Texas On "Fast Track" To High Speed Rail

[N830MH]

When they will start construction from Dallas-Houston high-speed rail?

[Dale]

Originally Posted by N830MH

When they will start construction from Dallas-Houston high-speed rail?

I don't know. But they'll probably have a spur to Lubbock by the time California connects LA to SF.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Texas HSR will not directly serve any intermediate towns whereas California HSR will transform the state's Central Valley. By the 2030s, Fresno and Bakersfield will enjoy very fast and convenient rail service to downtown SF and LA, as well as San Jose and SFO.

There's not a whole lot between Dallas and Houston. Why even bother stopping in Podunk towns along the way? Although that Buc-ees in Madisonville is pretty impressive.

There's quite abit in between SF and LA especially through the CV.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Dale

As an aside: Musk is the man. I was gobsmacked when he did what NASA couldn't do in decades - land a rocket vertically. But he wasn't through. Oh, no! He figured out a way to land rocket boosters vertically!

McDonald-Douglass did it first in the early 1990s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzXcTFfV3Ls&t=85s

Nobody knew about it until Musk started claiming that he was the first.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by JManc

There's quite abit in between SF and LA especially through the CV.

Yes and the diversion to serve Palmdale added 30~ miles. Overall over 50+ miles of track were added to the LA>SF trip in order to serve Palmdale and the Central Valley cities. The stations will be in or very close to the downtowns.

Paralleling I-5 and building no stations between Burbank and Gilroy would have been faster and cheaper but would have left the Central Valley cities out in the arid wilderness they currently occupy.

[Dale]

With any luck, you'll be able to hop an HSR, in downtown SF, and go to the Garlic Festival, in Gilroy, by 2030.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by N830MH

When they will start construction from Dallas-Houston high-speed rail?

They can’t start construction until the EIS process has been completed. The DEIS was released at the beginning of this year, and FEIS should be out by the end of this year at best, sometime next year most likely. While Texas Central is funding the EIS, it’s the FRA and EPA running and controlling the process. After the EIS has been completed, construction can’t start until the design reaches 100%, the land has been purchased, construction permits have been issued, and construction bids have been won by the various contractors. Predicting when is like fortune telling, it’s all magic!

[drummer]

...so soon, yeah?

[DFW]

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/tran...ed-butterflies

[jtown,man]

There seems to have been a lot of movement with this project of late...anyone have concrete information?

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by Dale

I don't know. But they'll probably have a spur to Lubbock by the time California connects LA to SF.

Truthfully.

[M II A II R II K]

Texas Central chooses environmental partner to work along high-speed route

https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/...ental-partner/

.....

- Texas Central, the developers of the high-speed train line that will connect North Texas, the Brazos Valley and Houston, have named Resource Environmental Solutions (RES) as the project’s provider of ecological mitigation services to help protect and enhance natural ecosystems and the environment throughout construction and operations.

.....

[Will O' Wisp]

Not so great news coming out of the courtroom.

Opponents of Houston-Dallas bullet train trumpet ruling that company is not a railroad

The planned high-speed rail project from Houston to Dallas hit a big obstacle last week in rural Leon County when a judge there declared the project’s backers did not have authority to force landowners to sell or provide access to properties.

Opponents of the rail project on Monday cheered the ruling as a death knell for the line — albeit one that will take years to savor and finalize.

“This project cannot be finished without eminent domain and the project is completely off track,” said Blake Beckham, the Dallas lawyer who has represented opponents of the Texas Central Railway project.

Company officials said Monday many of the opponents’ claims and the significance of the ruling were exaggerated.

“Texas Central is appealing the Leon County judge’s decision and, meanwhile, it is moving forward on all aspects of the train project,” the company said in a statement.

The heart of many of the legal fights, and Monday’s decision, center on whether the company is, in fact, a railroad. Backers since 2014 have insisted the project — using Japanese bullet trains to connect Houston and Dallas via 90-minute trips as 220 mph — is a railroad and entitled to access to property to conduct surveys and acquire property via eminent domain.

“Texas has long allowed survey access by railroads like Texas Central, pipelines, electrical lines and other industries that provide for a public good and a strong economy,” the company said.

Opponents have insisted that since the company does not operate as a railroad, owns no trains and has not laid a single piece of track it is not eligible for the access.

“Simply self-declaring that you are a railroad … does not make it so,” said Kyle Workman, one of the founders of Texans Against High-Speed Rail.

Judge Deborah Evans of the 87th District Court agreed, issuing an order Friday that found Texas Central and another company it formed “are not a railroad or interurban electric company.”

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

There seems to have been a lot of movement with this project of late...anyone have concrete information?

