Electric Vehicle Charging Stations in Ottawa-Gatineau

[CanadaGoose]

Originally Posted by roger1818

What you are conveniently forgetting is the majority of PetroCanada chargers go up to 175kW and Electrify Canada has 350kW chargers at most locations.

That said, as you mentioned in a later post, current batteries won't charge for very long at those rates, so in the real world, a 50kW charger isn't as bad as it seems on paper.

Yes, you are correct.
But we don’t even have one in Ottawa finished.
Electrify Canada stations only have one chademo charger, and the rest CCS.

The wide majority of chargers on the road are capped at 50KW. Unless you are lucky to get an PetroCanada, Electrify Canada or Tesla.

Also, I want to know your experience road tripping with your BEV. I’m curious.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by CyrusKafaiwu

Yes, you are correct.
But we don’t even have one in Ottawa finished.

A Petro-Canada in Gatineau has DCFCs. The reality is Ottawa is more of a destination than waypoint, so the need for DCFCs is reduced (though not eliminated).

Electrify Canada stations only have one chademo charger, and the rest CCS.

True, but AFAIK, the only BEV sold in Canada that both uses CHAdeMO and supports charging above 50kW is the 62kWh Nissan LEAF Plus (standard LEAFs are limited to 50kW). Even the Teslas CHAdeMO adapter limits charging to 50kW.

The wide majority of chargers on the road are capped at 50KW. Unless you are lucky to get an PetroCanada, Electrify Canada or Tesla.

True.

Also, I want to know your experience road tripping with your BEV. I’m curious.

Since most of our road trips are done with the van (to be more comfortable for our kids (who are also tall) and for extra cargo space), I decided to buy a BEV with only about a 240km range to save some money, as that is more than enough for daily use, though not really good enough for a road trip. Only once did we have to take the van when I would have preferred to take the BEV because of a combination of a lack of range and DCFCs en route.

What I didn't expect is how much nicer a BEV is to drive (ICEVs seem so unrefined as not only are they smelly*, noisy and rough, but you don't feel as much of a connection with the vehicle). As a result I dislike having to drive the van (even though it is nice for an ICEV) and am looking forward to replacing it when an appropriate replacement becomes available and finances permit. Given that our van should last beyond when our youngest graduates, its replacement may not need to be a van. Regardless, there will be a lot more selection by then.

* I never really noticed the smell before, as I was desensitized to it, but I sure notice it now. Interestingly, I was talking to my older daughter (who has sensory issues) about it, and she said she had always noticed a sour smell in all cars (not just ours), so she thought it was normal. Interestingly our BEV is the first vehicle she has ever been in that doesn't have that small. She says that buses don't have that smell though. She also said that the car sickness she used to suffer from when she was younger wasn't from the motion, but the smell.

[roger1818]

duplicate post.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Apologies in advance but...

Just drove about 3000 km over the past week. Just noticed how amazing the ICE is. In about 60 seconds you can add another 700km of range.
After taxes it cost me about $40. Since these taxes pay for our roads the Electric free riders will eventually have to pony up further destroying the economics of an already dubious mathematics. Personally I drive less than 10000km a year including usually a long trip or two so the cost is mostly irrelevant to me.

Part of the reason that electric vehicles have such an uphill battle is that gasoline is a pretty incredible energy storage and transfer medium. Energy density is high, it's easy to move, it can be handled and transferred relatively safely by untrained laypeople, it's cheap and now of course, it's ubiquitous. That high energy density and ease of handling makes refills quick. Most importantly though, almost all of the negatives are externalities born by others.

The tax issue is interesting. For now, I think it's great that gasoline taxes are a relatively easy way to incentivize reducing gasoline use. They encourage less consumption through higher efficiency, less usage and alternative fuels, without the concerns about government tracking your driving distances etc. Since you refill often, taxes are distributed fairly evenly among the areas you drive (more of an issue in the states where states are smaller and inter-state commerce is more common).

We're a long way off, but we will eventually run into a situation where electric vehicles are common enough that we will need a way to figure out how to tax them effectively. They're certainly better than gas, but all private automobiles have negative externalities.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I wish the ban on new gas and diesel sales would be moved up to 2035, like the UK.

Interestingly, in both a Twitter post by Shell UK (yes, the petroleum company) and an article on LinkedIn by Shell’s UK county chair Sinead Lynch say that that the UK could achieve a ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars as soon as 2030.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Just drove about 3000 km over the past week. Just noticed how amazing the ICE is. In about 60 seconds you can add another 700km of range.

