[Saint John] 91 King Street | ?m | ?s | Site Prep

[905er]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

It all looks bland. I'll come out and say it.

-The front entrance takes more inspiration from auto dealerships or nice malls than the market next door.
-Beige paneling is doing a lot of work masquerading as sandstone over a giant surface area. Let's not kid ourselves, this is functionally beige concrete.
-Not a foot of stepback from podium, makes podium look even faker. Podium exhibits no detailing, it's as plain as the RBC building across the street. No floor by floor variation in window height, no decorative brickwork, nothing.
-King Square face is atrocious. Everything about it
-Middle section of King St podium looks like a kid's drawing.

Worst part is the treatment of views.

To the west is... office towers next door and Douglas Avenue on the horizon. Penthouse might get the mill, haha. Balconies are loaded to this side. Second worst views after the north side, which doesn't really have anything, even distance.

The views to the east (two mature parks!) and of course the south (the peninsula and ocean) are basically neglected.

Someone had to say it.. The height.. win.. great I'll give it that.. I like the side profile with the glass balconies.. the rest you can already tell from the renders will likely be poor quality material wise which probably won't age well. The podium is ok.. but just ok. I would have prefered something more along the lines of what's being built in Halifax .. a little more polish on this.

[ColSJ]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Knowing Malcolm’s work on the Law Courts, he brings into the design the overall skyline and feel of the uptown architecture - and I think he is doing the same here. The issue is we look at it up close without zooming out and looking at it within context of the whole skyline. He’s obviously taking queues from other buildings:

I think you make a great point on this one!

[cdnguys]

Interesting, page 111 of the PAC Committee docket says the building does not need to be peer reviewed due to the quality of the building design.
The majority of the buildings framing King’s Square are neutral / beige - UNB, Admiral Beatty, Imperial, Irving Home Office, Golden Ball

At least it doesn’t look like the Holman Grand Hotel in Charlottetown!

Also from submission:

Contemporary materials may include cementitious panels, metal wall panels (including steel or aluminum composite or concrete panels. The developer will finalize the type of contemporary materials being utilized during the detail design of the building.

The submitted drawing and rendering indicate that the transparent materials will range between 35% to 49% but it is acknowledged that the design and placement of the entryway and windows will be subject to change as the building design is fully developed. Staff supports a reduction in the minimum amount of transparency from a minimum of 50% to a minimum of 30%, thus providing the architect with flexibility to finalize the building design

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Interesting, page 111 of the PAC Committee docket says the building does not need to be peer reviewed due to the quality of the building design.
The majority of the buildings framing King’s Square are neutral / beige - UNB, Admiral Beatty, Imperial, Irving Home Office, Golden Ball

At least it doesn’t look like the Holman Grand Hotel in Charlottetown!

Also from submission:

Contemporary materials may include cementitious panels, metal wall panels (including steel or aluminum composite or concrete panels. The developer will finalize the type of contemporary materials being utilized during the detail design of the building.

The submitted drawing and rendering indicate that the transparent materials will range between 35% to 49% but it is acknowledged that the design and placement of the entryway and windows will be subject to change as the building design is fully developed. Staff supports a reduction in the minimum amount of transparency from a minimum of 50% to a minimum of 30%, thus providing the architect with flexibility to finalize the building design

So it gets a free pass for what reason exactly? This is rough. The King Square side looks awful. King Square South is a mix of brick and engineered stone, the UNB building is sandstone, this is panels.

The 3rd-class cabin portals overlooking the square might be the biggest lost opportunity here, and that's saying something.

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

So it gets a free pass for what reason exactly? This is rough. The King Square side looks awful. King Square South is a mix of brick and engineered stone, the UNB building is sandstone, this is panels.

The 3rd-class cabin portals overlooking the square might be the biggest lost opportunity here, and that's saying something.

Honestly, I'll take it, but no balconies facing King's Square is unforgivable and a glass (or anything) architectural feature between 99 and 98 instead of concrete panels meeting the sidewalk would dramatically improve the overall design.

[NewIreland]

Put some kind of glass feature here between the two brick facades with a mild setback and we have a winner.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

Put some kind of glass feature here between the two brick facades with a mild setback and we have a winner.

As a template it's great. But if what we're seeing is what get's built it is not acceptable. Especially the weird offsets on the windows between the middle blocks of windows.

