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  #41  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 4:35 AM
mykl mykl is offline
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I really like Nogoshkodadwin Park because it seems the most complete. I absolutely hate the rest. This reminds me of Lebreton Flats... one clear winner that was well thought out, and the other options are a bunch of crazy crap all packed in there because they had to fill the space.

And whoever thinks shaving down part of our nice elevated lookout point is a GOOD idea needs to be fired. I'm looking at you, Park For A Nation In Progress!
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  #42  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 1:07 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Even by NCC standards, the purple prose in the four proposals' write-ups is laughably bad.
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  #43  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 1:27 PM
AndyMEng AndyMEng is offline
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Originally Posted by mykl View Post
I really like Nogoshkodadwin Park because it seems the most complete. I absolutely hate the rest. This reminds me of Lebreton Flats... one clear winner that was well thought out, and the other options are a bunch of crazy crap all packed in there because they had to fill the space.

And whoever thinks shaving down part of our nice elevated lookout point is a GOOD idea needs to be fired. I'm looking at you, Park For A Nation In Progress!
Each proposal heavily relies on the NCC to animate the space. There's lots of nooks and crannies in a few of these proposals that would be a great place to hang out if the space was busy. Otherwise it could get creepy pretty fast.

What is the programming for the building surrounding the statue in the Nogoshkodadwin Park proposal? I just see dollar signs and then a future disused structure like the buildings that are already on the site. Do we want the park to have buildings, or do we want a passive space?

Love a couple of the bridges to Major's hill park. Can't wait for that. And connection to Lady Grey Drive.

LOL Mykl, yes, imagine the audacity of these people to remove tonnes of contaminated 60's backfill to return the park to it's natural state! For shame! (sarcasm)
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  #44  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 1:43 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
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Originally Posted by AndyMEng;7944418[B
]Each proposal heavily relies on the NCC to animate the space.[/B] There's lots of nooks and crannies in a few of these proposals that would be a great place to hang out if the space was busy. Otherwise it could get creepy pretty fast.

What is the programming for the building surrounding the statue in the Nogoshkodadwin Park proposal? I just see dollar signs and then a future disused structure like the buildings that are already on the site. Do we want the park to have buildings, or do we want a passive space?

Love a couple of the bridges to Major's hill park. Can't wait for that. And connection to Lady Grey Drive.

LOL Mykl, yes, imagine the audacity of these people to remove tonnes of contaminated 60's backfill to return the park to it's natural state! For shame! (sarcasm)
What would be the alternative?

Is the NCC free to pick and choose design elements from among the four proposals?
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  #45  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 2:42 PM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by mykl View Post
I really like Nogoshkodadwin Park because it seems the most complete. I absolutely hate the rest. This reminds me of Lebreton Flats... one clear winner that was well thought out, and the other options are a bunch of crazy crap all packed in there because they had to fill the space.
Agreed.
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  #46  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 2:56 PM
Arcologist Arcologist is offline
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Is it just me, or is the information on the NCC website incredibly small and difficult to read?

Is there somewhere to download the presentations in pdf?
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  #47  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 3:54 PM
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McKellarDweller McKellarDweller is offline
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Sell it to Claridge! We need more teal spandrel panels, and early 1990s architecture downtown! /s
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  #48  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 3:58 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Is it just me, or is the information on the NCC website incredibly small and difficult to read?

Is there somewhere to download the presentations in pdf?
It is not just you. The NCC has learned lessons from the City of Ottawa in terms of worst practices for making information "public".
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  #49  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 5:29 PM
kalabaw kalabaw is offline
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There are elements in each design that I like, but overall, I think the most most complete one is Nogoshkodadwin Park. My second option would be Big River Landscape.
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  #50  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 8:47 PM
kilroy kilroy is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
It is not just you. The NCC has learned lessons from the City of Ottawa in terms of worst practices for making information "public".
I suggest doing what I did. Complete the survey by answering "Don't Know" to every question and input PICTURES TOO SMALL in all 3 adjective boxes. I wonder if we could skew the results... maybe they'd get the idea.
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  #51  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2017, 1:57 AM
suburbia suburbia is offline
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Originally Posted by AndyMEng View Post
LOL Mykl, yes, imagine the audacity of these people to remove tonnes of contaminated 60's backfill to return the park to it's natural state! For shame! (sarcasm)
The aspects of the Ryan proposal I found interesting were that it didn't add a bridge to Major's Hill Park, rather went under the existing bridge closer to the water. Further, that walk along the edge of the water would continue (I'm presuming) all the way to Lady Grey, at the point the next phase behind the art gallery would be implemented.

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Originally Posted by Arcologist View Post
Is it just me, or is the information on the NCC website incredibly small and difficult to read?

