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  #13921  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 8:30 PM
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summersm343 summersm343 is offline
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Mixed-income housing project divides Baptist church and East Oak Lane neighborhood

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  #13922  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 10:59 AM
cardeza cardeza is offline
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Mixed-income housing project divides Baptist church and East Oak Lane neighborhood

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Thanks for posting. I have seen the signs near my mom's house but had no idea what "hi rise" they were talking about. The opposition seems a bit much to me. The opponents sound out of touch.
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  #13923  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 2:32 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by cardeza View Post
Thanks for posting. I have seen the signs near my mom's house but had no idea what "hi rise" they were talking about. The opposition seems a bit much to me. The opponents sound out of touch.
The opposition does seem a bit much but the neighbors are right to complain about it.

The pastor says it will looks just like (paraphrasing), "this school, that school, and the fire house" as he holds up a picture with cheap brick veneer and aluminum windows.

It's gonna look like $5 schlock in a neighborhood full of beautiful field stone houses. They're right to be annoyed.
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  #13924  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 2:49 PM
cardeza cardeza is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
The opposition does seem a bit much but the neighbors are right to complain about it.

The pastor says it will looks just like (paraphrasing), "this school, that school, and the fire house" as he holds up a picture with cheap brick veneer and aluminum windows.

It's gonna look like $5 schlock in a neighborhood full of beautiful field stone houses. They're right to be annoyed.
not only does EOL have twins and rowhouses, many of the large singles are falling apart. This isnt chestnut hill and I find the opponents commentary laughable. This will ruin the neighborhood but the crumbling porches and facades on many of the formally grand homes are ok.....
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  #13925  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2020, 1:04 PM
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  #13926  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2020, 5:05 PM
eixample eixample is offline
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The NYT published a great piece the other day imagining and visualizing a Manhattan without private cars that prioritizes people - incorporating larger sidewalks, bus-only lanes, bike-only lanes, and many other features. It's a really beautiful piece to look at so I recommend checking it out. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/o...an-cities.html

Center City is very far from banning private cars and would never be the first to do it. But we could go a long way towards minimizing private car use without hurting the city as a business and residential space (in fact, it would be a much better city for residents and tourists). Since I spend a lot of my time imagining a futuristic car-lite Center City, here is an incomplete list of things that the city could do in the next few years and in the intermediate future (say the next 5 to 20 years) to transition to a Center City where private cars are the exception rather than the norm for transport. Some of these ideas could and should be extended to other city neighborhoods. These plans should all be coupled with transit improvements like a greatly improved regional rail network, but that is a whole other issue.

Things we could do in the immediate future to chip away at private car usage in Center City:
- Ticket cars stopped in existing bike lanes and protect all existing bike lanes (with a row of parked cars or plastic bollards)
- Place forward facing cameras on all SEPTA buses to catch double parked cars
- Reduce speed limits on all Center City streets to 20 mph with all side streets 10 mph
- Start installing speeding camera and stop sign enforcement cameras in Center City (we already have a few red light cameras)
- Encourage restaurants to move their outdoor dining areas to "parklets" in parking spaces rather than on crowded sidewalks
- Institute new parking requirements on all Center City streets that require each space to be moved at least once per week (for loading zones and other purposes). We need a lot more loading zones anyway, but we need to make car ownership more of a pain. No more long-term car storage on public property in Center City.

