[Dartmouth] King's Wharf (Building E) | 85 m | 27 fl | U/C

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by sdm

Salters street will be on hold, which is been the custom for the site many times as the economics aren't there for 2,500 plus a month rentals.

Are you referring to Centennial Development's property just north of Bishops Landing?

[someone123]

There are other projects as well, e.g. brewery tower, South Park, maybe Herald lands.

Absorption for apartments and condos downtown is in the range of a couple hundred a year for average priced units. That is basically one project like United Gulf or two smaller ones like what is proposed for the Trinity site. Of course, many projects take more than one year to go from pre-sales to being fully complete.

I think it's very unlikely to see construction spontaneously start on everything at once, but I hope we do see a couple of major projects start up this spring. Keep in mind the fact that there is also office demand downtown. I'm guessing we will see one or two decent office projects soon.

Would the Centennial rental units really be that expensive or would that just be the higher end ones? In the Paramount there were also some $2,500+ apartments.

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by sdm

Twisted sisters will be at best 2010 before anything starts, if it starts at all. It will likely be sold.

Salters street will be on hold, which is been the custom for the site many times as the economics aren't there for 2,500 plus a month rentals.

Hotels at 60% occupancy don't work, and if we continue to increase the inventory it will see many hotels fail.

Kings Wharf is 2 years away at best.

Im going to be slightly more optimistic.

No I don't believe there is the market or economic activity right now to support all of these projects starting this year, but Im thinking that atleast 1 or 2 of them will start in the Fall. Im going to put my bets on those being Kings Wharf, and the 19 story tower on the trinity lands. Just a hunch I guess.

As for salters gate, I would expect that to follow within the next 2 years, and UG probably will start shortly after that.

[phrenic]

One thing to consider about potential condo sales for the UG project in particular is the amount of media attention it has received since it was first proposed. It's story has even been featured in the Globe and Mail at least once.

Everyone, and I mean everyone knows what it is and where it will be built which may impact sales to some extent.

I'm not trying to imply that it will be Halifax's equivalent to 1 Bloor East or anything, but it is a pretty high profile project for this area.

But anyway this is getting off the topic of King's Wharf.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by phrenic

One thing to consider about potential condo sales for the UG project in particular is the amount of media attention it has received since it was first proposed. It's story has even been featured in the Globe and Mail at least once.

I agree. It is the kind of project that might even appeal to buyers outside the city. The same thing goes for the Centennial Group development since it is right along the waterfront.

[phrenic]

Ironically, the fact that the Heritage Trust kept it tied up for so long (thus giving it more media attention than usual) may end up leading to quicker sales.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

Are you referring to Centennial Development's property just north of Bishops Landing?

Is this true?

[hfx_chris]

This whole viewplane from Brightwood thing seems like a non-issue to me. Just looking at a map, it looks like the only real view that this may block is the lovely view of Woodside and the refinery.

Interestingly, the heritage folks were all up in arms about the Twisted Sisters blocking viewplanes as well... and what did we determine the Twisted Sisters would block? The view of the refinery.

What is it with these people and looking at the refinery?

[someone123]

The refinery itself is actually somewhat historic. It's been there since 1918.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

This whole viewplane from Brightwood thing seems like a non-issue to me. Just looking at a map, it looks like the only real view that this may block is the lovely view of Woodside and the refinery.

Interestingly, the heritage folks were all up in arms about the Twisted Sisters blocking viewplanes as well... and what did we determine the Twisted Sisters would block? The view of the refinery.

What is it with these people and looking at the refinery?

I can't believe there is actually something protecting the view from Brightwood. That view is the one from the 7th tee and having seen it numerous times it is a nice view, not just of the refinery but also of the mouth of the harbor. But let's be realistic: it is one building we are discussing here that will not impair the view to any extent; and that view is enjoyed by a very small number of people, the 500 or so playing members of Brightwood, who are likely to move the club anyway if they can do a deal. It is similar to denying a development because the neighbors in another building will lose their view. Simply absurd.

[Spitfire75]

Waterfront proposal would be ‘huge’ boost

By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Tue. Jun 17 - 5:39 AM

The former Dartmouth marine slips could become "Bishop’s Landing on steroids" if its proposed redevelopment is approved, says a regional councillor.

Coun. Andrew Younger (East Dartmouth-The Lakes) said he compares King’s Wharf 30-acre project to Southwest Properties’ awarding-winning development on the Halifax side of the harbour because of its size and design.

"It has the trail on the water side, and then the development, and it’s huge," he said Monday.

The proposal, from developer Fares Real Estate, includes 12 new buildings like a cruise ship docking facility, condominiums, townhouses, a 200-room hotel, 160,000 square feet of office space and 70,000 square feet of ground-level retail space.

Since it was proposed at a public information meeting back in 2006, the developer has had to overcome obstacles like providing two access roads into the development and dealing with view plane issues from Brightwood Golf Club and the Dartmouth Common.

"Some of the delay is because of those kinds of issues," Mr. Younger said.
Before the development can proceed, regional council must approve the zoning change from marine-industrial and then schedule a public hearing during the summer.

