[Halifax] Pavilion (YMCA) and Curve | 2X49 m | 17 & 15 fl | Completed

[alps]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I had no idea the entire building was a dealership -- cars on the roof, wild, I wonder how they converted it and what the interior layout is like today.

[Keith P.]

I don't remember it myself, but I remember being told that the CBC building used to be Scotia Chev-Olds back then. They eventually moved to the location on Robie St where O'regans is now (O'regans purchased Scotia, which was run by a guy named Hector Porter, in the 1980s). The Robie St site was originally the Trainor GMC truck dealership in the 1960s.

The south end used to have a few car dealerships. Citadel Motors was a Pontiac/Buick dealer that was on the corner of Sackville and Brunswick where the Cambridge Suites hotel is located. Wood Motors Ford used to be on South St in the area of Fenwick, the James apartments and WCB building.

[halifaxboyns]

Personally, I don't really see a point of having any car dealerships still in the downtown - so the one on Robie (for me) has to go. But I don't have a problem with them being around Kempt Road. That area (I've nick-named it car dealer 'row') has developed mainly as an auto-oriented corridor, the same with the Superstore and adjacent strip malls. That being said - the strip malls have the ability to convert to something more pedestrian oriented facing Young - I think Kempt should remain as is.

I'm looking forward to seeing the full rendering with windows and materials so we can have a chance to really see how it would look with all features. I'm remaining positive on this - I think the main form holds promise.

[JustinMacD]

Imagine if the city put as much time and energy towards a project like this instead of wasting money on a 4 pad military bunker (I mean ice rink).

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by JustinMacD

Imagine if the city put as much time and energy towards a project like this instead of wasting money on a 4 pad military bunker (I mean ice rink).

Well a growing city needs all types of facilities, including rinks. I mean, Calgary is 1.2 million and ice rink time is a huge issue out here.

But I hope that they really give this a good review and support it.

[someone123]

Saying that any city "needs" a publicly-funded quadruple ice rink is a bit of a stretch. It may or may not be worth funding but let's not kid ourselves -- it is a different kind of spending from housing, schools, hospitals, etc.

Are they asking for any HRM money for this proposal? I wonder how many people would use the new YMCA? It seems like a facility that appeals to a much wider range of people than an ice rink. That was one of my issues with athletics back when I was in school. They seemed very competitive and targeted toward certain kids. Sports like hockey are also not cheap when it comes to equipment and facilities, whereas soccer or basketball are cheap while being equally good physical activity. These sports also probably aren't as rare compared to hockey as the disparity in public funding would suggest.

[Dmajackson]

http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...0308ca1111.pdf

This is a report going forward to Council on Tuesday. I have'nt read it through but it is simply asking for a major ammendment to the height limit on Sackville Street for the CBC site.

Suppoedly the proposed towers are twice the height of the current restrictions (CBC site only)

[halifaxboyns]

A well written report and expresses the policy which they are asking for exemption through quite well. I see no issues, there will be some who vote against it but it will be given the go ahead.

[someone123]

It is a very deep lot with room for setbacks. The open space to the north and west of this site is also very large, so the mass of this development is not going to overwhelm the space. It is perfectly reasonable and very needed from a density point of view. The aerial renderings in the PDF look great. In particular the "Bell Street View" shows how impressive the area will be with if this is built.

The 23 m height limit was never very realistic and highlights one of the weaknesses of HbD -- as far as I know, nobody at the YMCA was at the table when the planning process was happening. Developers can't necessarily know what land they might own in the future or what might be economical to develop. Future residents and businesses who benefit from abundant housing and commercial space have no say at all. Meanwhile, current residents argue for every site to have strict limits and then cry foul later on when their rules are changed.

If it were up to me I would allow development along the Citadel side of Sackville Street and Bell Road. It might also be possible to put parking *inside* the Citadel and then have elevators up to the surface for visitors. Some more suitable public amenities could be added inside the fortification where currently it is just parking.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

It might also be possible to put parking *inside* the Citadel and then have elevators up to the surface for visitors.

Former City of Halifax mayor Ron Wallace once suggested building parking under Citadel Hill to alleviate the downtown's parking woes. He was widely ridiculed but I always thought it was an excellent idea. Downtown Halifax is in someways held prisoner by Citadel Hill in that it takes up a huge amount of space in a highly desirable area, limits development and generally is an unproductive use of some very valuable land.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Former City of Halifax mayor Ron Wallace once suggested building parking under Citadel Hill to alleviate the downtown's parking woes. He was widely ridiculed but I always thought it was an excellent idea. Downtown Halifax is in someways held prisoner by Citadel Hill in that it takes up a huge amount of space in a highly desirable area, limits development and generally is an unproductive use of some very valuable land.

