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  #301  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 5:00 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Here it is anyway, laid out to keep the 3 story modern building. The stadium would have to be reconfigured slightly.

     
     
  #302  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 5:12 AM
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Originally Posted by BravoZulu View Post
I have been following this thread for a while and would love to see a stadium built in Halifax. I think it is the most realistic expectation Halifax has of getting pro sports and wouldbe huge to give truly a coast to coast league.

I think that the stadium has to be on the peninsula, and reasonable close to downtown ie walking distance.

This would mitigate the traffic issues as many would arrive early to go to local pubs and restaurants, and many would sick around after the game for a bite to eat or some refreshments. Nothing would be worse in my opinion than walking out of a stadium only to be in the middle of nowhere.

I think the best case scenario is to use the current field at SMU as a starting point, obviously the stadium there needs replacement, and cost sharing with the university would be a good way to get a portion of the funds. I think it is reasonable to put the stadium there, it may require the removal of the gym building but perhaps that could be redevelopped either elsewhere or incorporated with the stadium somehow.

My other though with regards to location is across the road from pier 21, there re currently some buildings there, but it looks like there might be enough space if they were removed.
I thinks that is all (sorry for the book maybe I should have been posting instead of saving it all up)
Please keep posting BravoZulu. In order for Halifax to get a stadium the silent proponents of a stadium must become more vocal than the naysayers. I agree with all your points and it is too bad that the SMU stadium is so confined since they seem to be interested in refurbishing their stadium..
     
     
  #303  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 7:22 AM
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What about the area around the grain elevator?

Wanderers Grounds is a good spot, save for it being part of the commons, so long as we could find a new home for the Museum of Natural History (3 story modern building), and the Bengal Lancers. I can't remember if there is a tender to tear down the senior citizens centre on Sackville or not.

I've always felt though that area, with the nursery for the public gardens right there, would make a perfect spot for a botanical garden. We had one a while ago. (off topic sorry)
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  #304  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 11:05 AM
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What about the area around the grain elevator?

Wanderers Grounds is a good spot, save for it being part of the commons, so long as we could find a new home for the Museum of Natural History (3 story modern building), and the Bengal Lancers. I can't remember if there is a tender to tear down the senior citizens centre on Sackville or not.

I've always felt though that area, with the nursery for the public gardens right there, would make a perfect spot for a botanical garden. We had one a while ago. (off topic sorry)
So that is the Museum of Natural History. I have been in there, many years ago. Yes you are right, Halifax should keep these buildings. Also if a concert is being held, the noise in the Public Gardens might not be appreciated (although, just out of interest, that area is sometimes used for free concerts using the side of the Citadel Hill as a natural stadium).

I will check the grain elevators location (are these still in use?). If the Salter Street development doesn't proceed then a stadium at that location might work, and since it is owned by the Port Authority, it might be available (I think they were planning to lease, not sell it, it for the Salter Street development).

We can rule out one more site (the Wanderers Grounds).
     
     
  #305  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
Here it is anyway, laid out to keep the 3 story modern building. The stadium would have to be reconfigured slightly.

Thats the museum of natural history so it'd defenitely have to be kept unless a better location can be found for it.
     
     
  #306  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
So that is the Museum of Natural History. I have been in there, many years ago. Yes you are right, Halifax should keep these buildings. Also if a concert is being held, the noise in the Public Gardens might not be appreciated (although, just out of interest, that area is sometimes used for free concerts using the side of the Citadel Hill as a natural stadium).

I will check the grain elevators location (are these still in use?). If the Salter Street development doesn't proceed then a stadium at that location might work, and since it is owned by the Port Authority, it might be available (I think they were planning to lease, not sell it, it for the Salter Street development).

We can rule out one more site (the Wanderers Grounds).
I still think you could shoehorn a stadium in between Bayne St. and Bedford Basin. This is the old Africville site between Seaview Park and Ceres container terminal. Perhaps a bit of infill would be required but we would have a Candlestick Park and a boardwalk and marina could be added.
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  #307  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 1:01 PM
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I still think you could shoehorn a stadium in between Bayne St. and Bedford Basin. This is the old Africville site between Seaview Park and Ceres container terminal. Perhaps a bit of infill would be required but we would have a Candlestick Park and a boardwalk and marina could be added.
It likely would fit. But how good is the access to that site and who owns it? I looks like it is hemmed in by the container terminal and highway (bridge access road). Probably it won't win any architectural awards simply because of the location.

The Candlestick Park was known as being cold and windy. There was a derogatory nickname for it, which I forget (I was a big Expos fan and this is one of the parks that they traveled to).
     
     
  #308  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 1:20 PM
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Yeah but that location is so cut off from everything... you can't walk to anywhere from there...

There's two things in my opinion you need. Good transportation access, both public transit and by car (highway access would be ideal), and good access to some place to get hammered after the Atlantic Schooners win the 2017 Grey Cup
     
     
  #309  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 1:21 PM
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Is there any chance of them tearing it down? This would be a great location for a stadium. The Wanderers Grounds was used as a rugby field for many years based on what I read. This hardly even seems like part of the Commons.
With a council whose entire track record is nothing but farce after farce, this designation is among the biggest farce of all.

