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  #141  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2011, 8:21 PM
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CorbeauNoir CorbeauNoir is offline
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
He's really grasping at straws.

Even if we assume the view is important, it's not clear that it will be blocked much. Usually when Pacey says "obstructed" he means that some particular part of the view is blocked from some particular location.
Whenever StV starts chirping I imagine Calgary militantly enforcing a stipulation that skyscrapers be below a certain height to preserve the views from the Calgary Tower.

Then I take a look at the Bow and laugh uncontrollably.
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  #142  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2011, 11:21 PM
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I always thought that people went to the Citadel to see the view of the oil refinery...

It never ceases to amaze me how the media always present Pacey's totally bogus anti-development arguments as somehow credible. Just once I wish a reporter would challenge him.
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  #143  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2011, 12:45 AM
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Okay anyone know the DHSMPS well enough to comment?

My understand is you cannot get around the height restrictions unless you are bonused by some kind of public good, exactly like the YMCA.

So the max bonus height on map 5 is 75 feet for the CBC property but 215 feet for the YMCA property.

So what are they asking for? To allow a bit of the bonusing to smoosh over onto the 75 foot lot?

Interesting test of HRMbD and the SMPS.
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  #144  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2011, 1:33 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Regardless of the MPS, amendments can always be made to any policy. So they could apply to be exempt from provisions of the policy or all of it. But the chances of that being approved would be slim. I'll have a look at the MPS later tonight. Btw, there aren't any real policies about height related to the Calgary tower out here. It's mainly about the view corridor up Centre Street.

Btw, I've not been able to find the 'Save the view' facebook group. I was on it (for laughs) but now I can't seem to find it on facebook anywhere and the link from their website doesn't seem to work. Anyone notice if its gone or not?
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  #145  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2011, 4:47 PM
Northend Guy Northend Guy is offline
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I have no problem with the proposal, but let's be accurate with the facts.

"One of the finest surviving examples of Victorian Gardens in North America, the Halifax Public Gardens began on Common land by the Nova Scotia Horticultural Society in 1836. ... The Halifax Public Gardens were recognized as a National Historic Site in 1984. It is a valuable resource in the study of heritage plants and landscape design. As well, it houses a public collection of garden artefacts such as statues, a bandstand and fountains, which are representative of the Victorian era." just sayin'
Point taken - now I know. I still think that the historical correlation between the gardens and the citadel is a stretch.
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  #146  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2011, 9:15 PM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
Regardless of the MPS, amendments can always be made to any policy. So they could apply to be exempt from provisions of the policy or all of it. But the chances of that being approved would be slim. I'll have a look at the MPS later tonight. Btw, there aren't any real policies about height related to the Calgary tower out here. It's mainly about the view corridor up Centre Street.

Btw, I've not been able to find the 'Save the view' facebook group. I was on it (for laughs) but now I can't seem to find it on facebook anywhere and the link from their website doesn't seem to work. Anyone notice if its gone or not?
I think you can see the arguement will come down to the fact that Council allowed double the height for Nova Centre. The basis of the allowance was of its "public "benefit. Therefore one could easily argue that since this was allowed in that "private" development, even though there is public money being put in, that the same consideration should apply to this "private" development.
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  #147  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2011, 9:28 PM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
Btw, I've not been able to find the 'Save the view' facebook group. I was on it (for laughs) but now I can't seem to find it on facebook anywhere and the link from their website doesn't seem to work. Anyone notice if its gone or not?
its still there....you just have to join the group to see the wall now because before i was reading the comments being made and now i cant. they are getting tricky! lol
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  #148  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2011, 9:40 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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I think you can see the arguement will come down to the fact that Council allowed double the height for Nova Centre. The basis of the allowance was of its "public "benefit. Therefore one could easily argue that since this was allowed in that "private" development, even though there is public money being put in, that the same consideration should apply to this "private" development.
This isn't really accurate. The convention centre allowances were written into the HRM by Design document. So the HRM council didn't have to allow it as a "public benefit", it was already allowed. As such, it was no more an exception to the HRM by Design bylaws than are the higher height limits allowed at the Cogswell area. I think you should stop thinking of the HRM by Design bylaws as being scripture passed down from generation to generation. It was recently written by people who decided what heights would be allowed where. The proposed height of the convention centre was allowed at that location.

