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  #61  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2009, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by markk View Post
I can't help but think that with some innovative thinking this under-used part of the core could add to the uniqueness of our city
I'm completely with you on that. Here's an article I wrote four years ago (has it been that long!?) with a few ideas for King West/Jackson Square:

http://raisethehammer.org/article/101
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  #62  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2009, 6:58 PM
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maybe organize a flower planting for this area.
Go for it!
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  #63  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2009, 8:40 PM
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Anyone know what's going on in the space besides Coco?
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  #64  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2009, 7:59 PM
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It's our city's biggest secret;

The rooftop of Jackson Square is a great place when it's busy
June 24, 2009
Paul Wilson
The Hamilton Spectator
(Jun 24, 2009)

It is downtown Hamilton's secret park and it's a big one. Bigger than that postage stamp they call Gore Park.

This secret park can hold thousands with ease, but hardly ever gets the chance.

Last Friday, however, this lonely place saw a crowd. About 3,500 filed onto the rooftop of Jackson Square to shout out loud that it's time Hamilton got an NHL team.

A chopper shot the big picture. A phalanx of TV cameras captured the action up close.

But on the street below, not the faintest hint of the frenzy above.

And that's the issue with the Jackson Square plaza. It's right in the middle of the core, but not part of it.

The space is vast, stretching from Bay to James, King to York. Superblock, they once called it.

And long ago, city planners believed this elevated plain would always bustle like it did last Friday.

It was the 1970s and floating about was a planning concept called the 'Plus-15 pedestrian circulation system.' It was brought on by, what else, the automobile.

The idea was that cars could have the ground level, roaring about without interruption from pedestrians.

Citizens on foot would be out of the way, 15 feet above, on plazas with cafes, shops, rest areas. These areas would be linked by a network of bridges.

There were to be 10 such bridges in downtown Hamilton. For instance, a couple across Main: one from the Art Gallery plaza to city hall, another from the Pigott Building to the old Bank of Montreal.

And a couple to Gore Park: one from Jackson Square, another from the Convention Centre.

New construction was supposed to reflect this plan, which is why the main entrance to the Art Gallery ended up on the second floor, where no one could find it.

As it turned out, Hamilton had neither the money nor the stomach for a full Plus-15 plan.

By the early 1990s, the city's planning department began to fear Plus-15 was misguided. Plucking people from the streets would just make downtown Hamilton more barren than it already was.

But the rooftop plaza of Jackson Square was already there. Thousands upon thousands of interlocking bricks had been laid, sod unrolled, trees planted.

And all that has been the domain of Yale Properties, owners of Jackson Square, since the mall opened in 1972.

Vivien Johnson, mall manager, has been around from the beginning. And last Friday, she stood on a rooftop over the offices of Tripcentral.ca and looked out to the hockey rally. She had never seen so many there.

"When people get up here for the first time and see the trees and grass and flowers and fountain, they're always amazed," Johnson says.

So why don't more people use this place? "It's a level up from the street," she says. "You can't see it."

The big plaza is a major maintenance item for the mall. There is cleaning, lawn maintenance, repair of leaks, graffiti removal, removal of the odd swimmer from the pool.

Through the decades, Johnson says, they have tried their best to get people to climb those stairs.

Long ago, the World Arm Wrestling Championships were held on the plaza. When it was the rage, Levi-Strauss held jean-painting contests up there. And when there were still record stores in the mall, A & A brought bands to play there. During the world bike championships six years ago, art was made and sold there.

Liaison College is holding barbecue classes on the plaza. And there are 5,000 people working on Superblock -- sometimes there are staff picnics on the plaza.

In summer, there's a concert series. Urban theatre too.

And next week, the Sheraton will be host hotel for the Latvian Song Festival of Canada. Arrangements have been made for the event to spill out onto the plaza.

But it's all fleeting. When summer goes, the plaza falls dormant again.

For most of the year, there's just no good reason to be there. The people are where they were meant to be, 15 feet below.