Things we could do in the next 5 to 20 years to greatly reduce private car usage
- Build a complete protected bike lane network with multiple East-West (add at least one north of Market to complement Pine/Spruce) and North-South (two east of Broad, two west of Broad) lanes
- Make Chestnut a two-way bus only street with exceptions only for emergency vehicles and commercial deliveries. All existing parking on Chestnut would be reserved for delivery vehicles. Where private car usage is necessary (i.e. for existing parking garages), the cars should only be allowed to travel for one block on Chestnut before turning on to another street
- Close Sansom in certain areas to a pedestrian only street.
- Add a bus-only lane on Market going in both directions (and on JFK if necessary to complete the circuit)
- Add a bus-only lane on all North-South routes that go through center city. If car usage reduces enough for other reasons, this might not be necessary on every single route.
- Move all trash/recycling collection in Center City to on-street built-in bins (there is a visualization of this in the NYT article). This is done in some European cities and would help a lot to create more sidewalk space. The bins would also double as public trash cans. NYC needs this desperately but this would make things easier here and likely would make trash pick-up cheaper in the long run.
- Create a wide network of cameras to catch traffic violations, including cars driving where they aren't supposed to.
- Institute a congestion tax on people driving in Center City through on-street camera monitoring at, say, the area between Vine and South. I think this could be done in a way where you get a few free trips per month to make it a little more fair for people who come in for doctor's appointments and such.

Anyway, these are just a few of my ideas. Feel free to comment or add more.
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  #13927  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2020, 6:37 PM
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Philadelphia is a city of narrow streets. We need to get all existing traffic off of the streets, and that includes busses.

Build out our subway system to what it was supposed to be.
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  #13928  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2020, 7:40 PM
eixample eixample is offline
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Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
Philadelphia is a city of narrow streets. We need to get all existing traffic off of the streets, and that includes busses.

Build out our subway system to what it was supposed to be.
New subways would be great but I just can't see that practically happening, at least in center city. The narrow streets mean it is really annoying to build subways too. I think we could do a lot with sped up buses (see bus only lanes). Also we could do a lot with more frequent and reliable circumferential bus routes (routes that run more or less perpendicular to the subway/el, like the 79 bus on Snyder Avenue, the 15 trolley on Girard or the 52 bus on 52nd street). Now that we've gotten rid of transfers, those will become more useful.
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  #13929  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2020, 1:42 AM
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If Locust can support a subway, so can Passyunk.
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  #13930  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2020, 12:13 PM
reparcsyks reparcsyks is online now
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Originally Posted by eixample View Post
The NYT published a great piece the other day imagining and visualizing a Manhattan without private cars that prioritizes people - incorporating larger sidewalks, bus-only lanes, bike-only lanes, and many other features. It's a really beautiful piece to look at so I recommend checking it out. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/o...an-cities.html

Anyway, these are just a few of my ideas. Feel free to comment or add more.
I’m down with all of this, the sooner the better. The problem, as you either know or haven’t lived here long enough to find out, is that our city government and the entrenched political machine that supports it, is chock-full of the most provincial, small-minded, corrupt people. And even if they weren’t simpletons on the take, they lack any imagination to visualize the potential of this city. Once NYC, Seattle, SF, Boston, etc implement this kind of urban change, then we’ll start seeing it here. And it’ll be an f’d up version of it, kind of like how SEPTA botched the Key.

If I sound down on Philly, I’m not. I do love it here. It has an incredible minority of great minds and artists — it’s just that people who think like us are continuously pushing a boulder up a hill to try and push this city forward out of the Bronze Age.
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  #13931  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2020, 1:52 PM
eixample eixample is offline
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Originally Posted by reparcsyks View Post
I’m down with all of this, the sooner the better. The problem, as you either know or haven’t lived here long enough to find out, is that our city government and the entrenched political machine that supports it, is chock-full of the most provincial, small-minded, corrupt people. And even if they weren’t simpletons on the take, they lack any imagination to visualize the potential of this city. Once NYC, Seattle, SF, Boston, etc implement this kind of urban change, then we’ll start seeing it here. And it’ll be an f’d up version of it, kind of like how SEPTA botched the Key.