Is there somewhere to download the presentations in pdf?
Incredibly small. These things get won or lost in the details, and I couldn't see those.
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  #52  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2017, 1:58 PM
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The aspects of the Ryan proposal I found interesting were that it didn't add a bridge to Major's Hill Park, rather went under the existing bridge closer to the water.
I see this as a major flaw in their proposal. The number 1 feature that they are touting is "The unforgettable experience of ascending to the Point..." via a switchback trail up the limestone bluff. This is not going to be a very accessible experience for the elderly, infirm, or people with walkers or wheelchairs. Will the NCC be forced to build an elevator here as well? Remember the outcry over the Sussex Stairs? Norman, what are your thoughts on this?
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  #53  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2017, 2:39 PM
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Let's make sure Nepean Point's new park works as a park

David Reevely David Reevely
Published on: October 6, 2017 | Last Updated: October 6, 2017 5:34 PM EDT


If renovating Nepean Point is going to be worth the money, we have to make it magnetic, a place people cannot help but visit.

The lookout behind the National Gallery is a spectacular spot with glorious views of the heart of Ottawa and Gatineau. It’s also hard to get to and there’s nothing to do when you arrive but take in the view and then leave again. A couple of sculptures are all but concealed there. The decaying amphitheatre needs major work. The NCC rightly wants to take the opportunity to spiff the space up and connect it better to the rest of Ottawa, and it has $6.7 million to spend.

So here we are with the design competition, with four teams of experts presenting on Thursday different visions for how to renovate the place: “A Park For Our Nation In Progress,” “Bluff Point,” “Nogoshkodadwin Park,” and “Big River Landscape,” they’re called. They’re all pretty similar.

A fun game would be to read the descriptions and every time you see the words “dynamic” or “iconic,” take a drink. Actually, don’t do that, because you’ll die. “Meander” will get you pretty squiffed. “Choreographed” is about right for a fun night.

One proposal is to scrape the highest part of Nepean Point down to bedrock for “a clean start and a new terrain for all Canadians to inscribe the future evolution of the park.”

With what? Ah. “A fleet of small-scale equipment and supplies (carving and cultivation tools, water, soil, seeds, stools, hammocks) is supplied at the gate,” to help create “a process-based park” that will never be truly finished. Or a mess.

The renderings show children scampering barefoot on the rough rock. One little girl is about to pitch straight into an open firepit where a guy, implicitly Indigenous, is just sitting playing a drum while a lady takes his picture.

Another team’s renderings look as if they’ve been smeared with Vaseline. The shafts of sunlight are clearer than the features they’re supposedly illuminating, such as groves full of ghostly white cutouts of people.

This is before we get into the descriptive language. One proposal makes very much of Nepean Point as a symbolic meeting place for Indigenous and European cultures, which is fair enough.

“As we envisioned the creation of this iconic park, we used two types of geometries, symbolizing the two cultures, in order to create a seamless connection between Nepean Point, Major’s Hill Park, and the urban context through the National Gallery of Canada,” it says. “This dichotomy of geometries meanders through the site, finds its way to the point, merges and meets at the centre of the park.”

Another proposal also wants to connect the past to the present and also “form a platform upon which new cultural memories can be created.”

Here’s how: “In order to connect to the past, we envision a park where a visitor’s journey through the landscape is punctuated by moments where they can listen to the ‘voices’ of others and contribute their own voice to a dynamic conversation.”

The “voices of others” include the sounds of leaves and from the “power of the churning river below” (n.b. the Ottawa River does not churn below Nepean Point). There will be a place with “deep seating nooks” where people can experience “subtle ephemeral narratives” that “emanate from within the landscape,” and a firepit with “animated dialogue.”

So in some places the voices are metaphorical, in other places literal, and in the case of the churning river, imaginary. I guess contributing your own voice means you … whisper O Canada to the leaves?

Another proposal talks about flower beds that will “provide year-round interest.” One thing flower beds cannot do in Ottawa is provide year-round interest.

These are not uniquely bad proposals or anything. They’re from national-calibre teams who obviously invested a lot of time and work. This is what practically any design-competition submission sounds like.

None of the proposals mentions children, families or play. There’s no whimsy. They’re all about making the landscape into a cultural and intellectual experience, which is the NCC’s doing: its vision for Nepean Point is to “offer a multi-sensory experience, allowing visitors to discover the Canadian soul, as well as Canadian symbols, values, poetry and way of life.” It says nothing about fun.

You ask for guff, you get guff.

What’s worryingly missing is what exactly will draw people to Nepean Point when we aren’t going in numbers now. The renderings are crowded with visitors in all seasons, but … why?

All four proposals talk about eventually improving Nepean Point’s connection to Major’s Hill Park — three with walkable overpasses of the approach to the Alexandra Bridge, one with an underpass. Making it easier to reach will help.

Two of the four proposals mention cafés. The popularity of the nearby Tavern on the Hill this summer suggests that’s a good idea. But what else have you got?