Maybe arched windows and some decorative brickwork on the podium, set back just a metre or something, and design the upper and lower podium facades differently- it's a long wall- or at least extend the cornice.

Middle segment should be curtain glass or they should shell out for engineered stone and put some more thought into the design.

I'll be conciliatory and say I like the deep eaves and penthouse floors. But they should just copy the west side on the east side.

[cdnguys]

The balconies appear to be mostly inset - gives privacy but also pretty shaded. In this a desirable balcony design for apartments? I have no idea
Prince Edward Sq apartments have them - they look kinda depressing

[Uptownini]

Plans are up for 91 King Street:
https://pub-saintjohn.escribemeeting...ocumentId=8353

Not sure what I think about the renders so far.
If the lower floors are well done, "noone" will notice the upper floors if they turn out rather generic.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by Uptownini

Plans are up for 91 King Street:
https://pub-saintjohn.escribemeeting...ocumentId=8353

Not sure what I think about the renders so far.
If the lower floors are well done, "noone" will notice the upper floors if they turn out rather generic.

It will be the tallest building on what might be the most prominent point in the city. People will notice a beige box with suburb windows. We have to set higher standards.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

It will be the tallest building on what might be the most prominent point in the city. People will notice a beige box with suburb windows. We have to set higher standards.

This is my concern. This will be a very prominent addition to the city skyline, and will help define the city. Great care must be taken in it's overall design and character. The podium is acceptable. The tower should be reconsidered.

[905er]

hold up, you're telling me this is going to be the tallest in Saint John, and that's the best they can give you?.. that's just wrong . If it's going to be that prominent, here's a golden opportunity to design something with a bit of a wow factor.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by 905er

hold up, you're telling me this is going to be the tallest in Saint John, and that's the best they can give you?.. that's just wrong . If it's going to be that prominent, here's a golden opportunity to design something with a bit of a wow factor.

It won’t be the tallest building in Saint John, but it is at the top of a hill, which will make it more prominent than it otherwise would be

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It won’t be the tallest building in Saint John, but it is at the top of a hill, which will make it more prominent than it otherwise would be

The podium isn't fine either. It looks like Harbour Station or a similar-age mall. Nothing ornamental and the best they could come up with for the entrance was 'big door and big street number'.

[cdnguys]

It’s not final design anyhow. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.

[adamuptownsj]

It's good to grouse. I wouldn't be surprised if more people read the site from 'decision making positions' than you'd think.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

I have to give it some time to digest / think about design. My immediate reaction was I liked the podium, but not so much the beige body and the “hat” on top of the building. Knowing Malcolm’s work on the Law Courts, he brings into the design the overall skyline and feel of the uptown architecture - and I think he is doing the same here. The issue is we look at it up close without zooming out and looking at it within context of the whole skyline. He’s obviously taking queues from other buildings:

That's how I feel about it, as well. There's a lot of Admiral Beatty in the tower and Harbour Station in the podium. Think we need to see quality of materials being used before having any sort of final say on how the tower section turns out. I don't really mind the podium except for it looking too large and clunky the further it moves down King, but appreciate that extending a podium down a declining hill isn't easy.

[ColSJ]

A point to note that Wilbur made:

Wilbur has said construction will not begin until the project has locked in a few tenants, which he believes could take up to a few months after demolition.

https://www.country94.ca/2021/07/19/...sc_ref=twitter

This obviously makes sense however it does worry me that the timeline gets pushed back too far into the late fall and then they decide to begin construction in spring 2022. Having renders of the building now available probably would entice potential tenants to buy in speeding up the process.

[gehrhardt]

Add my name to the list of people confused by the lack of balconies on the King Square side. Yes, you'd get the refinery in the distance, but the uptown view would be pretty nice.

[darkharbour]

My impression is that the design will change a lot between these renderings and the final product, especially given the lack of fine detail in the renders which suggests that maybe the details on windows, cladding, etc. are still being worked out, costed, or sourced. I'm pretty indifferent about the design presented, it's not bad - and much better than either the previous building or the current hole in the ground - but not terribly exciting or contemporary either. The two parts I'm most concerned about are the overall tower colour and the large arched doorways on the podium, both of which seem oddly institutional and/or outdated.