No chance of having it torn down now. A well-placed molotov cocktail is about the only hope of reversing the situation.
     
     
  #310  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 1:26 PM
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Originally Posted by hfx_chris View Post
Yeah but that location is so cut off from everything... you can't walk to anywhere from there...

There's two things in my opinion you need. Good transportation access, both public transit and by car (highway access would be ideal), and good access to some place to get hammered after the Atlantic Schooners win the 2017 Grey Cup
I am hoping that it will be sooner than 2017. However, this will depend on the quality of players that they get.

I seriously hope that 2017 won't come without a good stadium in Halifax.

Time to get to work. This thread is becoming a preoccupation with me. I look forward to the day when there will be a thread about the actual construction progress.
     
     
  #311  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
I am hoping that it will be sooner than 2017. However, this will depend on the quality of players that they get.

I seriously hope that 2017 won't come without a good stadium in Halifax.

Time to get to work. This thread is becoming a preoccupation with me. I look forward to the day when there will be a thread about the actual construction progress.
I hear ya. I feel that we have some momentum already with the discussions in this thread and it is beginning to turn into a grass roots movement. Instead of attitudes like it will never get build, we all seem determined to not let up until someone takes notice.

There are some factors benefiting the need for a stadium that were not around say 10 years ago.

-I think the fact that it is almost 2010, and Huskies stadium is falling apart (may lose Uteck Bowl).

-Moncton is building a stadium that will host a CFL game.

-Halifax is a Major Canadian City that is growing fast, yet we have no professional sport team on the east coast.

-They (the city) owe us some infrastructure after getting our hopes up for the failed commonwealth games bid.
     
     
  #312  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
I am hoping that it will be sooner than 2017. However, this will depend on the quality of players that they get.

I seriously hope that 2017 won't come without a good stadium in Halifax.

Time to get to work. This thread is becoming a preoccupation with me. I look forward to the day when there will be a thread about the actual construction progress.
Have you been in contact with the Atlantic Schooners group?

http://www.atlanticschooners.com/about-us.html

At the time, it was proposed to rebuild the existing stadium at Beasley Field Dartmouth (2000+ seats increase to 20,000 ) for the Schooners. Not an ideal location and access is limited but a stadium was seriously considered for that site.
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Last edited by Empire; Nov 27, 2009 at 4:51 PM.
     
     
  #313  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 5:39 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by Empire View Post
Have you been in contact with the Atlantic Schooners group?

http://www.atlanticschooners.com/about-us.html

At the time, it was proposed to rebuild the existing stadium at Beasley Field Dartmouth (2000+ seats increase to 20,000 ) for the Schooners. Not an ideal location and access is limited but a stadium was seriously considered for that site.
I had heard that they were still active at Grey Cup games. Thanks for the link to their website. Their website looks very good. I will send an email to them with a link to the skyscraperpage thread. The Advocates of an HRM Stadium need a website like this.

In order to get a stadium built there will have to be overwhelming support from the community otherwise it is easy for the people in power to ignore it. (I am thinking about the type of support that the Roughriders have in Saskatchewan). So the more people involved the better.

Is it possible for people to attend HRM council meetings and raise issues with the council? I am not talking about causing a disruption but simply let them know that there are people interested. How come Halifax is at a "request for proposals" stage of a library but not a stadium. Apparently there are people in council who made it their objective to have the library built. I just wonder if there are that many more people interested in going to a library than going to a stadium, or is it just that there are councilors who will promote a library but oppose a stadium? Don't get me wrong, I am all for a new library but where is the support for the sports fans in the Halifax area? Is it just a lack of sports fans on the HRM council? We aren't talking about solving world hunger here. So this may not seem like an important issue. However, recreation and sports are an important part of the quality of life in a city. And also, I think that a stadium and CFL team will bring just as many people to the city as a convention centre. Both are important in promoting the city. This will be important to the Halifax area in attracting people to the city and retaining them.

In the next 30 years I expect Halifax to go from a medium size city to a large city of 600,000 - 700,000. That is a growth rate of 1.5% a year which is just steady growth similar to what the HRM is currently experiencing. So it would be a good idea to start gaining the amenities expected to be found in a large city.

Last edited by fenwick16; Nov 27, 2009 at 7:05 PM.
     
     
  #314  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 7:46 PM
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The petition seems to be gaining a little momentum.

http://www.petitiononline.com/hstadium/petition.html
     
     
  #315  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 8:14 PM
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How about a design like Yager Stadium at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio.
Built in 1983 the design has had crowds between 25,000 and 30,000.
Not sure what the construction cost would be in 2010.
Fenwick16 I know this is not a CFL size field, but could you try this design on some of the sites that have been suggested, or this too much like McMahon stadium to make a difference?





http://www.muredhawks.com/facilities...r-stadium.html

Construction cost to build the original design was $13.5 million in 1983. Renovation was done in 2003-2005.
     