Think of what a non-draw the Garden of the Provinces is, or Commissioners Park when there’s no festival in it. They’re nice enough, well kept and in pretty locations, but there’s no real reason to visit them. People at least pass through them on their way elsewhere.

Maybe there’s deep latent demand for subtle ephemeral narratives and meandering geometric dichotomies? I fret there isn’t.

This is how the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto ended up with its $135-million “crystal” addition to its stately old castle. Designed by star architect Daniel Libeskind, it’s a tremendous architectural statement, inspired by the museum’s collection of gems and minerals, that opened in 2007.

“Libeskind created a structure of organically interlocking prismatic forms turning this important corner of Toronto, and the entire museum complex, into a luminous beacon,” Libeskind’s studio says of it. The museum people adored it before it was built.

Problematically, it’s kind of a bad space for displaying artifacts (like the outside, the interior walls are all at odd angles, not straight up and down) and it contains an inadequate ground-level entrance to the museum that the provincial government is paying to replace. It leaked and in a Canadian winter was a perfect machine for making icicles and pelting them down on passersby.

They forgot to ask whether the crystal addition to the museum would work as a museum. We’re in danger of spending millions of dollars on a Nepean Point park without asking whether it works as a park.

dreevely@postmedia.com
twitter.com/davidreevely

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...orks-as-a-park
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  #54  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2017, 3:26 PM
SkeggsEggs SkeggsEggs is offline
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It always rubs me the wrong way when a piece like that is put out with a lot of criticism but absolutely no suggestions what so ever on how to improve it at all...

There are always people hanging out at Major Hill's park even when there isn't an event on. Before Tavern on the Hill opened this summer there wasn't exactly a some massive draw aside from nice flowers, a beautiful view, a view statues and a Chimney... not exactly pulling people in. If Nepean Point is more accessible (via a bridge) and has a trendy Cafe I don't see why it wouldn't have people hanging about.
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  #55  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2017, 3:41 PM
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silvergate silvergate is offline
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That Reevely article was hilarious. I think the point he is making is very relevant though, nepean point is out of the way for most people, there needs to be an actual reason to go over and over again. Sure, a cafe might convince people to hang out there, but why would someone from centretown or Byward trek over there when they can just walk to a Starbucks? Let alone anybody else in the city.
Definitely feels like they are missing some key elements in this.
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  #56  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2017, 4:29 PM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by silvergate View Post
That Reevely article was hilarious. I think the point he is making is very relevant though, nepean point is out of the way for most people, there needs to be an actual reason to go over and over again. Sure, a cafe might convince people to hang out there, but why would someone from centretown or Byward trek over there when they can just walk to a Starbucks? Let alone anybody else in the city.
Definitely feels like they are missing some key elements in this.
Elements like what? What do you suggest outside of what's been presented?
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  #57  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2017, 6:50 PM
suburbia suburbia is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
I see this as a major flaw in their proposal. The number 1 feature that they are touting is "The unforgettable experience of ascending to the Point..." via a switchback trail up the limestone bluff. This is not going to be a very accessible experience for the elderly, infirm, or people with walkers or wheelchairs. Will the NCC be forced to build an elevator here as well? Remember the outcry over the Sussex Stairs? Norman, what are your thoughts on this?
Good point.
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  #58  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2017, 6:52 PM
suburbia suburbia is offline
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Originally Posted by silvergate View Post
That Reevely article was hilarious. I think the point he is making is very relevant though, nepean point is out of the way for most people, there needs to be an actual reason to go over and over again. Sure, a cafe might convince people to hang out there, but why would someone from centretown or Byward trek over there when they can just walk to a Starbucks? Let alone anybody else in the city.
Definitely feels like they are missing some key elements in this.
Connecting to Major's hill and then to Lady Grey (which would become a pedestrian path) and with our cultural institutions opening to the riverfront more, it will also help - and create a reason to be there and also pass through.
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  #59  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2017, 8:33 PM
Norman Bates Norman Bates is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
I see this as a major flaw in their proposal. The number 1 feature that they are touting is "The unforgettable experience of ascending to the Point..." via a switchback trail up the limestone bluff. This is not going to be a very accessible experience for the elderly, infirm, or people with walkers or wheelchairs. Will the NCC be forced to build an elevator here as well? Remember the outcry over the Sussex Stairs? Norman, what are your thoughts on this?
You’re right. Accessibility is something we don’t think much about until we find ourself pushing someone around in a wheelchair - or worse. So a lot of the adaptations required seem to get added after the initial proposal stage when the granular details get hashed out through the various filters that the NCC imposes. That is to say that I believe whatever does get built will meet the accessibility standards of the day.

I have used the Sussex elevator a number of times, as well as the one along the escarpment in Vielle Quebec, and am grateful for them.

As far as realizing a redevelopment of Nepean Point, well that’s best described as a longitudinal objective measured against the NCC’s past performance.
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  #60  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2017, 8:25 PM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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Hey waterloowarrior, could we get a poll going on here?
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