If I sound down on Philly, I’m not. I do love it here. It has an incredible minority of great minds and artists — it’s just that people who think like us are continuously pushing a boulder up a hill to try and push this city forward out of the Bronze Age.
You're right about all this. I do think Philly will follow rather than lead on these issues, if not for any other reason than that our city government is so constantly cash strapped that the basic city government things seem like far off fantasies (street sweeping). But there seems to me like a global wave of progress on these issues that is building, Paris is probably the best example, that will eventually reach our shores. I am hopeful that an outside the box next mayor could push us a little more in an advanced direction. That could be Gym or Domb or Reinhart, I don't know - I'm not sure about any of them.
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  #13932  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2020, 6:01 PM
reparcsyks reparcsyks is online now
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Originally Posted by eixample View Post
You're right about all this. I do think Philly will follow rather than lead on these issues, if not for any other reason than that our city government is so constantly cash strapped that the basic city government things seem like far off fantasies (street sweeping). But there seems to me like a global wave of progress on these issues that is building, Paris is probably the best example, that will eventually reach our shores. I am hopeful that an outside the box next mayor could push us a little more in an advanced direction. That could be Gym or Domb or Reinhart, I don't know - I'm not sure about any of them.
What we really need is an out-of-the-box Council President as well. And yes, the city is cash-strapped, but I am 99% positive we waste tons of money because of corruption and the fact that our city government is stuck in 1950.
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  #13933  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2020, 6:57 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by cardeza View Post
not only does EOL have twins and rowhouses, many of the large singles are falling apart. This isnt chestnut hill and I find the opponents commentary laughable. This will ruin the neighborhood but the crumbling porches and facades on many of the formally grand homes are ok.....
I don't disagree. But you could have said the same thing about Germantown 5 years ago and now houses are selling for $500K plus, particularly in SW Germantown closest to Mount Airy.

People are gut renovating mansions on Tupelhocken, Washington, and Walnut Lanes in Germantown.

I also have been in some of those big old houses in East Oak Lane over the years. While overall there is neglect in the neighborhood, I'd say mostly because people don't make enough to maintain those huge houses...there are also a good number of people quietly going about improving the place and renovating their homes.

There aren't many neighborhoods like East Oak Lane in Philadelphia. I think it deserves special attention if only to help it hold on until the time comes that people are ready to re-invest there. That time will come and in the meantime, let's not screw the place up.
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  #13934  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2020, 7:01 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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New subways would be great but I just can't see that practically happening, at least in center city. The narrow streets mean it is really annoying to build subways too. I think we could do a lot with sped up buses (see bus only lanes). Also we could do a lot with more frequent and reliable circumferential bus routes (routes that run more or less perpendicular to the subway/el, like the 79 bus on Snyder Avenue, the 15 trolley on Girard or the 52 bus on 52nd street). Now that we've gotten rid of transfers, those will become more useful.
I think it would be so cool to have a circle line in Philadelphia on the wider streets bookending Center City. Something that ran down Washington, up Delaware Avenue to Girard, Girard to somewhere in West Philly (40th Street?) back down to Washington. It would connect (obviously) where it intersects with the existing lines.
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  #13935  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2020, 7:26 PM
allovertown allovertown is online now
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Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
If Locust can support a subway, so can Passyunk.
It's not a question of whether or not passyunk can support a subway line. (It could.) It's that the narrow width of the street would make building a line there more of challenge and thus, more costly.

It's hard to imagine a new subway line in Philadelphia being built in even the next half century, regardless of where you build it. Trying to squeeze the subway onto a narrow street like passyunk just adds to the cost and reduces the probability even lower.
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  #13936  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2020, 8:19 PM
TonyTone TonyTone is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
I think it would be so cool to have a circle line in Philadelphia on the wider streets bookending Center City. Something that ran down Washington, up Delaware Avenue to Girard, Girard to somewhere in West Philly (40th Street?) back down to Washington. It would connect (obviously) where it intersects with the existing lines.
We had an overhead line that ran on Washington I think in the 1900's.

It was dismantled and melted down for WWI, I think don't quote me on that.

We also had a line on front st that was dismantled as well.

We also had a china town line that was abandoned because septa didn't care of it to the point it was moving when trains went by.

As well as the proposals for all around the city and Northeast.

I'm shocked we still have trolleys in Philly.

If we want to see new subway lines in Philly we need to bug the council & the state of Pa to add funding or pass a bill to do this, until then we still are on a maybe about the trolley upgrades and new trolleys that are supposed to happen in the next 5 years.
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  #13937  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2020, 12:15 AM
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We had an overhead line that ran on Washington I think in the 1900's.

