HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2009, 4:36 AM
Architype's Avatar
Architype Architype is online now
♒︎ Declassified
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 🍁 Canada
Posts: 10,142
St. John's, N.L.

Here's some info on the old system in St. John's Newfoundland.

Source: http://www.heritage.nf.ca/society/ra...html#streetcar
The St. John's streetcar system operated from 1900 to 1948.
From D.W. Prowse, The Newfoundland Guide Book, 1905 (London: Bradbury, Agnew, 1905) 121. http://www.heritage.nf.ca/society/ra...html#streetcar

Ther streetcar system served all of downtown and central adjacent areas. Most of the city would have been within easy walking distance to the line, and was better served than it is today.
Quote:
The 1898 Railway Contract provided for Reid (the railway company) to build a street car system for downtown St. John's. The St. John's Electric Street Railway was integrated with the first hydro-electric development in Newfoundland, a plant at Petty Harbour. The system was operated by the Reids from 1900 to 1924, and by the St. John's Light and Power Company -a Reid subsidiary- from 1924 to 1948.
http://www.heritage.nf.ca/society/ra...html#streetcar
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2009, 12:38 PM
vid's Avatar
vid vid is offline
I am a typical
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 41,172
The Port Arthur Street Railway was the first municipally operated transit company in Canada. (All others were privately run up to this point.) They built it in response to the depression in the community after the McKinley Silver Tariff took effect. It gave poor Port Arthurites an easy way to get to the jobs in Fort William. In 1914, it was severed into two companies by the provincial government, each run by the municipality in which the tracks were located. The Country Club Line is an exception. It ran to a swamp that was supposed to be a really fancy residential neighbourhood called Ocean View Heights, but it never took off, so the line essentially went nowhere. The street car system stopped operating in 1949. Trolleybuses were decommissioned in 1972.

The colours represent when the system was expanded, not which lines represent which route. Most of today's bus routes run down streets that had street cars.



It is superimposed on a modern street map but areas that weren't built up in 1914 are shaded out.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2009, 4:11 PM
metroXpress's Avatar
metroXpress metroXpress is offline
(||||||-||||-||||||)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 2,220
Here's a map for Vancouver

__________________
"Think simple…reduce the whole
of its parts into the simplest terms,
Getting back to first principles"


~ FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2009, 4:12 PM
metroXpress's Avatar
metroXpress metroXpress is offline
(||||||-||||-||||||)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 2,220
Here's another one

__________________
"Think simple…reduce the whole
of its parts into the simplest terms,
Getting back to first principles"


~ FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2009, 4:26 PM
vid's Avatar
vid vid is offline
I am a typical
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 41,172
What about a north-south line on the peninsula?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2009, 4:34 PM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Otisburgh
Posts: 40,372
Montreal has thrown around a lot of proposals over the years, for LRT/streetcars along Ave. Parc, Rue Ste Catherine, Vieux Port, Waste Island, etc.
__________________
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -President Lyndon B. Johnson
"If anything it should be a requirement we have lawns and big leafy trees in the desert cities" (Obadno)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2009, 5:43 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is offline
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 19,512
There's replica streetcar buses in Hamilton, for the downtown-waterfront route. It's a free route.


Source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9970374@N04/2676626608
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2009, 8:27 PM
LeftCoaster's Avatar
LeftCoaster LeftCoaster is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toroncouver
Posts: 12,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post
What about a north-south line on the peninsula?
For some reason there isn't anything in any of the plans. I seem to remember seeing something about it somewhere but I cant remember where. The route is somewhat already covered by the Canada line which runs down Granville but veers east around Nelson and ends up in Yaletown. It would make sense to me to run one down Granville and across the Granville St bridge, as it is already a transit only street for stretches, but its probably a long way off.

I'm still not totally sold on streetcars. While I understand a lot of people would rather ride a street car over a bus, and streetcars therefore might facilitate increased ridership, I do question the level of increased ridership the relatively large investments needed for a streetcar system would yeild. The increased capacity of a streetcar over a bus is certainly necessary for some routes however... and they just plain look cooler.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2009, 8:39 PM
NetMapel's Avatar
NetMapel NetMapel is offline
Hello World
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
For some reason there isn't anything in any of the plans. I seem to remember seeing something about it somewhere but I cant remember where. The route is somewhat already covered by the Canada line which runs down Granville but veers east around Nelson and ends up in Yaletown. It would make sense to me to run one down Granville and across the Granville St bridge, as it is already a transit only street for stretches, but its probably a long way off.

