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  #81  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2020, 8:03 PM
Phalanx Phalanx is offline
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I think so too and it is worrisome.

BLM is an actual organization with a manifesto with stated aims like moving society away from traditional family structures and dismantling capitalism.
Not to derail anything here, but I feel like this needs to be pointed out... That manifesto isn't real:
https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/09/...festo-fascist/

The supposed manifesto has nothing to do with the BLM organization. If you want to learn a bit more about what they actually stand for, whether you agree or not, see: https://blacklivesmatter.com and https://blacklivesmatter.ca/ and https://blacklivesmatter.ca/demands/. I think it's just important to stop spreading misinformation.

Furthermore, yes, there's an actual BLM organization, but supporting 'black lives matter' is not the same as supporting 'Black Lives Matter'. Kind of like how we have to differentiate between 'big C/big L and little c/little l' conservative/liberal.
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  #82  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2020, 8:16 PM
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Originally Posted by pchipman View Post
Though the most immediate and recognizable show of support is likely via such signage, and I consider that important even though the specifics of the movement may include issues that do not necessarily align with the goals of local government. It's a tricky issue.
At the end of the day, governance (hopefully) relies on people making what they think are reasonable decisions and I am not sure there is any inherent hard line between what is acceptable or unacceptable.

With the BLM stuff I think of the trade-off as far as achieving concrete goals vs. encouraging polarization. A bus that says "black lives matter" doesn't do very much but invites the use of bus signs as vehicles for political slogans. While some people may agree with BLM (the organization or just the sentiment or phrase), they should ask themselves if they'd be happy if some other group were in charge and using the buses for some similar purpose. In the US, the use of municipal infrastructure to promote BLM has sometimes provoked responses from people who wanted to name a road Make America Great Again or put up All Lives Matter signs. If we accept that this is all just a "judgement call" and the bus signs are up for grabs by whomever then the question of whether or not to put up a MAGA sign comes down to the sensibilities of city councillors or their constituents.
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  #83  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2020, 8:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
Not to derail anything here, but I feel like this needs to be pointed out... That manifesto isn't real
The stuff I posted is based on what I've read on the BLM Toronto and BLM Vancouver websites (and what I've historically followed as their actual demands when they shut down Pride parades in a few Canadian cities), not circulating social media content. I will admit I don't check them all the time and it looks like they've been updated (thankfully; I did actually save the content a while back and reposted it but I won't bother to dredge it up). The BLM "Canada" link you provided lists a bunch of Toronto-specific demands plus examples like:

- Canada must immediately open the Canada-USA border.
- Migrant workers in Canada must also be given permanent status and open work permits.

My concern is that HRM councillors may never have read this stuff, they may not endorse it, and a lot of it doesn't have to do with Halifax (i.e. it is Toronto activists making websites and labelling their stuff with "Canada") or is unclear. So it may be better for them to stick to local initiatives rather than endorse a specific organization's name.

I think the very fact that you made the leap from my post about BLM to the idea that I might be under the spell of right wing propaganda shows how politicized this really is.

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Furthermore, yes, there's an actual BLM organization, but supporting 'black lives matter' is not the same as supporting 'Black Lives Matter'. Kind of like how we have to differentiate between 'big C/big L and little c/little l' conservative/liberal.
Yet I wonder if this would be considered acceptable for "all lives matter", another deniable truth yet politically sensitive phrase. If HRM councillors suggested putting "all lives matter" on buses I would say that it's a bad idea.

Either way I do tend to think that this stuff will probably settle down in the future, as it had before the covid lockdown.
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  #84  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2020, 8:40 PM
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I think the very fact that you made the leap from my post about BLM to the idea that I might be under the spell of right wing propaganda shows how politicized this really is.
It wasn't a leap, you explicitly used the word 'manifesto'. The only BLM 'manifesto' of note is the fake one. It wasn't a leap, it was a 1+1=2, even if that wasn't your intention. For what it's worth, it wasn't something I was even aware of until I went looking for this supposed 'BLM manifesto' that you referenced, so there were no preconceived political motivations...

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Yet I wonder if this would be considered acceptable for "all lives matter", another deniable truth yet politically sensitive phrase. If HRM councillors suggested putting "all lives matter" on buses I would say that it's a bad idea.
The term 'All lives matter' is only controversial because it was politicized by various right-wing and anti-BLM movements who missed the point of what 'black lives matter' actually means.
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  #85  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2020, 9:51 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Either way I do tend to think that this stuff will probably settle down in the future, as it had before the covid lockdown.
I suppose it depends on what 'settle down' means. I suspect things will largely return to normal for white people as the normal comforting distractions resume in life after COVID, but almost certainly not for the black community. The clear display of racism in institutions of power that we've seen recently (at least in the US) are not so easily ignored by those directly afflicted by such hatred.
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  #86  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2020, 10:45 PM
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I have always viewed the signage and bus displays as statements that the lives of Black people in the city matter, a concession that they have been treated poorly in the past, and the city will do better in the future.

I see examples of this in how we are reevaluating the duties assigned to our police force (which I believe is better than most, but does not mean it cannot be improved.)