Based on your statements, it is just as accurate to state that all the severe height restrictions written into the HRM by Design are the exception to the previous bylaws based on viewplanes bylaws. However, even the viewplanes bylaws were artificially created in the 1970's.

Maybe it is time to review the HRM by Design bylaws to allow increased height so as to make downtown development more economically feasible.
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  #149  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2011, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
This isn't really accurate. The convention centre allowances were written into the HRM by Design document. So the HRM council didn't have to allow it as a "public benefit", it was already allowed. As such, it was no more an exception to the HRM by Design bylaws than are the higher height limits allowed at the Cogswell area. I think you should stop thinking of the HRM by Design bylaws as being scripture passed down from generation to generation. It was recently written by people who decided what heights would be allowed where. The proposed height of the convention centre was allowed at that location.

Based on your statements, it is just as accurate to state that all the severe height restrictions written into the HRM by Design are the exception to the previous bylaws based on viewplanes bylaws. However, even the viewplanes bylaws were artificially created in the 1970's.

Maybe it is time to review the HRM by Design bylaws to allow increased height so as to make downtown development more economically feasible.
The Convention Centre was grandfathered because it was proposed before HRMxD was passed. So the MPS and LUB that applied to the site before still applies. In a way it's a dogs breakfast because it is governed under the pre HRMxD guidelines but is not accountable to a public hearing.
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  #150  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2011, 1:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Empire View Post
The Convention Centre was grandfathered because it was proposed before HRMxD was passed. So the MPS and LUB that applied to the site before still applies. In a way it's a dogs breakfast because it is governed under the pre HRMxD guidelines but is not accountable to a public hearing.
Why is that? The new DSPS came after and under HRMbD. Wouldn't it supersede the old MPS?
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  #151  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2011, 2:54 AM
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its still there....you just have to join the group to see the wall now because before i was reading the comments being made and now i cant. they are getting tricky! lol
Ah that settles it. They kicked me off the board because I kept calling them out for their hyprocracy. Especially when they started posting stuff about the stadium. Myself and a couple others posted stuff saying - hey, isn't this group just about the hill, what does this have to do with stuff?

I think that says it all...
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  #152  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2011, 2:29 AM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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I noticed that this had not been posted. I think this is a great development because it fills the gap in terms of infrastructure and the need for residential downtown. The design is also very impressive and I like the connection into the lane behind. The article in the paper had a rendering.


Bending the height rule key to project — YMCA

By PATRICIA BROOKS ARENBURG Staff Reporter
Sat, Apr 16 - 4:54 AM
Raising the city’s height restrictions for part of its proposed South Park Street development is essential to its expansion, says the YMCA of Greater Halifax-Dartmouth.

"We haven’t asked for 10 per cent more knowing that the developer’s game is to get cut back. There are no games being played here," said George Rodger, YMCA project manager.

The charitable organization has asked the city for amendments to allow it to redevelop its South Park Street site along with the CBC Radio building to create an expanded $22-million YMCA facility and two residential towers. A public information session about the project is scheduled for city hall on Thursday at 7 p.m.

The proposal features a 70,000-square-foot YMCA with an aquatic complex, indoor running track, childcare, outdoor garden and gym and fitness area. There is also 5,700 square feet of retail and office space along South Park Street, 300 parking spaces and a passageway between South Park and Annandale streets.

There is another 330,000 square feet for residential units, which the YMCA estimates would generate between $9 million and $10 million from a developer.