I'm still not totally sold on streetcars. While I understand a lot of people would rather ride a street car over a bus, and streetcars therefore might facilitate increased ridership, I do question the level of increased ridership the relatively large investments needed for a streetcar system would yeild. The increased capacity of a streetcar over a bus is certainly necessary for some routes however... and they just plain look cooler.
Well I think it would be a good idea to replace some bus routes with street cars and allocate those buses to other areas that need more buses. That way, we saved some traffic in downtown and also improved services in other part of the region
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2009, 8:52 PM
Beltliner's Avatar
Beltliner Beltliner is offline
Unsafe at Any Speed
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 949
^^^ The key is to find the right mix of headways and local density to justify the operating costs of a tram route. The TTC's loading standards are a good example of how high to aim: The Hogtown ALRV and the Siemens S-70 Avanto, for example, are similar enough for government work that you can tell you'll need about a hundred passengers per vehicle per hour in rush hour, and between sixty and eighty in off-peak hours, to keep the lights on and pay the drivers. If you play your cards right, though, the 240-passenger crush load on an Avanto (or even the 205-passenger crush load on an ALRV) will give you the total-day leeway by way of paying rush-hour customers.
__________________
Now waste even more time! @Beltliner403 on Twitter!

Always pleased to serve my growing clientele.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2009, 9:47 PM
Kitchissippi's Avatar
Kitchissippi Kitchissippi is offline
Busy Beaver
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,192
Ottawa had a streetcar system until 1959. Also some of the best electric streetcars used to be built in this city. Across the river, Hull also had its own system.




Photo Source: Ottawa: City of the Big Ears by Robert Haig


P. Lambert, from the TTC website
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2009, 1:18 AM
ue ue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,450
This would be my proposal for Edmonton (excuse some of the Edmontonisms, if you don't get them ask)

Veteran's Park - small park on a quiet area of the downtown

WLRT - Extending the LRT to the west end. Two routes are proposed, but only one will make it. One goes through many older neighbourhoods like Oliver and Jasper Place and eventually gets at West Edmonton Mall. The 87 Avenue route goes from the Health Sciences station at the U of A on 87 Ave across the river and continuing on 87 Ave to Lewis Farms.

SLR - the South LRT extension to Century Park TOD.

Rice Howard Way has no enterances via 101st but there is a small alleyway that connects to it. That is what I am talking about later on.

If there are any other questions let me know.


Credit me using Google Maps.

This is an overall map...the whole thing in how I would design it. As you can see I use existing infrastructure from the High Level Trolley. But rather, I extend it. The arrows indicate the direction in which the streetcar goes.

If you look at what I call the "downtown loop", where the streetcar is on 102 and 100 Avenues there is a line on 100th going east and then it loops on 102nd to go west. This way it (the tracks) is not too big that it would disrupt lots of traffic and the lane amounts, but rather there would be one small lane, in the median of the road, or on the side beside the sidewalk. Having stops at similar streets on for example the downtown loop, or even the Old Strathcona loop, give riders the ease of having a station to stop at on roughly the same street just a block or two north or south (or in some cases east and west).

Now you may have noticed some areas like around the High Level bridge do not have arrows showing which direction. That is because 100 Avenue between 108 and 110 Streets, as well as the area between 109 and 110 Streets, the High Level bridge, and the part that goes through Northern Strathcona until 105st/85ave is all two way. This means the trolleys are double the size and can go both directions in these parts. 100 Avenue just west of 109 Street there is a station, currently there is one too, and that would become the hub because it is where many lines meet.

I tried to incorperate it into much of Edmonton's urban neighbourhoods. I left out places like Glenora, 118 Avenue, and the Highlands for a future extension sort of thing. I find that streetcars are easier to figure out lines for because they take out way less room than LRT and are less likely to rip through the neighbourhood(s).

If a streetcar is built in this manner in the Oliver and Old Glenora areas like my map, I would pull down my support for 102 ave/stony plain/156st/87ave/wem LRT route in favour of the 87ave route. I also don't think there would be much need in an LRT on Whyte Avenue either meaning I'd throw a hat in for Dawson Bridge proposals.

To look at it more closely, I also made a downtown inset...

Credit me using Google Maps.

The little circley images would be stations and the purple represents the existing line. I was very keen on it getting into the Warehouse District and Churchill SQ areas. You'll note halfway between between Jasper and 102 avenue on 101 st where the streetcar line is, there is a right turn available for more lines...but it doesn't go through a road. That's because it usues an existing alley and then connects up to 101A Avenue then up 100 St into Churchill Sq.