StreetBeat appears Monday. Wednesday and Friday

pwilson@thespec.com

905-526-3391

It was the 1970s and floating about was a planning concept called the 'Plus-15 pedestrian circulation system.' ... Citizens on foot would be out of the way, 15 feet above, on plazas with cafes, shops, rest areas. These areas would be linked by a network of bridges.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2009, 9:51 PM
markbarbera markbarbera is offline
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This plaza would be perfect to host a summertime festival of some flavour. Maybe a concert series. There was Shakespeake performances up here a while back.

Why not set up county-fair style amusements for a couple weeks? How about an outdoor book festival? Local food festival? Open air market once a week? Lots of possibilities.
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  #66  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2009, 10:35 PM
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How about a skating rink in the winter? Add nice lighting like the nathan philips square and people 15ft. below will notice and be curious to find out what's happening up there and more !
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  #67  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2009, 11:58 PM
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Shame they can't just bulldoze JS and start again.

However, I must endeavour to go up the stairs and see the roof terrace.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2009, 12:25 AM
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'Plus-15 pedestrian circulation system.'
pretty typical demonstration on how they marginalized pedestrians in those days.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2009, 3:11 AM
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Originally Posted by omro View Post
Shame they can't just bulldoze JS and start again.
Shame they can't just unbulldoze the beautiful commercial blocks, street walls, open air market and victorian city hall building that were there in the first place
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  #70  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2009, 3:17 AM
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I know, wtf were they thinking?!
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  #71  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2009, 3:39 AM
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During the last art crawl me, astroblaster and drpgq were on the jackson square roof as the Artopia show was winding down around midnight. In a space normally deserted or filled with punks, we looked over King and James with dj music pumping and people milling about. It was an unusual juxtaposition of nightlife seemingly transplanted from Toronto or Montreal with the backdrop of the glass CIBC towers, One James and Gore Park. Maybe it was the alcohol, but I thought for minute I had seen a glimpse of redemption for this woeful expression of 1970's antiurban megalomania. Now, how to make that happen more than once a year?
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  #72  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2009, 4:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon Dalton View Post
During the last art crawl me, astroblaster and drpgq were on the jackson square roof as the Artopia show was winding down around midnight. In a space normally deserted or filled with punks, we looked over King and James with dj music pumping and people milling about. It was an unusual juxtaposition of nightlife seemingly transplanted from Toronto or Montreal with the backdrop of the glass CIBC towers, One James and Gore Park. Maybe it was the alcohol, but I thought for minute I had seen a glimpse of redemption for this woeful expression of 1970's antiurban megalomania. Now, how to make that happen more than once a year?
Well perhaps an open air bar? with music? That's the summer months anyway.

I had wanted to see the Artopia, but I had to get up early the next day :-(

I do like these Art Crawl/SSP get togethers, hope more people from the forum come along to the next one.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2009, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon Dalton View Post
During the last art crawl me, astroblaster and drpgq were on the jackson square roof as the Artopia show was winding down around midnight. In a space normally deserted or filled with punks, we looked over King and James with dj music pumping and people milling about. It was an unusual juxtaposition of nightlife seemingly transplanted from Toronto or Montreal with the backdrop of the glass CIBC towers, One James and Gore Park. Maybe it was the alcohol, but I thought for minute I had seen a glimpse of redemption for this woeful expression of 1970's antiurban megalomania. Now, how to make that happen more than once a year?
Sounds like one of those happy combos of alcohol/atmosphere/mindfulness.

We attended one of the Shakespeare plays back in the day. The atmosphere was wonderful, but the play was so horrifically bad my eyes are bleeding just thinking about it. If they put some good summer theatre up there, it could be wonderful.
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  #74  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2009, 1:03 PM
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Also, I kinda like JS. It's a shame when you think about what was lost, but now that we have JS, I think we should make the best of it. It's actually a handsome building. If you look at it from King William, where it meets the HCC, you can see that it is an honest International Style building. Unlike the HCC which is a dishonest piece of PoMo shite. If anything should be levelled, it's the HCC.
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  #75  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2009, 1:37 PM
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Originally Posted by omro View Post
I know, wtf were they thinking?!
Pardon My Lunch Bucket author David Proulx tells us they thought they were "cutting away the rot of the Victorian age." In its place:

Quote:
the 26-story [sic] Stelco Tower, rising 330 feet, a four-storey banking pavilion, an enclosed shopping concourse, a two-acre landscaped plaza, two movie theatres with a total of 1,200 seats and underground parking for more than 250 cars... followed by ... a major shopping centre, an addition to the shopping concourse, a 24-storey office tower, a 400-500-room hotel, a department store extension, five apartment towers with 800 units, more underground parking and an enlarged plaza.