As for it settling down, I don’t see racial tensions settling down any time soon in Nova Scotia or Canada as a whole. The violence against Mi’kmaq fishers, police killings of Indigenous people in New Brunswick, and the people who took their own lives or who were killed by police during wellness checks has kept these issues top of mind for many. I am glad Halifax Council recognizes these issues and recognizes the hurt people from these groups are feeling. I hope they continue to work to see how we can better serve and protect our fellow citizens.
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  #87  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2020, 12:01 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
The stuff I posted is based on what I've read on the BLM Toronto and BLM Vancouver websites (and what I've historically followed as their actual demands when they shut down Pride parades in a few Canadian cities), not circulating social media content. I will admit I don't check them all the time and it looks like they've been updated (thankfully; I did actually save the content a while back and reposted it but I won't bother to dredge it up). The BLM "Canada" link you provided lists a bunch of Toronto-specific demands plus examples like:

- Canada must immediately open the Canada-USA border.
- Migrant workers in Canada must also be given permanent status and open work permits.

My concern is that HRM councillors may never have read this stuff, they may not endorse it, and a lot of it doesn't have to do with Halifax (i.e. it is Toronto activists making websites and labelling their stuff with "Canada") or is unclear. So it may be better for them to stick to local initiatives rather than endorse a specific organization's name.

I think the very fact that you made the leap from my post about BLM to the idea that I might be under the spell of right wing propaganda shows how politicized this really is.



Yet I wonder if this would be considered acceptable for "all lives matter", another deniable truth yet politically sensitive phrase. If HRM councillors suggested putting "all lives matter" on buses I would say that it's a bad idea.

Either way I do tend to think that this stuff will probably settle down in the future, as it had before the covid lockdown.
At least you weren't accused of trolling, so there's that.

The reality is that those who are involved with various branches of the movement (as in any good revolutionary movement, branches largely independent from each other pop up like weeds) tend to recycle existing statements and positions with their own specific twists added. The link posted did not actually prove anything that is or is not true, only pointed out the history of what was found. I note with interest that the Wiki page was recently sanitized and again, cannot be used as proof of anything given its very nature. The most clever thing about the organization is that it is wedded to the same name as the overall movement itself, leading supporters of the latter to inadvertently provide funding and other support to the former. One can support the sentiment (as do I) while condemning the people behind the organization itself.

There is a very fine line between expressing support for various do-good causes and using public funds for political purposes, and HRM has crossed that more than a few times. The example of using bus placards to post slogans is a good one. When does a slogan become a political statement? It is not easy to tell for sure and is likely in the eye of the beholder, but why do it at all? Vote on it at Council, designate the funding for signage or whatever, but let the voters see. A lot of this seems to be reactionary in-the-heat-of-the-moment signalling done by unknown individuals behind the scenes which isn't the way to do it.

As for politicians posting here and elsewhere, they surely know going in that not everyone will agree with everything they do. The councillor for the south end used Reddit as his personal pulpit for a long time and the students in his area worshipped him for that until he began getting offside even with some of them, and so he recently has quieted down there too. I again take issue with the poster claiming I have made "personal attacks" on politicians. I do not do that with anyone, ever. I disagree with their reasoning and positions on issues. It is easy to be critical of someone with whom you disagree, but that should be based on some set of principles and track record, not because you dislike their skin color or the wardrobe they choose. The latter would be a personal attack, not the former, a point that many here seem to miss. Disagreement with a position based on a track record is not "trolling" or cause to be canceled. That is a basic principle of what our society is based upon. Sadly, cancel culture is evident and seemingly growing of late, with evidence of it seen here and elsewhere online.
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  #88  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2020, 4:41 PM
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I guess from my perspective I wonder why the municipality itself would get involved in the political messaging. The city has areas available for protests like the Grand Parade and it doesn't bother me people assemble there as private citizens to protest or promote issues of the day. The city has also taken on its own local historical issues like the Cornwallis renaming or Viola Desmond commemoration or Black History Month observance. To me, imported political slogans take away from more articulate discussion of the nuts and bolts of local issues. An example would be the local housing market which I am sure has a big impact on people of all racial backgrounds.

If some people think "black lives matter" is purely a politically neutral statement of support for black people then I guess I'll agree to disagree with them. Though variable standards in sensitivity toward naming, exquisitely politically sensitive in some cases but not others, are a bit suspicious.
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  #89  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2020, 11:45 PM
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The Halifax Regional Municipality’s returning officer has officially closed the books on the 2020 municipal and Conseil scolaire acadien provincial (CSAP) elections.

At the conclusion of this process the returning officer is now able to report the candidates with the most total votes:

Mayor: Mike Savage (102,735 votes)

District 1: Cathy Deagle-Gammon (3062 votes)

District 2: David Hendsbee (4379 votes)

District 3: Becky Kent (4309 votes)

District 4: Trish Purdy (1634 votes)

District 5: Sam Austin (7769 votes)

District 6: Tony Mancini (5637 votes)

District 7: Waye Mason (3728 votes)

District 8: Lindell Smith (5779 votes)

District 9: Shawn Cleary (3880 votes)

District 10: Kathryn Morse (1924 votes)

District 11: Patty Cuttell (1662 votes)

District 12: Iona Stoddard (3074 votes)

District 13: Pam Lovelace (3444 votes)

District 14: Lisa Blackburn (4898 votes)

District 15: Paul Russell (2901 votes)

District 16: Tim Outhit (acclaimed)
It's easy to tell which three ridings had the large slate of candidates running this election. Considering all of the ridings are roughly the same size it appears Councillor Austin had the most definitive support by a large margin (2'000 votes) outside of Councillor Outhit's acclamation.
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