2018 Population Estimate of US Metropolitan Areas

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by JAYNYC

I concur. And they often fail to acknowledge that these same chain restaurants they supposedly despise tend to have a presence in the core of their own respective urban paradises (Manhattan included).

I mean sure, there are chains in cities; and there are non-chains in suburbs. I don't think it's unfair to say though that there's a positive correlation between the presence of chain retail and suburbanness (and particularly age) of a place. In most places at least that seems to be pretty obvious.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Yeah this is a good point. In fact many "upper crust" "old-growth" suburbs have an even more intense hatred of chain places than cities do.

Affluent older suburbs have lots of independents, but rural areas and exurbia have almost none.

A random highway exit in exurbia or small town America will largely have the same general chains coast-to-coast (with some minor regional variation, like Whataburger in TX or Meijer in the Midwest).

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Quick service restaurants (Chipotle, Blaze, Five Guys, Sbarro), sure we have plenty of those. But I mean more of sit down "casual dining" restaurants.

Consider this (the first four chains I can think of).

Why would you try to tell such an easily disproven lie?????

https://goo.gl/maps/qyzANJ9AG9NDmVUG9

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

Yeah, but if global warming is all its cracked up to be, won't cities like Phoenix and Las Vegas have 125 degree summer days? Chicago will be hot, but not that hot. And the winters might be more like Nashville is today. Cold, but not that cold. I see a revival of the "snow belt" cities. Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Buffalo might have the last laugh.

As far as I can tell from non politicized articles is they really have no goddamn idea what is going to happen. Global warming could mean more rain and snow meaning cooler wetter winters and summers for Arizona

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Quick service restaurants (Chipotle, Blaze, Five Guys, Sbarro), sure we have plenty of those.

how could you not include mcdonald's on that list?

i wouldn't be surprised if chicago is the most over-mcd'd city in the nation on a per capita basis.

sometimes it seems like there's a mcd's on every other block in this town.

hell, there are 8 mcd's in just the loop proper, 15+ in greater downtown.

and let's also not forget about dunkin'. holy shit!

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Why would you try to tell such an easily disproven lie?????

Not sure why this link leads you to believe there's some "easily disproven lie".

It's pretty obvious that there's a strong correlation between relative age/urbanity and relative share of chains. That doesn't mean that downtown Chicago won't have tons of chains, obviously.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Not sure why this link leads you to believe there's some "easily disproven lie".

It's pretty obvious that there's a strong correlation between relative age/urbanity and relative share of chains. That doesn't mean that downtown Chicago won't have tons of chains, obviously.

His premise is that chains are somehow a suburban thing when they are not.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Obadno

His premise is that chains are somehow a suburban thing when they are not.

he later clarified that he was talking about casual sit-down chains like chili's, TGI fridays, red lobster, olive garden, out back steakhouse, and the like.

and the city of chicago really does have a dearth of those kinds of places. but you find them in spades out in the burbs. it's kinda weird how stark the difference is.

but yes, there are plenty of fast food (mcd's, BK, DD, etc.) and fast casual (chipotle, panera, starbucks, etc.) chains in chicago, just as there are in every other american city i can think of.

the casual sit-down model really seems to eschew traditionally urban big city environments, at least in chicago's case. i wonder if the same is true for NYC, SF, boston, philly, etc. (my guess is that it is).

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

This discussion is being over thought.

I think everybody knows why people are leaving IL. It's well known. Random links saying otherwise aren't going to change reality.

Here's something to ponder, if IL were to suddenly reduce property taxes and all taxes to resemble a boom belt state would IL:
A] retain more residents than they do now
B] attract more domestic and international migrants than they do now
C] see a slight increase of natural births due to a lower tax burden along with attracting child bearing aged migrants
D] all of the above

I think the reality of the situation is very nuanced and that is reflected in the numbers. The area has surpassed all previous employment highs, has low unemployment, and has still declined in population. There’s much more at work than taxes or weather.

