There is a slight glimmer of hope, as Les Promenades is undergoing a renovation and expansion, and the mall is going to be expanded towards the boulevard that you see (notably with the addition of a Maison Simons store), and so that should eat up at least some of the sea of parking that you have to cross to get from the station to the mall.

It's supposed to look something like this:

http://images.lpcdn.ca/569x379/20131...promenades.jpg
I use to think the tunnel would have been a better spot for the station as it would have covered the platform, but looking at it from this angle, I agree this is a slightly better location. Nice to see they'll have a proper pedestrian laneway between Maloney and Les Promenades.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #52  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 9:07 PM
Procrastinational's Avatar
Procrastinational Procrastinational is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 958
Having lived in the States, I think it definitely boils down to there being a huge stigma attached to buses (unlike Canada). In the States, the middle-class and up will generally gladly take commuter rail, light rail transit, etc, but buses are seen as the exclusive domain of the working-poor. VERY few people in the States with the means to own a car take the bus.

Seeing as most of the people spending decent amounts of money at malls are middle class and up, it is not necessary or desirable in the States from a mall's perspective to have good bus access.

I don't mean it in a bad way, but it's definitely a way of keeping the "riff-raff" out. One needs to keep in mind there are much larger, firmly established class and race divisions in the States.

Even in Boston, which has an excellent public transit network, no one likes the buses. That's the biggest difference I noticed between Vancouver and Boston. Vancouver buses are seen as an important feeder part of the network, whereas in Boston, most people commuting to downtown from the suburbs drive to the terminus station of one of the subway lines, and park in one of the many large parking structures that exist at each one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 9:31 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Knowing, not winning
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rogue Canada
Posts: 50,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I use to think the tunnel would have been a better spot for the station as it would have covered the platform, but looking at it from this angle, I agree this is a slightly better location. Nice to see they'll have a proper pedestrian laneway between Maloney and Les Promenades.
I also thought the station in the tunnel was an OK idea at first as well, but that intersection that you would have to cross (Gréber-Maloney) is many times worse than the one they chose. It's basically equivalent to two of that big boulevard meeting up, and with a few more lanes added to the mix.

Plus the sea of parking you'd have to cross is at least three or four times the distance compared to the other spot, and there isn't even a linear route to take. You'd basically be walking through rows of parked cars to get to the mall.

For the record, I've walked across Maloney from the station a few times this winter (including on a really cold night) and it's not as bad as it looks. It's a fairly short distance. Plus there aren't any trains running there at the moment.

But yes, they do have to make it a lot better.
__________________
"Tout ce qui est exagéré est insignifiant." - Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 9:45 PM
MTLskyline's Avatar
MTLskyline MTLskyline is offline
The good old days are now
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,220
A BRT like that would be great on Taschereau in Longueuil/Brossard.

For a suburban area, the south shore of Montreal has OK bus service, although around malls, it's usually confined to the outside perimeter of parking lots in small dated shelters.

Place Longueuil (a stone's throw from the Longueuil bus terminus/Metro and Old Longueuil)

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.53080...p7HxXIKF0g!2e0

Mail Champlain (a stone's throw from the Brossard-Panama bus terminus)

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.47355...3_V1k5VBKQ!2e0

Promenades St-Bruno (probably the worst offender)

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.50670...cYSg-R0WWQ!2e0
__________________
Montreal Skyline Photo Group

Last edited by MTLskyline; Feb 13, 2014 at 10:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #55  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 9:52 PM
Elmira Guy's Avatar
Elmira Guy Elmira Guy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Waterloo, ON
Posts: 633
My comments were in response to your general assumption that buses only transport people that malls would not want frequenting their businesses. If I inaccurately inferred your meaning, then I apologize, but you did not indicate any specific geographic locale in your first paragraph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
...Should my description of what it's like in St. John's not be based solely on St. John's

Yeah, that seems to be the norm in many Canadian cities.



Oh, I said the same thing myself on the last page.

But I didn't realize the discussion was about the status quo. I thought he was simply asking if there were any malls in Canada that are as bad as his example - and the answer is yes, so I pointed one out.

He seems to already know this isn't the Canadian norm before posing the question, so I didn't imagine that's what he wanted to ask.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 9:55 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Knowing, not winning
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rogue Canada
Posts: 50,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTLskyline View Post
A BRT like that would be great on Taschereau in Longueuil/Brossard.

For a suburban area, the south shore of Montreal has OK bus service, although around malls, it's usually confined to the outside perimeter of parking lots in small dated shelters.
It's a similarly laid out area. And is also (sorry folks) fairly similar to Laval.
__________________
"Tout ce qui est exagéré est insignifiant." - Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #57  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 10:04 PM
manny_santos's Avatar
manny_santos manny_santos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Westminster
Posts: 3,661
The one place in the U.S. I'd say buses don't have heavy stigma is in Manhattan. Although it's not the primary means of public transit there, the crowd I saw on their buses when I was there wasn't particularly poor. But Manhattan is a whole different animal than other cities.

Where I do see bus stigma on both sides of the border is with Greyhound.
__________________
Help control the pet population, have your pets spayed or neutered.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #58  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 10:10 PM
MTLskyline's Avatar
MTLskyline MTLskyline is offline
The good old days are now
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It's a similarly laid out area. And is also (sorry folks) fairly similar to Laval.
Not sure I follow? Gatineau is like a mix of Laval and Longueuil?
__________________
Montreal Skyline Photo Group
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #59  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 10:15 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Knowing, not winning
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rogue Canada
Posts: 50,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTLskyline View Post
Not sure I follow? Gatineau is like a mix of Laval and Longueuil?

That could be said. You've never been here?
__________________
"Tout ce qui est exagéré est insignifiant." - Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #60  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 10:24 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 13,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTLskyline View Post
Not sure I follow? Gatineau is like a mix of Laval and Longueuil?
I'd say the "old" Gatineau sector of Gatineau is similar to Laval and the Hull sector is more like Longueil.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:58 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.