Added to that will be the city's $10,000,000 theatre-auditorium ... a trade-convention centre, new art gallery, new main library and new farmers' market. Pedestrians will cross over major streets on elevated walk ways, high above the noise and fumes of traffic while most of the projects will be interconnected by underground and concourse level walkways. [empasis added] (David Proulx, Pardon My Lunch Bucket, Corporation of the City of Hamilton, 1971)
Proulx's shiny future is our grim present. His "two-acre landscaped plaza" ranks among the blandest destinations in Hamilton. There is nothing to see on the Jackson Square Plaza: no compelling architecture, no art, no storefronts, no cafés. Aside from smokers and the occasional free concert, the Plaza is an urban dead zone.
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  #76  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2009, 1:47 PM
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You could add Taj Mahal to the roof and still people won't know it's up there. Everything up there is taken away from the street.

Should just close it up and add skylights. Focus at King William and Rebecca for an urban plaza, it's only been on the planning book for 10 years or so.
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  #77  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2009, 2:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ryan_mcgreal View Post
Proulx's shiny future is our grim present. His "two-acre landscaped plaza" ranks among the blandest destinations in Hamilton. There is nothing to see on the Jackson Square Plaza: no compelling architecture, no art, no storefronts, no cafés. Aside from smokers and the occasional free concert, the Plaza is an urban dead zone.
Is there anyway to add these missing items? To some how create shopping and cafés on this level?

Alternately, how about losing the plaza? Taking it up, so the roof is removed from the floors below, allowing the dark JS shopping below to be given natural light and the ability to be built upwards into a two floor modern shopping centre with bigger, brighter and better units?
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  #78  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2009, 2:45 PM
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Good article and discussion on the JS rooftop. I'm pretty interested in this area of the city due to the proximity of where I work (my office peers down on this space).

My thought is that every city tends to have planning mistakes, and this is certainly a big one for Hamilton. The suggestions above are good ones, but has Yale properties ever even hinted at changes or reno's ? ... I wonder if they are happy with letting the roof sit as is, rather than spend any money to improve our downtown.

One vision I have for the JS roof, hinges on getting a hockey team. Should this ever happen, the roof could be become a decent space for pre-game festivities, screening games, and other team related events.

That said, I'd be equally pleased with JS closing the roof (even just portions of it) and adding skylights and more multi-story stores.
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  #79  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2009, 2:47 PM
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Is there anyway to add these missing items? To some how create shopping and cafés on this level?
I'm sure it's possible with some imagination and commitment from Yale, but as I wrote earlier in this thread, the underlying problem is baked into the design: the JS roof today is engineered to be segregated from the pathways that people take through the city.

I don't know that the answer is to eliminate it entirely. Too often in Hamilton we try to fix problems by wiping the slate clean (cf. Jackson Square) instead of finding ways to make the existing structures work better.
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  #80  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2009, 3:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ryan_mcgreal View Post
I'm sure it's possible with some imagination and commitment from Yale, but as I wrote earlier in this thread, the underlying problem is baked into the design: the JS roof today is engineered to be segregated from the pathways that people take through the city.

I don't know that the answer is to eliminate it entirely. Too often in Hamilton we try to fix problems by wiping the slate clean (cf. Jackson Square) instead of finding ways to make the existing structures work better.
I'm still somewhat in favour of a freak meteor strike levelling the entire area from Main, Bay, York, James (somehow missing the corner Main, McNab, King, James).

However, since I'm not on great terms with God at the moment to request a good bit of fire and brimstone, that's why I suggested taking out the plaza and probably the shopping centre below and using that space as a shell to build a modern mall within. Essentially a "slot in".

How much of the shopping centre is under what is the JS Plaza and what else is under the plaza? As I understand it, the surrounding elements are free standing to a degree, so work on the plaza and beneath it would be of minimal disruption to them.

If City Mall moves back to City Hall, the JS stores could move into HCC temporarily while JS internally was being refurbished and rebuilt.
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