Illinois is home to a lot of wealthy people and they can afford to buy lavish homes in Phoenix or Florida upon retirement. Hyper-partisan posters will scream about taxes until they’re blue in the face, but Illinois is richer than ever before. Illinois has an issue with generational poverty, specifically in our black community, and that has caused all kinds of issues. Those with the ability to leave have and will likely continue to do so. Again, if Illinois didn’t have a rapidly shrinking black population, it’d be growing. Correcting that is not an easy fix.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Obadno

His premise is that chains are somehow a suburban thing when they are not.

Yeah, I was operating under the assumption that restaurants != fast food.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

Yeah, but if global warming is all its cracked up to be, won't cities like Phoenix and Las Vegas have 125 degree summer days? Chicago will be hot, but not that hot. And the winters might be more like Nashville is today. Cold, but not that cold. I see a revival of the "snow belt" cities. Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Buffalo might have the last laugh.

Generally speaking your argument is correct. The US Midwest should get milder while lots of places in the US Sun Belt face further water scarcity and desertification. It bears mentioning that changes in our climate won't be uniform. It's true that the average global temperature is forecast to increase but temperature changes range from increases of up to 8-11C in the Far North while some places might not see any significant increase.

It's why academics use the term 'climate change' instead.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

I think the reality of the situation is very nuanced and that is reflected in the numbers. The area has surpassed all previous employment highs, has low unemployment, and has still declined in population. There’s much more at work than taxes or weather.

Illinois is home to a lot of wealthy people and they can afford to buy lavish homes in Phoenix or Florida upon retirement. Hyper-partisan posters will scream about taxes until they’re blue in the face, but Illinois is richer than ever before. Illinois has an issue with generational poverty, specifically in our black community, and that has caused all kinds of issues. Those with the ability to leave have and will likely continue to do so. Again, if Illinois didn’t have a rapidly shrinking black population, it’d be growing. Correcting that is not an easy fix.

Isn't Illinois losing white people as well?

[Tom In Chicago]

Originally Posted by ungerdog

This idea that people are ditching Illinois simply because they decided it is too chilly and had a couple of bucks in their pocket is looking at the situation with blinders on.

Don't be daft. . . Chicago's winters aren't simply "chilly", they're fucking freezing! You know it, everyone knows it and any moron can see that, but it's you and others who politicize the situation. . . people from Chicago (Illinois, the midwest, wherever) retire and move to where it's warm. . . this is why Phoenix exists. . . it's warm there. . . people go where it's warm. . . the fact that warmer parts of the country have less tax burdens is not by design, but rather a consequence of their location. . . it's an added benefit to people who move there, simple as that!

Originally Posted by ungerdog

Illinois is a public policy disaster and just about everyone knows it.

It most certainly is. . . and yes. . . just about everyone knows it

Originally Posted by ungerdog

"We live in the #1 growing County in the entire country."

Neat. . .

Originally Posted by ungerdog

"I moved from the #1 most moved out of county in the entire country."

Well done. . .

Originally Posted by ungerdog

"My property taxes went from $14k per year to $2800 per year. It’s not about popularity. It’s about throwing your hard earned money down the drain, flushed into corrupt politicians pockets. I just couldn’t stomach that anymore. Not that taxes were the only factor... but they definitely played a big role."

Of course it wasn't the only factor. . . it very likely wasn't the main factor. . . but when asked, people love to talk about taxes, and how they've smartened up and stopped funding the insane political machine back wherever they came from. . .

Originally Posted by ungerdog

"If I loved it 100% I would maybe justify it but the roads are falling apart, the traffic is awful, there is insane crime, the politicians are corrupt and the weather is bitter."

Are bad roads why people are moving out of Illinois??? I'd never heard that one before, but ok. . .

Traffic is awful everywhere. . . Sun Belt cities especially. . .

To say that crime is "insane" is silly because most people aren't the victims of crime, witness crime or have any reason to worry about crime. . .

Politicians are corrupt everywhere. . .

The weather is bitter, but it's much more noble and heroic to suggest you left Illinois because you got tired of dodging bullets and paying for someone elses welfare. . .

Originally Posted by ungerdog

I realized when my kids spent 8 straight months inside staring at a screen or at an indoor bounce place that it was not ok for suitable human life.

Right. . . because it's cold out. . . and you were too ill prepared to do out doors activities with your children, but rather let them play video games all day? Bravo!