Also where Veteran's Park is, you'll note that the streetcar does not entirely go on the roads there, rather it goes through the northwestern corner of the park, which i think would be a neat change of pace.

I realize I am not in the transportation industry, so my routes just might not work, or some info on the streetcar I based my stuff on might not work ... may as well remind you that I am no professional, merely interested in the streetcars.

I fully support Edmonton opening a full streetcar system in our urban areas as they add to the urban fabric, look very cool, and are an efficient way to travel. Plus I am guessing the streetcar would be quicker to build, considering Vancouver is building a small line for the Olympics in 2 years, it takes us a bit longer with SLRT.

If you think my work sucks or it is wrong, let me know, but don't be harsh.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2009, 4:53 PM
Beltliner's Avatar
Beltliner Beltliner is offline
Unsafe at Any Speed
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 949
^^^ You folks might be interested in this post by way of my riposte.
__________________
Now waste even more time! @Beltliner403 on Twitter!

Always pleased to serve my growing clientele.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2009, 5:52 PM
ue ue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,450
^That would be cool to have in Calgary. Seems to it all the major areas that would benefit from it. Looks though that unlike the Edmonton one I "proposed" most of it is two laned save the Beltline leg and downtown legs as well as Inglewood . That would be much easier to do in my opinion because you don't need to worry about a station 2-3 blocks over going in the other direction but it takes up more room and that is my beef with it. It might cause more traffic and what not. But I guess to each there are positives and negatives. From what I know about the Portland line, most to all of it goes one way with the other direction a couple blocks off like mine, a double line I guess you would call it. Good work, btw!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2009, 1:17 AM
sparky212's Avatar
sparky212 sparky212 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London Ont.
Posts: 497
London had one for a while but It was scrapped in the 50's
__________________
visit my mini city at http://londonto.myminicity.com/env
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2009, 1:38 AM
ue ue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,450
It seems most were scrapped in the 50s.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2009, 1:59 AM
metroXpress's Avatar
metroXpress metroXpress is offline
(||||||-||||-||||||)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 2,220
I didn't know that there is a Canada Place in Edmonton. What type of facility is it?

By the way, thanks for your detailed map. It gave me a better understanding of the region's need. I think there are too much stations in the downtown area. People should be able to walk for a block or two. (102 Ave and 100 Ave...close to Downtown) Excuse me if I am wrong. I guess that is the core and there is a demand for it.


Any suggestion for the locals?
__________________
"Think simple…reduce the whole
of its parts into the simplest terms,
Getting back to first principles"


~ FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2009, 2:00 AM
metroXpress's Avatar
metroXpress metroXpress is offline
(||||||-||||-||||||)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 2,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post
What about a north-south line on the peninsula?
Are you refering to Downtown Vancouver? There north-south line would be covered by SkyTrain (Expo and Canada Line)

I will find a better one or map one myself.
__________________
"Think simple…reduce the whole
of its parts into the simplest terms,
Getting back to first principles"


~ FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2009, 3:09 AM
ue ue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,450
^^ Allen,

Thanks for the response. 102 ave is in the warehouse district in downtown and 100 ave in the government district in downtown. Canada Place is our government office place. Big pinkey glassy building. Some of the spacings I guess are a little too close, maybe two instead of three on each side (102 and 100 avenues) stations on each side. There isn't BIG demand for a streetcar system in Edmonton - of course never will there be a 100% sold. The downtown is just our core, our hub, so there should be lots of lines there. Keep in mind these lines would act just as a regular car lane just it's one lane (going one direction, you'll notice each section is a loop going the other direction, similar to portland) just with tracks and a streetcar being able to use it. sort of like a bus, but cooler. cars can go right behind the streetcar, right in front, it has to stop at red lights, abide by car laws ,etc.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2009, 3:12 AM
metroXpress's Avatar
metroXpress metroXpress is offline
(||||||-||||-||||||)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 2,220
^ Thanks for the clarification. I see that there isn't a high demand for it. Do you think that they should be free? (like the ones in Tacoma) Sounds like a buzy downtown core to me. Are 102 and 100 ave wide streets? How many car lanes do they have currently. (don't include the parking lane if there is one.)??


Quote:
cars can go right behind the streetcar, right in front, it has to stop at red lights, abide by car laws ,etc.
That reminds me of the Blue Line in LA's Metro (LRT). That's rapid transit and it has to stop!
__________________
"Think simple…reduce the whole
of its parts into the simplest terms,
Getting back to first principles"


~ FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:13 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.