LAS VEGAS | Boom Project Rundown! 2.0

[MrV]

Is it a possibility that MGM first develops the newly bought site and the Circus Circus motel and trailer park (78 acres should be more then enough) and then renovates Circus Circus into a casino that still caters to the mid-end gamblers and tourists, possibly turn it into a non-themed hotel (or less strongly themed), in order to make it look more in place with the rest of the buildings instead of the somewhat cheesy circus theme? Or should mid-end casino's on the strip considered to be something of the past and will they turn it into (another) high-end place?

Now that properties on the north-end of the strip are getting more and more valuable, it amazes me that there aren't any noteworthy hotels/buildings/developments (correct me if I'm wrong) between Wynn and The Riviera. Wouldn't the owners of these properties be much better of (financially) if they sold there (compared with other strip properties) small businesses and pieces of land to a developer?

[mdiederi]

Originally Posted by MrV

Now that properties on the north-end of the strip are getting more and more valuable, it amazes me that there aren't any noteworthy hotels/buildings/developments (correct me if I'm wrong) between Wynn and The Riviera. Wouldn't the owners of these properties be much better of (financially) if they sold there (compared with other strip properties) small businesses and pieces of land to a developer?

Yeah, that's where the Conrad-Majestic-Waldorf Astoria thing is supposed to go.



The Riviera and the Frontier are the only two significant properties left that are up for sale on the Strip.

[MrV]

Originally Posted by mdiederi

Yeah, that's where the Conrad-Majestic-Waldorf Astoria thing is supposed to go.

Thanks!
According to Vegas today and Tomorrow, construction is set to begin this month. Is that still going to happen (or has it already happened?), or has the project been put on hold again?

[lfc4life]

The Conrad was announced more than 3 years and nothing so far has happened. I am interested though to see that Mark over at VT&T has groundbreaking scheduled for April 2007, so maybe??

It looks a beautiful project and would complement the Wynn so well imo but the further down the line we go the less and less likely it seems this wonderful project will happen

[BrianFey]

Originally Posted by mdiederi

Yeah, that's where the Conrad-Majestic-Waldorf Astoria thing is supposed to go.



The Riviera and the Frontier are the only two significant properties left that are up for sale on the Strip.

MR.V

I agree with you. W-A is slated to go here, IF it happens. But I was just looking at the satallite image on Google Maps yesterday, and you are right. I was thinking that exact thing. The W-A project, even if it happens, only takes a very small part of that land, and its way north of Encore. There is still a fantastic property full of crap, just north of Encore that now has a few small buildings, etc. That would be perfect, being across from Echelon Place.

[drobar]

Let's not fool ourselves people. Circus Circus is a joke. If MGM is serious about developing that portion of town, they should erect resorts/buildings that reflect the emerging environment, i.e Sky, Trump, ect... There is no aesthetic/cultural value whatsoever to the Circus Circus in it's present condition. Just the whole concept of "Circus Circus" is atrocious. If they are going to keep Circus Circus, they really need to plan something visually appealing and less garish. Hmmm.....maybe "Cirque Cirque"?

Originally Posted by lfc4life

I hope Circus stays the way it is, enhance it yes, but don't knock it down. MGM are not stupid. Circus pulls in the budget traveller by the truckload and without it and Excalibur that market would be lost for them. At the moment MGM seem to have every aspect of the market covered, high-end, mid-high end as well as the mid and lower ends of the market. perhaps they should buy the Western on Fremont, then they really can say they have everything covered full stop

Circus also seems to have cleaned itself up a bit compared to when I was there last in June 2005. It actually looked ok and on the clean side when i visited there in February this year.

If MGM are serious about building on that vacant site then that is further fantastic news for the north strip. Personally I hope Sky is the last of the independent condos built directly on the Strip. There is plenty of place for independent condos on paradise, industrial, sahara etc. The strip should be left for the hotels/casinos. Condos on the strip should be part of hotel projects like city center or echelon etc. just my two cents

[lfc4life]

drobar; Circus is a total money maker and has been since its inception. There are thousands of people who would disagree with your statement; tacky CC may be, but it still brings in the money by the bucketload. get rid of CC or radically alter it beyond recognition and you lose a huge chuck of the market.