Last week, like usual, I didn't drive 3000 km. On the weekend I noticed how inconvenient the ICE is. Our family went out together on Saturday and decided to take the van, since it has more room in the back for the kids. When we got back, the tank was close to empty so I decided to fill up. We had the choice of taking the family to the gas station and have everyone wait the extra 5 minutes each (when you include the detour, the time to pump and pay) so a total of 20 minutes wasted (there were 4 of us), or have me drive them home and have me make a special trip to the gas station (only about 10 minutes wasted for me). With a BEV, you just drive home like usual and plug it in (maybe 15 second of extra time for me now and 15 seconds later when I need to unplug) and let it charge while parked.

This may not seem like much, but if you need to buy gas every 2 weeks, and you can plan it so that it is always only a 5 minute detour (no special trips and no one else in the car), that is 130 minutes (or just over 2 hours) a year of wasted time.

This doesn't even take into account the times you are running late and realize you need gas. That is not a problem with a BEV as it is easy to keep it topped up without having to constantly stop at the gas station.

First world problem? Yes, but it is still worthy of consideration. People frequently focus on the road trips that they might only do once or twice a year and ignore the benefit in your daily life.

[CanadaGoose]

If we are providing stories of driving a car, here’s mine:

- Previous Sunday morning, I went to Costco in Gatineau, there are 4 L3s and 4 L2s. All 4 L3s were full. I had 230km approx on the car, so not the worst scenario.

- the story above might prove that L3s at Costco or grocery stores are useful and will be used. It charges a Chevy Bolt from empty to full in about an hour (Im guessing).

- Definitely sucks that all L3s were full, and that some people may have to wait 0 mins to 1 hour for a charger.

——-
And for roger1818, not everyone can charge at home.

[roger1818]

A very interesting review of the Hyundai Kona Electric EV by John Cadogan. He is from Australia, so not everything is relevant to the Great White North, and as he says:

I'm the country's least-evangelical EV reviewer.

Which I tend to agree since he dislikes Tesla (he refers to Elon Musk as Electric Jesus) and Nissan. While not perfect, I do feel it is overall a good review.

• Video Link

[The Conductor]

This is much better for charging stations - the EV revolution in Ottawa is real

https://www.plugshare.com/

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by CyrusKafaiwu

And for roger1818, not everyone can charge at home.

Currently that is correct (though more than half could), but we need to fix that if we want mass adoption of BEVs. The biggest issue will be for those who have to park on the street at home, but there are even solutions for that.

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

This is much better for charging stations - the EV revolution in Ottawa is real

https://www.plugshare.com/

A good segue to my request....

We've decided to pull the trigger and purchase a Tesla Model Y. Given we don't have a place to plug in, we're hoping we can pull this off without having to buy a house in order to install a charger at home (that would make the car really expensive!)

[Edited and took out my first request as I solved that on my own]

Second: can the EV enthusiasts here recommend Canadian based or even more local forums I can join? I've found the Tesla Ottawa Owners Club forum but it's pretty quiet.

[CanadaGoose]

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

A good segue to my request....

We've decided to pull the trigger and purchase a Tesla Model Y. Given we don't have a place to plug in, we're hoping we can pull this off without having to buy a house in order to install a charger at home (that would make the car really expensive!)

[Edited and took out my first request as I solved that on my own]

Second: can the EV enthusiasts here recommend Canadian based or even more local forums I can join? I've found the Tesla Ottawa Owners Club forum but it's pretty quiet.

TeslaMotorsClub.com

There isn’t much to learn. Just read the manual quickly before delivery.
Carry a ChaDeMo adapter $602 if you’re travelling up north or in rural areas or borrow one.

I installed PlugShare, Electric Circuit and ChargePoint on my phone.
A Better Route Planner is also available for road trip planning.


I’m doing fine without a charger but indoor parking with a M3 SR+.

Enjoy it!
——-

Some recent updates:
- Tesla Supercharger in Bells corners almost ready
- 4 New free level 2 chargers at Metro on Eagleson, Kanata
- Quebec rebate to expire on Dec 31 . Rebate is 8000$.

[SidetrackedSue]

Thanks for the tips. Where we go 'up north' (actually, technically a km closer to the equator than our home) can offer us 120v and we just park and stay there for a week at a time. There are chargers on the way coming soon, as well. And in theory, we should be able to make the return trip on one charge. At least in summer.

Originally Posted by CyrusKafaiwu

- Quebec rebate to expire on Dec 31 . Rebate is 8000$.