It was dismantled and melted down for WWI, I think don't quote me on that.
Nope, that never existed. BUT the City archive has a photo-illustration dated 1917 of a hypothetical bridge that would have presumably carried the Washington Avenue PRR freight tracks across Broad St (in reality they crossed Broad at grade until their demise decades later).

You can see the photo-illustration of the non-existent bridge here: https://www.phillyhistory.org/PhotoA...x?assetId=8357
Description
Looking North on Broad Street - View from Point South of Washington Avenue.

Notes
Public Works 13831-0 is the same image as Public Works 13770-0. However, Public Works 13831-0 also contains a sketch of a bridge in the middle of the photograph. This bridge did not actually exist at the intersection of Washington Avenue and Broad Street in 1917. The date on this photograph is May 14, 1917. The date was confirmed by examining the original negative.
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S Broad St and Washington Ave
Date 5/14/1917
Collection DOR Archives
Collection ID Public Works-13831-0-
Asset ID 8357
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We also had a china town line that was abandoned because septa didn't care of it to the point it was moving when trains went by.
Nope. You may be thinking of the two approx. 1-block segments of an Arch St subway that were constructed between about 10th and 13th St That subway was never completed.
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  #13938  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2020, 2:29 AM
TonyTone TonyTone is offline
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Nope, that never existed. BUT the City archive has a photo-illustration dated 1917 of a hypothetical bridge that would have presumably carried the Washington Avenue PRR freight tracks across Broad St (in reality they crossed Broad at grade until their demise decades later).

You can see the photo-illustration of the non-existent bridge here: https://www.phillyhistory.org/PhotoA...x?assetId=8357
Description
Looking North on Broad Street - View from Point South of Washington Avenue.

Notes
Public Works 13831-0 is the same image as Public Works 13770-0. However, Public Works 13831-0 also contains a sketch of a bridge in the middle of the photograph. This bridge did not actually exist at the intersection of Washington Avenue and Broad Street in 1917. The date on this photograph is May 14, 1917. The date was confirmed by examining the original negative.
Address

S Broad St and Washington Ave
Date 5/14/1917
Collection DOR Archives
Collection ID Public Works-13831-0-
Asset ID 8357
Nope. You may be thinking of the two approx. 1-block segments of an Arch St subway that were constructed between about 10th and 13th St That subway was never completed.

You sure Washington Ave never had an overhead line ?

Also where the rail park is definitely had trains running over it, that is the bridge im talking about & the last train over it was in 1984.

the arch st line technically is built & they could do something with it... but hey at least they are doing something with the station in front of the Police HQ
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  #13939  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2020, 4:20 AM
Nanyika Nanyika is offline
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Jayfar is correct that there was never an elevated line on Washington Avenue, although the surface railroad on the avenue did carry passengers during the 19th century. There was an elevated line on S. Delaware Avenue, which was discontinued in 1939. The elevated line on Front Street above Market was indeed demolished, as TonyTone points out, but the line was merely relocated to the center of the I-95 expressway.

One subway line that was unfortunately dismantled involved the connection between the Broad-Ridge Spur and the Locust Street Subway (now PATCO). I think a resumption of that connection as part of the SEPTA system, especially with a new station at Rittenhouse Square, would help to alleviate the congestion on crosstown buses -- which was getting unbearable before the pandemic.

I don't think that "narrow streets" are a major obstruction to building subways. London also has narrow (and very crooked) streets, but the subway system is generally deep underground. It is ironic that much poorer countries, like Egypt and India, are able to build extensive subway systems, but the United States claims that it can no longer "afford" to significantly aid the cities in capital transit improvements. In reality, the U.S. federal government has enough funds to finance major extensions of the country's transit systems, but spending on the military and wars is its priority.
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  #13940  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2020, 1:59 PM
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PATCO at a minimum should be extended to Penn Medicine station
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