You might as well put all kinds of things in Citadel Hill if you're going to the trouble of putting parking in there. It could merely be infrastructure (electrical sub-stations, lift stations, that sort of thing), or you could go ahead and give it some more human uses as well (can you say sub-terranean Metro Centre replacement... )

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Former City of Halifax mayor Ron Wallace once suggested building parking under Citadel Hill to alleviate the downtown's parking woes. He was widely ridiculed but I always thought it was an excellent idea. Downtown Halifax is in someways held prisoner by Citadel Hill in that it takes up a huge amount of space in a highly desirable area, limits development and generally is an unproductive use of some very valuable land.

I think its a good idea. I know in Boston they have a large underground parking garage underneath the Boston Commons.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Here we go! Heritage trust is on this one! (see CBC from tonight)

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Here we go! Heritage trust is on this one! (see CBC from tonight)

For those who missed it, everybody's pal Phil Pacey was on CBC News tonight complaining about the height (what a shock) of this proposal. I found it interesting how the CBC made it sound like it was a big, bad, TOO TALL tower, while when they showed the renderings it was no taller (I think lower actually) than the other buildings on that block. Of course Pacey was grousing about how awful it was for someone to be going in front of council asking for an exemption from HRM by Design "before the ink was dry". I would suggest that if the height limit was set so low, then HRM by Design is seriously flawed.

The renderings and models they showed looked really good. It would be tragic if this did not proceed.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

For those who missed it, everybody's pal Phil Pacey was on CBC News tonight complaining about the height (what a shock) of this proposal. I found it interesting how the CBC made it sound like it was a big, bad, TOO TALL tower, while when they showed the renderings it was no taller (I think lower actually) than the other buildings on that block. Of course Pacey was grousing about how awful it was for someone to be going in front of council asking for an exemption from HRM by Design "before the ink was dry". I would suggest that if the height limit was set so low, then HRM by Design is seriously flawed.

The renderings and models they showed looked really good. It would be tragic if this did not proceed.

I think HRM by design does have that flaw in that height is too surpressed. It has driven any sort of reasonable economics out of certain real estate developments opportunities.

There is nothing wrong with this proposal.

[Northend Guy]

From news957.com

Battle brewing over YMCA building height
Doug Cogswell Mar 08, 2011 06:06:29 AM
0
Another battle over development may be brewing in downtown Halifax.

The CBC and the YMCA will ask regional council on Tuesday to amend several planning strategies to allow a 46 metre tall building on the old CBC Radio site.

A new residential-commercial complex housing a new YMCA is planned for the site at the corner of Bell Road and Sackville Street, but the height limit is currently set at 23 metres.

The Nova Scotia Heritage Trust says that would obstruct viewplanes between Citadel Hill and the Public Gardens.

Trust president, Phil Pacey tells Metro News it's important to maintain that connection between two national historic sites.

Nauseating. What 2 national historic sites? They have to be talking about PPP. Last time I checked the Gardens are not national or historic. I really hope this project isn't scuttled because of this. It really is a shame that developers have to jump thru so many hoops with no real assurances that they have a good chance of success, even if they have a really great design that fits with the area. Too many antidevelopment groups have a foothold around here.
I think we should build them a monument, and let them be relegated to Halifax's history as well! Maybe a spot on George's island would be nice.

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Former City of Halifax mayor Ron Wallace once suggested building parking under Citadel Hill to alleviate the downtown's parking woes. He was widely ridiculed but I always thought it was an excellent idea. Downtown Halifax is in someways held prisoner by Citadel Hill in that it takes up a huge amount of space in a highly desirable area, limits development and generally is an unproductive use of some very valuable land.

I've always liked this idea too, but I'm not too sure how feasible it is from a geological standpoint. I believe that the hill is composed of a glacial till deposit and might not provide a very solid foundation for the fortress if it is excavated extensively. Bad for the Fort, bad for the people in the parkade/underground development. I could be entirely wrong though in the absence of a geologic engineering survey.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Northend Guy

From news957.com

Nauseating. What 2 national historic sites? They have to be talking about PPP. Last time I checked the Gardens are not national or historic. I really hope this project isn't scuttled because of this.

I have no problem with the proposal, but let's be accurate with the facts.

"One of the finest surviving examples of Victorian Gardens in North America, the Halifax Public Gardens began on Common land by the Nova Scotia Horticultural Society in 1836. ... The Halifax Public Gardens were recognized as a National Historic Site in 1984. It is a valuable resource in the study of heritage plants and landscape design. As well, it houses a public collection of garden artefacts such as statues, a bandstand and fountains, which are representative of the Victorian era." just sayin'

[-Harlington-]

Can you even see the gardens from citadel hill, i mean as nice as they are who looks at them from there in the first place even if you could see them

it would just look like a bunch of trees from above

[someone123]

He's really grasping at straws.

Even if we assume the view is important, it's not clear that it will be blocked much. Usually when Pacey says "obstructed" he means that some particular part of the view is blocked from some particular location.