I'm in Ontario... sigh. And the MY is too expensive for the federal rebate. On the other hand, the Audi e-Tron doesn't qualify either. (It was eliminated from our list because it was a foot too long for our parking spot, not to mention price.)

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by CyrusKafaiwu

If we are providing stories of driving a car, here’s mine:

- Previous Sunday morning, I went to Costco in Gatineau, there are 4 L3s and 4 L2s. All 4 L3s were full. I had 230km approx on the car, so not the worst scenario.

- the story above might prove that L3s at Costco or grocery stores are useful and will be used. It charges a Chevy Bolt from empty to full in about an hour (Im guessing).

- Definitely sucks that all L3s were full, and that some people may have to wait 0 mins to 1 hour for a charger.

——-
And for roger1818, not everyone can charge at home.

People charging while getting groceries. Imagine that.

[Truenorth00]

I wish we could do something like this:

California grid regulators approved the largest utility-led electric vehicle charging deployment in the country on Thursday.

The new program allows Southern California Edison to spend $436 million of ratepayer funds to install 38,000 light-duty electric car chargers. The utility pays for supporting equipment to get power from the grid to the charger, while the customer typically owns and manages the charger itself, with optional rebates from the utility. The program does not target single-family homes, which have a relatively straightforward path to adding chargers; instead it supports multifamily housing and "away from home" sites like workplaces and shopping centers.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...am-of-its-kind

This is for a service area with 14 million residents. So ballpark about the same as Ontario.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by CyrusKafaiwu

Incentives and lack of charging tax for EVs exist to encourage people to reduce CO2, it’s more of a temporary triple bottom line measure.

As an effort to reduce GHG emissions, EV rebates are a joke. There's plenty of better ways to spend that money. As political greenwashing and vote buying? Highly effective.

Originally Posted by CyrusKafaiwu

Once, they manage to get EVs to their targets. They will probably find a way to tax us.

The rebates are going to become more politically precarious as the number of models on the market goes up in the next two years and rebate claims skyrocket. They should have been smart and created a drawdown schedule that takes into account declining battery prices. Assuming the forecasts are right and BEVs hit our purchase price parity in 2025, there's no need for rebates after that. They should start reducing the rebate by $1000 per year.

And yeah, eventually, we are going to have to discuss how roads are going to be funded with declining fuel tax revenue. Maybe a fixed charge by vehicle size. The average personal vehicle with average mileage is probably paying $300-400 in provincial and federal fuel excise taxes. And about the same in sales taxes on their fuel. Maybe tacking on $400 to annual registration of an EV is a fair way to go about it.

[Tesladom]

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

Second: can the EV enthusiasts here recommend Canadian based or even more local forums I can join? I've found the Tesla Ottawa Owners Club forum but it's pretty quiet.

Congrats!!
Best forums are on Facebook, Ottawa Tesla group is pretty good

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I wish we could do something like this:



https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...am-of-its-kind

This is for a service area with 14 million residents. So ballpark about the same as Ontario.

The Ivy charging network is Ontario's equivalent, being developed by OPG and Hydro One. It's a fraction of the size of the Edison network though. They're only planning 160 chargers for now.

https://electricautonomy.ca/2019/10/...launch-of-ivy/

Originally Posted by roger1818

I call BS! At about $1.20 per litre, $40 will buy you 33.3l of gas. Divide that by 30 (3000 km / 100) and you get 1.1 l/100km. I can't think of any ICE that gets anywhere close to that fuel economy. If we change it an an incredibly low 5 l/100km, that would work out to about $180 in gas.

Even if it weren't true, you aren't taking into account the maintenance costs resulting from your trip (for example, how much sooner will you need to change your oil).

Most people don't take maintenance costs into account when they figure out the cost of a trip. But we all pay more for maintenance the more we drive, especially for ICE cars. I agree, that 3000 km trip cost a lot more than $40.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Mister F

The Ivy charging network is Ontario's equivalent, being developed by OPG and Hydro One. It's a fraction of the size of the Edison network though. They're only planning 160 chargers for now.

https://electricautonomy.ca/2019/10/...launch-of-ivy/

If by fraction you mean 0.4%. Sure.....

SoCal Edison is actually targeting multi-unit dwellings as I had previously suggested in this thread. Ivy is putting up fast chargers and not even looking at multi-unit residences. Different goals.

[CanadaGoose]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

If by fraction you mean 0.4%. Sure.....

SoCal Edison is actually targeting multi-unit dwellings as I had previously suggested in this thread. Ivy is putting up fast chargers and not even looking at multi-unit residences. Different goals.

To even add on, they are only looking to put two chargers in Ottawa at Home Depot?!?!!?