Vegas can only absorb so many high-calibre five star resorts imo, eventually there will be too many. there is no way Vegas can fill 140,000 five stars bedrooms every night assuming all the upcoming hotels are five stars. There needs to budget hotels on the Strip to complement the five stars mega resorts.

[mdiederi]

They still have another Circus Circus in Reno where all the penny slot players can go.

[justdefended]

Originally Posted by lfc4life

drobar; Circus is a total money maker and has been since its inception. There are thousands of people who would disagree with your statement; tacky CC may be, but it still brings in the money by the bucketload. get rid of CC or radically alter it beyond recognition and you lose a huge chuck of the market.

Vegas can only absorb so many high-calibre five star resorts imo, eventually there will be too many. there is no way Vegas can fill 140,000 five stars bedrooms every night assuming all the upcoming hotels are five stars. There needs to budget hotels on the Strip to complement the five stars mega resorts.

It's true. As old as Circus Circus is it generates steady cash flow from patrons that would play elsewhere if it weren't around. They just need to update the property to current standards. Just because it caters to a lower income doesn't mean it has to look that way. South Point is a great example. Nice looking hotel but local prices and wagering on everything.

Althought at the same time, I wouldn't mind watching that neon clown get blown up.

[VegasMatt]

I’m not sure why some seem to think MGM cares if there is a pink monstrosity next to their
competitor’s luxury resort. MGM’s Gem is south strip. If I was MGM, I’d build a fifty foot clown
on Circus Circus to steer the higher cliental away from Echelon place towards CityCenter.
Circus Circus is MGM’s Walmart Brand and it’s making lots of money.
I wouldn’t wager money on a classy resort replacing too soon.

Besides, what fun would Vegas be if it lost all its tacky grandeur.


Side Note: The Clown’s giant pink ass would be facing Echelon’s luxury suites

[heyyoucharlie]

Originally Posted by lfc4life

drobar; Circus is a total money maker and has been since its inception. There are thousands of people who would disagree with your statement; tacky CC may be, but it still brings in the money by the bucketload. get rid of CC or radically alter it beyond recognition and you lose a huge chuck of the market.

Vegas can only absorb so many high-calibre five star resorts imo, eventually there will be too many. there is no way Vegas can fill 140,000 five stars bedrooms every night assuming all the upcoming hotels are five stars. There needs to budget hotels on the Strip to complement the five stars mega resorts.

I could not agree more... Circus Circus is hands down a cash cow!!! Walk through there at noon on a Wed...the place is packed

Where as the Sahara at the same time looks like a ghost town...

I really think all CC needs is just a good paint job.

[BruceH]

MGM with its new partners could very well take the CC fun to another level on North Strip. Just like in Dubai, consider having an indoor ski slope, a high end zoo, an indoor golf course, botanical gardens and a new Cirque show. It will appeal to a wide cross section of visitors both mid and upper tier. MGM will be challenged to leave CC with just a coat of new paint when surrounded by higher end properties. Even the McDonalds will now be given a luxury look. South Strip will become the more middle tier focus and North Strip will take on a higher level of tourist and resident IMHO.

[vegasrain84]

Originally Posted by heyyoucharlie

I really think all CC needs is just a good paint job.

I really think Circus Circus needs a good implosion job.. Cash cow or not.. It's a hideous Pink Nightmare! MGM should just cut its losses, build a non-themed resort rivaling CityCenter's size, but keep it affordable so that it still appeals to the middle income folks. For that matter, I think they should get rid of Excalibur, and Monte Carlo. Monte Carlo should go because it looks like a prison, and because it would allow for an expansion of CityCenter.. Excalibur because it looks like something out of disney world, only more tacky.. But first and foremost, that Pink Nightmare has got to go..

[kenratboy]

Just thinking out loud - we are talking about taking multiple properties and condensing/combining them into one massive complex. This allows for one destination to offer more amenities at a larger scale, reducing costs, opening opportunities, and making things better for the customer.

Do you think the future of Vegas will be these massive complexes (as in, NOT a 2000 room luxury resort, but something with 4, 6, 8, 10k rooms, lots of condos, vast shopping and entertainment venues (bigger than before), etc.)?

Its no secret that things have been getting bigger in Vegas, but recently, while a lot of these properties are large, they are not AS large as some of the stuff that came before. Are we seeing things jumping up to the next level of size?

[mdiederi]

Originally Posted by VegasMatt

If I was MGM, I’d build a fifty foot clown
on Circus Circus

The obnoxious neon clown out front is already 125 feet tall.