The executive director of the Downtown Dartmouth Business Commission is hopeful it will be given the go-ahead.

"It’s probably the most important project that we’ve seen here in 50 years," Tim Olive said Monday.

The $300-million project would include 1,292 residential units, which would bring about 2,500 people into the area, he said.

"It will probably be the best living accommodations on the harbour, bar none, . . . and just having all those people in our downtown, which is slowly coming back and being revitalized, will be a boost to the businesses."

"(Its effect) is almost incalculable because there will be so many people living within two blocks of a shopping district is something that business communities can only dream about."

Other benefits to the area are important, too, said Coun. Gloria McCluskey (Dartmouth Centre).

That’s because the area used to be home to the former Irving shipyard property, she said Monday.

"I know a lot of people are anxious to see that place developed and get rid of those ugly old shipyard buildings."

"It certainly would be something for downtown Dartmouth, let me tell you," she said.
( apugsley@herald.ca)

I really hope this one gets the go ahead. Dartmouth needs it!

[Dmajackson]

What is up with this viewplane from Brightwood? This viewplane should not exist because:

1) That is a private golf-course that you have to pay a private company to gain access to see this view, Viewplanes should be left to public areas accessible with no cost,

2) Brightwood is not a protected heritage site known for its historic veiws,

3) Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't/wasn't Brightwood closing down? I thought they were planning to move out to the suburbs?

[Spitfire75]

Yeah I don't understand that either. I'm against viewplanes anywhere in the city. I have yet to see a situation where they make sense.

[hfx_chris]

The one and only view plane I agree with, is the view of Georges Island from the Citadel. That's the only one. I was on Georges Island this weekend past, and I honestly have to admit while standing there looking at the Citadel, I felt something unusual. A kind of connection. Those two forts have a connection, a visual and historical connection that should be preserved.
Christ, I sound like a heritage nut...but unlike the heritage nuts, while gazing upon the Citadel I enjoyed the contrast between history (the Citadel) and the modern tall buildings. It was nice to see!

[terrynorthend]

Is there an actual legislated viewplane from Brightwood or the Dartmouth Common?

I was under the impression that in this case it was just the opponents' choice of words; their contention that its too high and will block various views from Dartmouth. "Viewplane" is a loaded word in the politics of HRM, so it makes sense that they would use that term to muddy the issue, attempting to confuse the public into believing that there is hard legislation that would contraindicate this proposal.

[Aya_Akai]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

Is there an actual legislated viewplane from Brightwood or the Dartmouth Common?

I think it is the opponents choice of words, I don't think there is any actual "viewplane" to speak of, however just the view.

As far as I know I don't think Dartmouth has any real "viewplanes" so I don't see why the issue should really be brought up with this project. I really want to see this happen, it will really help Dartmouth, I guess in plain terms, it'll help Dartmouth suck a lot less

Here's to hoping it goes

(Hell, if McCluskey likes the idea, that means its good for everyone )

[Jonovision]

This would be the best thing to ever happen in Dartmouth. For once the most sought after homes would be on this side of the harbour. I thought there was actual viewplane legislation for Brightwood. Even though it makes little sense. I'm almost positive these plans do not interfere either. Fares has been really good about it all too. I'm sure I mentioned this before, but there was a concerned resident on the hill just down from Brightwood. He wanted to know how his view would be affected so Fares came in and took some pictures from his window, then did up a rendering showing the new perspective the resident would have. That is not something most developers would do.

[Canopus]

Forget 50 this would be the best thing to happen to Dartmouth in at least 100 years and be a fantastic thing for the city as a whole.

And people are seriously considering making the view from the tee of a private golf course an issue here?!?!?

Gad, why is it that so often the far left position seems to be a thorn in the side of development proposals yet now, when faced with what one would think would be considered blocking a good project to placate a few local golfers, they are not up in arms?

[worldlyhaligonian]

It might be the greatest thing to happen to Dartmouth ever... lol.

But seriously, this whole "viewplane" talk is rediculous, I think a product of the media and those who do not want ANY development. Is this some kind of fallacy of the development's opponents?

Citadel Hill is one thing, and I respect that, but thwarting developing based on b/s will ultimately just make Halifax more uncompetitive.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I find a great irony in this whole leftist group... the poverty that exists in the Maritimes is generally due to structural causes, namely the decline of specific industries. Many of the people thwarting development are anti-poverty.

Thus, a paradox... the economy and people's general financial welfare will not miracuously change without development. And then we have those in office who are completely clueless, who want to change developer's plans at their uneducated personal whims. Its a fucking joke.

Peter Kelly, where is your eMBA at?

I think Fougere could do a good job though, she's a family friend. I would like to inform her of this forum, so she could get a glimpse of those who are proud of Halifax and want to be even more proud.

What does everybody think of this idea?

I think this forum has produced excellent discussion that seeks the truth in our urban planning community. We need to dispell alot of these myths out there (i.e. 4 stories max, etc)