It is never going to happen, and there probably is no market for it. The big four Texas Metros are all within easy driving distance of each other, and air service is also cheap and plentiful. None of these Texas cities can be described as walkable and public transportation is primitive. I would not want to be in any of those Texas cities without a car. If business was picking up my tab, I might consider flying (or train I guess) and then use Uber or a car rental at my destination. If it is my dime, I'll just drive. Stack all of that up against the construction costs and legal hurdles, and this thing never really leaves the drawing board.

[ardecila]

That's a dumb logic in that ruling. Is a new pipeline company "not a pipeline company" because they are not presently transporting oil via pipes? Somehow I doubt new pipelines are subject to the same legal hurdles in Texas.

That's a legal standard that, in addition to being total nonsense, likely violates Federal antitrust law.

[Will O' Wisp]

Originally Posted by ardecila

That's a dumb logic in that ruling. Is a new pipeline company "not a pipeline company" because they are not presently transporting oil via pipes? Somehow I doubt new pipelines are subject to the same legal hurdles in Texas.

That's a legal standard that, in addition to being total nonsense, likely violates Federal antitrust law.

Since this seems like such an insane verdict I've been trying to look up some of the reasoning behind it. As far as I can tell the issue seems to be Texas law as written is very specific about what corporations are legally considered railroads (with the associated eminent domain powers), and the dividing line is the operation of rail vehicles. The law makes no mentions of intending to operate rail vehicles in the future, and so by the very strict interpretation of the law Texas Central isn't a railroad.

The interaction of the various laws seem designed to prevent a bad actor buying up land though eminent domain using a proposed rail line they never truly intend to build. Requiring you to be actively running a railroad ensures you've already made some capital investment, and in the 19th century a new railroad was far more likely to start out running trains relatively short distances though mostly unclaimed land without need for eminent domain. This 21st century situation of a new entrant to the market needing to build hundreds of miles of rail for an IOS is simply something they never conceived of.

Another Texas judge in Harris County has ruled that Texas Central is indeed a railway, so there isn't a firm decision either way yet. But a ruling in Texas Central's favor would beg the question of what's preventing a real estate developer from using a new "railroad" to force landowners to sell their property for pennies on the dollar, then have it declare bankruptcy to acquire all that land for themselves.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp

Since this seems like such an insane verdict I've been trying to look up some of the reasoning behind it. As far as I can tell the issue seems to be Texas law as written is very specific about what corporations are legally considered railroads (with the associated eminent domain powers), and the dividing line is the operation of rail vehicles. The law makes no mentions of intending to operate rail vehicles in the future, and so by the very strict interpretation of the law Texas Central isn't a railroad.

The interaction of the various laws seem designed to prevent a bad actor buying up land though eminent domain using a proposed rail line they never truly intend to build. Requiring you to be actively running a railroad ensures you've already made some capital investment, and in the 19th century a new railroad was far more likely to start out running trains relatively short distances though mostly unclaimed land without need for eminent domain. This 21st century situation of a new entrant to the market needing to build hundreds of miles of rail for an IOS is simply something they never conceived of.

Another Texas judge in Harris County has ruled that Texas Central is indeed a railway, so there isn't a firm decision either way yet. But a ruling in Texas Central's favor would beg the question of what's preventing a real estate developer from using a new "railroad" to force landowners to sell their property for pennies on the dollar, then have it declare bankruptcy to acquire all that land for themselves.

The Texas law in question also places a date on it as well, and Texas Central falls behind that date. Judges in Texas are elected, political beasts. Rural district courts and urban district courts often rule differently, ultimately the lawusits reaching the State Supreme Court for a final ruling, where judges must run statewide and have to balance the rual -urban split.

Never-the-less, all Texas Central has to do is invest into a railroad that existed before that date to get around that specific law, there are plenty of short line railroads in Texas to choose from all desiring more investment. Of course Texas Central would rather invest entirely upon HSR, not not some into a short line, and is willing to wait for the lawsuits to make its way through the Texas courts.

[SFBruin]

Originally Posted by austlar1

If business was picking up my tab, I might consider flying (or train I guess) and then use Uber or a car rental at my destination.

I have to say that I see this project mostly as a business commuter line. If it picks up enough steam from business travelers and gets enough use then I hope that it would change the way normal travelers travel between the two cities.

[muertecaza]

Luka Doncic is apparently a supporter:

https://twitter.com/luka7doncic/stat...32761100017670

[llamaorama]

Does the law stipulate that to be classified as a railroad an entity must operate trains within Texas or even the United States?

Texas Central's most prominent backer is JR, who I presume is an active railway. Some component of it may even be old enough to predate the historic law - according to Wikipedia the first Japanese commercial railway opened in 1872 and some feudal states imported steam engines a decade earlier. It's other big partners are also established and old players in the high speed rail industry. Those companies would not participate in a real estate scam, they intend to eventually make money operating railway vehicles.