Circus Circus is a nickel and dime cow. Sure, MGM makes a profit off of Circus Circus, because they practically got if for free in the Mandalay Resorts deal. A handful of baccarat tables at Bellagio probably have higher revenue than Circus Circus's entire casino drop. I can't find exact figures on Circus Circus's revenue, anybody have the break down on MGM's properties? Seems MGM's nicer properties get two to three times higher average prices for rooms on normal nights than Circus Circus does on its busiest nights, do the math. Even though Circus Circus shows a profit, I think they are losing money compared to what they could do on that property.

I say build cheap stuff south of the airport and make the entire Strip high class.

Originally Posted by BruceH

MGM with its new partners could very well take the CC fun to another level on North Strip. Just like in Dubai, consider having an indoor ski slope, a high end zoo, an indoor golf course, botanical gardens and a new Cirque show.

Las Vegas Wet is already planning all that stuff on 200 acres with several themed "Lands", even indoor snow skiing, SOUTH of the airport on Las Vegas Blvd. The cheap places on the Strip won't be able to compete with some of the theme park stuff that is going to be built to the south. I really think McCarran airport will be the dividing line in the future for Vegas's high budget and low budget visitors. Station Casinos also owns a big chunk of land just south of South Point.

I also heard that the county is seriously considering accelerating development of the Ivanpah airport because McCarran is maxing out much faster than expected. They're almost half way through the Environmental Impact Study already. And of course they are talking of some sort of public transport rail system from Ivanpah International, which will stop at major resorts, obviously hitting the ones south of McCarran first. Las Vegas Blvd already extends all the way to Jean. Also, MGM is developing a major subdivision in Jean.

[heyyoucharlie]

Going South on I-15 from about St Rose (about the end of town) how far is it to Ivanpah???

[mdiederi]

From the intersection of Saint Rose Parkway and I-15 it is 14.5 miles to Jean, and from Jean to Primm is 12.7 miles. Ivanpah is the name of the valley south of Jean.

[MrV]

Originally Posted by BrianFey

MR.V

There is still a fantastic property full of crap, just north of Encore that now has a few small buildings, etc. That would be perfect, being across from Echelon Place.

Maybe Wynn can buy these properties in the future for further expansions (after he is done with his golf course redevelopment), since he recently bought some land east of those properties (across the desert inn arterial from his golf course).

I like the idea of expanding Circus Circus with things like an indoor ski slope etc. but I also doubt whether the strip is the right location for such attractions. How is the current adventure dome doing?

[BrianFey]

I would love to see Wynn buy that, and develop more strip frontage, and save the golf course for later, but I don't think that will happen. I am not sure what land you are refering too that Wynn recently purchased. According to LVT&T they did purchase 2 new properties, one north of his main parcel, and another being the Chamber of Commerce site. But not when you look on the Wynn map on their site, they no longer show the property to the north, across Desert Inn, so I think that was reported in error. I do think they are at least thinking about their next step though, and I know they are always looking for new land that makes sense for them to own.

As for the CC Adventure dome, I have no idea how its doing. I only know that if you look at the overall property as a whole, its the only thing I can even possibly see them keeping that is worth anything at all, would be that Adventuredome. In the end if MGM keeps CC, I will strongly question the intelligence of the members on their board! I fully agree the Strip does not need more 5 Star properties, but you can rebuild a nice, new, clean, hotel and keep the cost down.

[Vtown420]

I haven’t been to Circus Circus since I was a teenager, but I think anything that hideous should be imploded. There is no reason they can’t build a resort for the middle class that looks good.

I was thinking the exact same thing about moving all the tacky, kiddie stuff off the strip, making most of the resorts high class. But we need to keep a few cheapo casinos like Slots-A-Fun, O'Sheas, and Casino Royale in between the mega resorts. They have cheap drinks (1$ shots), better odds, and are always packed. Plus you don’t have to walk a mile through a maze to get what you are looking for (which I absolutely hate). Some times it’s better to keep it simple. If we lose these places we lose what made Vegas great. Does anyone know what will happen to Slots-A-Fun?

I also think the church next to Encore should be kept as it is. The sinners need somewhere to go repent.

I am so excited with MGM’s latest acquisition! I always knew Sahara and LV Blvd. was destined for greatness.