     
  #316  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2009, 11:10 PM
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How about a design like Yager Stadium at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio.
Built in 1983 the design has had crowds between 25,000 and 30,000.
Not sure what the construction cost would be in 2010.
Fenwick16 I know this is not a CFL size field, but could you try this design on some of the sites that have been suggested, or this too much like McMahon stadium to make a difference?

Construction cost to build the original design was $13.5 million in 1983. Renovation was done in 2003-2005.
I like this stadium. It looks similar in size to the InfoCision Stadium in Akron, Ohio. Initially I had thought of trying the Akron Stadium on various sites but decided that it would give false data since the Canadian stadiums (Stadia) are 150 yards long (they have deeper end zones in addition to a longer field) as opposed to 120 yards for US stadiums. The width is also significantly wider. So the same height of stands along the full length of a Canadian field will have a significantly higher capacity.

I would prefer to stick to Canadian football fields. But just out of curiosity I would like to try the Indianapolis Lucas Oil stadium on a couple of sites around Halifax. I have a feeling that even at 63,000 seats that it is probably similar in size to McMahon. One Canadian stadium that I would really like to try would be the new Blue Bombers proposed stadium if I can find an overhead drawing. I think that I could scale it based on the football field dimensions (since we won't find it on any Google Earth Maps).

Yes, the number of petition names seems to be picking up. I wonder if the author of that petition is involved in this thread? I sent him an email a couple of weeks ago with a link to this thread (his email address was on the petition). It is good that there is room for a short comment with the names. However, I think to be effective the number of names should be a few thousand at least.
     
     
  #317  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 12:03 AM
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Just out of interest, to compare a Canadian football stadium that seats 35,000 (the full version of Calgary's McMahon) and the Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis that seats 63,000 (just the skeleton is shown since it was under construction at the time). The Lucas Oil Stadium is just slightly bigger than McMahon. McMahon is very similar in physical size to the old RCA Dome (still present in this picture although it has now been demolished).

I have been using the correct scale of McMahon on the Halifax sites but with the upper level of seating cropped off (I estimate the cropped version to be about 30,000 total seats since the upper tier that was cropped off is much smaller than the lower tier). The version below is not cropped.

     
     
  #318  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by q12 View Post
How about a design like Yager Stadium at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio.
Built in 1983 the design has had crowds between 25,000 and 30,000.
Not sure what the construction cost would be in 2010.
Fenwick16 I know this is not a CFL size field, but could you try this design on some of the sites that have been suggested, or this too much like McMahon stadium to make a difference?

Construction cost to build the original design was $13.5 million in 1983. Renovation was done in 2003-2005.
Here is a comparison of Yager Stadium, the cropped version of McMahon that I have been using on Halifax sites, and the full version of McMahon (not cropped) all on the same image. You can see the difference in field size. However, Yager stadium doesn't look very compact for a 30,000 seat US stadium. It looks to be very similar in overall size to McMahon Stadium.

You can tell that I have too much free time.

     
     
  #319  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 1:52 PM
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Potential Downtown Stadium Site?

I tried the grain elevator location but there wasn't enough room. The Salter Street site is also too small. However, how about the area close to the Via Station?

The tracks for the Via Station would not be disturbed and part of the stadium could even overhang the tracks. The only tracks that would be removed would be the ones that I think were used for the converted waterfront sheds, i.e. Pier 21, NSCAD, Farmers Market ... These are not the tracks going to the container terminal (it shouldn't affect the trains to the container terminal). To me this looks like it has a lot of potential. Most likely this area is owned by the Halifax Port Authority. This area is increasing becoming commercial. I am sure that this would be prime development land, however, there would still be room around the stadium that can be developed. It also raises the possibility of having train transit to the stadium by Via (provincial and out of province) and local areas. This looks like a great redevelopment possibility. Old train track lands have been used throughout North America for arenas and stadiums (stadia). Example, the Skydome (Rogers Centre).

The stadium can be built to accommodate Marginal Road, or Marginal Road can be slightly reconfigured.

     
     
  #320  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 1:54 PM
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I think that the situation in New York City is worth noting, especially since that city has similar geography to Halifax. The NFL Jets football team was trying to build a new “West Side Stadium” in Manhattan but failed for several reasons. Both their existing and future stadiums are not in a central location, but in another state. But realistically, the stadiums in East Rutherford, New Jersey are quite close to Manhattan. I went to a basketball game at the Izod Centre (just beside the football stadium) and found that the city had set up convenient event buses from the main bus terminal downtown. However, from what I could tell, there were no nearby locations for pre/post game food or drinks (excepting tailgates).

For my two cents, I would prefer to see the stadium on the peninsula. It appears that Young/Windsor is the best choice for transit links, highway access and nearby “amenities”. However, a lot of the other proposed locations could me made to work quite well. In some of these locations there may be traffic woes or there may be no amenities. No location will be perfect. We should be pragmatic and work to ensure that Halifax builds a stadium. I think proponents like us can help the city by brainstorming the many possibilities of locations. Even if the stadium isn't in our preferred location, I and many others will still be thankful when it is built.

Also, I think that 15,000-25,000 seats would be sufficient. I support starting small and expanding later.
     
     
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