But the group needs to raise the roof to 46 metres for the project to go ahead. To do that, it will need city hall to raise the height restrictions at the base of Citadel Hill by double the current 23-metre limit for one corner of the current CBC property.

A staff report to council dated Feb. 14 says the city will need to make amendments to three city planning strategies and the Downtown Halifax Land Use bylaw to meet the request.

"If it were smaller, it won’t be a C2 recreation centre (such as the Dartmouth Sportsplex and the new Canada Games Centre) and it won’t meet the infrastructure deficit being faced by city staff and YMCA staff and private operators. We just won’t meet it with a smaller centre," Rodger said.

Michael Napier, whose firm designed the project, said "we know that some people will be opposed to it . . . but we’re hoping that the merits of this project get at least looked at because I think it would be a very important project for Halifax."

"We want to try and get as many people living and working downtown so we don’t have to do all this commuting and spreading out of services and things. I think we need a balance and hopefully this project will help to balance things out."

The multi-use community project has already sparked criticism from Parks Canada. Their position, outlined in a report, says the "current height restrictions around the Citadel are important and should be retained."

The group has met with Parks Canada, Rodger said, adding that he believes progress is being made. The YMCA has also said the project won’t block the view from Citadel Hill or block the sun from Public Gardens.

Last month, the city voted to allow city staff to formally review the proposed development. But council "has complete discretion to retain or to change its planning policies and its decision is not subject to an appeal," staff wrote.

Rodger said he hopes people will see the YMCA intends to do good. "We’re a really interesting developer because, guess what, we aren’t going to . . . leave here. We’re going to stay on the corner."

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1238708.html
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  #153  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2011, 4:35 AM
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This will actually improve the view from the Citadel substantially by covering up the ugly Paramount wall. Needless to say, the added residential is also a great asset. This part of the city is on the cusp of actually having some decent density.

My prediction is that it will have an easy time at council. It looks perfectly reasonable and obviously benefits the public.
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  #154  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2011, 4:58 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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This will actually improve the view from the Citadel substantially by covering up the ugly Paramount wall. Needless to say, the added residential is also a great asset. This part of the city is on the cusp of actually having some decent density.

My prediction is that it will have an easy time at council. It looks perfectly reasonable and obviously benefits the public.
I think you're right. This project is a winner, no matter how you look at it. The fact that the entrance will now be at the corner, the Paramount wall and ugly mechanical on the roof of the Lord Nelson will be hidden, and generally this is less of an eyesore than the current setup.

They can't use "but think of the children" line on this one... because its literally going to be helping children/families.

I wonder where the viewpoint of tall buildings being seen as anti-family comes from? I think these densities promote more family/community oriented areas.
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  #155  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2011, 2:55 AM
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I really like the look of this project and also like by what I see in the renderings how they intend to maintain the look/shape of the CBC building on that corner, I have always liked that building on that corner. Is the plan to build on the existing building or just build similar base to what already exists?
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  #156  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2011, 3:02 AM
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Pretty sure the plan is to demolish and rebuild.
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  #157  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2011, 3:24 AM
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Pretty sure the plan is to demolish and rebuild.
Either way looks great in the renders, hope it happens and they keep that style on that corner.
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  #158  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2011, 5:20 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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I don't know if this will just sail through council; I suspect that it might have a bit of a tough ride, but it will pass. I think the idea of Parks Canada saying this will be bad for the hill - I can't think of many people looking on this side of the hill compared to the harbour side? I know I've sat on the railing or in the grass and read for a few hours when I was younger on a sunny day, but still...given the context, I think council would be hard pressed to say no. But despite that, I can guess at least two that will still say no...
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  #159  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2011, 12:50 PM
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There is a public information meeting this Thursday at 7pm at City Hall on this project.
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  #160  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2011, 10:33 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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There is a public information meeting this Thursday at 7pm at City Hall on this project.
Awesome; I will actually be home for it!
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