Originally Posted by ungerdog

"At the end of the day “in Chicago... you don’t get what ya pay for” The only thing missing is good Italian beef, real gyros and take out Chinese and that’s not worth 14k."

Anyone who laments missing out on Chicago's famous "take out Chinese" and fails to mention pizza is not from Chicago. . .

. . .

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Generally speaking your argument is correct. The US Midwest should get milder while lots of places in the US Sun Belt face further water scarcity and desertification. It bears mentioning that changes in our climate won't be uniform. It's true that the average global temperature is forecast to increase but temperature changes range from increases of up to 8C in the Far North while some places might not see any significant increase.

It's why academics use the term 'climate change' instead.

Yes its kind of frustrating when the reality of climate change is "We dont really know what will happen", and "we dont really know if it can be stopped" and then people just run with whatever narrative they want.

Higher average global temperatures does nothing to understand local climates and weather which have to do with geography and ocean currents, altitude and all sorts of other factors outside of just temperature.


Personally I will hold out for a permanent El Nino which means more rain and snow for the west

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Personally I will hold out for a permanent El Nino which means more rain and snow for the west

It would certainly help.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

Don't be daft. . . Chicago's winters aren't simply "chilly", they're fucking freezing! You know it, everyone knows it and any moron can see that, but it's you and others who politicize the situation. . . people from Chicago (Illinois, the midwest, wherever) retire and move to where it's warm. . . this is why Phoenix exists. . . it's warm there. . . people go where it's warm. . .

You realize there are lots of people who also retire up north right?

If Chicago was just too darn cold it wouldn't exist as a human settlement to begin with, it wouldn't have had insane exponential growth in the 20's and solid growth right up until 2012.

You can argue about the weather all you want but it does not single-handedly explain population trends and never will.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

Don't be daft. . . Chicago's winters aren't simply "chilly", they're fucking freezing! You know it, everyone knows it and any moron can see that, but it's you and others who politicize the situation. ..

^ I think you've made your point, but I just don't agree that weather is the most important issue, no matter how many times you insist on it.

We already know that there are cold weather cities that are growing in population.

In addition, there are a lot of other well-documented factors behind why people have been leaving Chicagoland. They aren't all the same, of course. Some are the taxes, some due to job/career issues, some due to anger about the local politics, some due to fears about the pension crisis, some due to the 2 year budget stalemate that failed to fund the Universities and social programs, and most are due to a combination of these.

But insisting that it's the weather just doesn't persuade many here, including myself.

[JAYNYC]

Originally Posted by The North One

You realize there are lots of people who also retire up north right?

If Chicago was just too darn cold it wouldn't exist as a human settlement to begin with, it wouldn't have had insane exponential growth in the 20's and solid growth right up until 2012.

You can argue about the weather all you want but it does not single-handedly explain population trends and never will.

Although I agree with you 100%, something tells me your response will go in one of that dude's ears and right out of the other.

[JAYNYC]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ I think you've made your point, but I just don't agree that weather is the most important issue, no matter how many times you insist on it.

We already know that there are cold weather cities that are growing in population.

In addition, there are a lot of other well-documented factors behind why people have been leaving Chicagoland. They aren't all the same, of course. Some are the taxes, some due to job/career issues, some due to anger about the local politics, some due to fears about the pension crisis, some due to the 2 year budget stalemate that failed to fund the Universities and social programs, and most are due to a combination of these.

But insisting that it's the weather just doesn't persuade many here, including myself.

Me either, but that dude categorically denies that there is any other factor.

[Tom In Chicago]

Originally Posted by The North One

You realize there are lots of people who also retire up north right?

If Chicago was just too darn cold it wouldn't exist as a human settlement to begin with, it wouldn't have had insane exponential growth in the 20's and solid growth right up until 2012.

Sure people have summer lake houses up north but noone retires in Chicago. . .

Originally Posted by the urban politician

We already know that there are cold weather cities that are growing in population.

Not in any meaningful numbers. . .

Originally Posted by JAYNYC

Although I agree with you 100%, something tells me your response will go in one of that dude's ears and right out of the other.

Originally Posted by JAYNYC

Me either, but that dude categorically denies that there is any other factor.

Two vacuous responses to the same post. . . and noone calls people "dude" anymore, grow up. . .

. . .