Cities with nice culture/universities etc that also offer cheap housing & living cos

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

The immigrants probably settle in Lisbon and the south. Are there better bargains in the north, say Oporto? Typical monthly rent on a studio or 1BR? Under $800? Less?

Actually Porto gets lots of immigrants as well. It’s as popular as Lisbon. The country is those two cities. South is more a British thing I guess.

[dc_denizen]

Hard to argue with Pittsburgh

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4614...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4409...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4288...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4401...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4716...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4536...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4380...7i16384!8i8192

[202_Cyclist]

Baltimore and Richmond also have significantly lower costs of living than other cities on the East Coast.

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Baltimore and Richmond also have significantly lower costs of living than other cities on the East Coast.

Richmond seems ok but is there anything to recommend it outside of downtown and the Fan district ? (admittedly these are great mid atlantic streetscapes)

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5514...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5453...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5331...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5242...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5340...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5538...7i16384!8i8192

but this looks like charmless loundon county VA next to DC

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ri...!4d-77.4360481

[CaliNative]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Baltimore and Richmond also have significantly lower costs of living than other cities on the East Coast.

How are crime levels in Baltimore? Is it a safe city to live in? Richmond?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

How are crime levels in Baltimore? Is it a safe city to live in? Richmond?

Both Baltimore and Richmond city propers are among the most violent U.S. cities, but obviously the vast majority of people live in the burbs, and those are low crime. Baltimore is a very prosperous metro, Richmond slightly less so, but both are fairly desirable.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

How are crime levels in Baltimore? Is it a safe city to live in? Richmond?

I love Baltimore, but a safe city it is not and it has a lot of issues and the current leadership is abysmal. I haven't been to Richmond in years but it still has a high crime rate.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

I love Baltimore, but a safe city it is not and it has a lot of issues and the current leadership is abysmal. I haven't been to Richmond in years but it still has a high crime rate.

Right, but again, this is just a function of municipal boundaries. Baltimore isn't higher crime than Atlanta or Charlotte or Nashville. The difference is that Baltimore has tightly drawn municipal lines. The region, as a whole, isn't high crime for U.S. standards, and the vast majority of Baltimore lives outside the city proper.

[dc_denizen]

Nobody reading this forum fits the demographic that would have to be majorly concerned about crime in Baltimore or Richmond ( or DC for that matter )

You’d be better advised to worry about road safety

I don’t think we’re talking here about cheap areas in sprawly suburbs but interesting urban areas within the city limits . Baltimore city itself has huge areas that are low crime .

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

How are crime levels in Baltimore? Is it a safe city to live in? Richmond?

Safety is definitely a concern in Baltimore but there are some neighborhoods (Mount Vernon and Fells Point) where you would probably be just fine.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Richmond seems ok but is there anything to recommend it outside of downtown and the Fan district ? (admittedly these are great mid atlantic streetscapes)

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5514...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5453...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5331...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5242...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5340...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5538...7i16384!8i8192

but this looks like charmless loundon county VA next to DC

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ri...!4d-77.4360481

I think Shockoe Bottom is also a nice neighborhood. Baltimore probably has more interesting neighborhoods but I think Richmond is safer and has more competent city government.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Right, but again, this is just a function of municipal boundaries. Baltimore isn't higher crime than Atlanta or Charlotte or Nashville. The difference is that Baltimore has tightly drawn municipal lines. The region, as a whole, isn't high crime for U.S. standards, and the vast majority of Baltimore lives outside the city proper.

Baltimore does have higher crime than the places you mentioned and it's one of the most violent cities in America right now. And you need to function within some boundaries or the overall point of this thread goes away, as I could just give a small town in the middle of nowhere that is a two hour commute to a university. But is that really what is being asked here?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Baltimore does have higher crime than the places you mentioned and it's one of the most violent cities in America right now.

No, it isn't. Baltimore isn't a particularly dangerous metro. It's actually a safer-than-average metro, by U.S. standards. The city proper has a very high crime rate, but the suburbs have very low crime, and 80% of Baltimore is outside city proper. So it's inaccurate to claim that Baltimore is dangerous, in the U.S. context, unless you're specficically referring to the city proper, but in that case, you can't compare to other city propers, since the rules behind city boundaries aren't the same, so what's the point?

Again, this is people not distinguishing between nuances of data. And then when presented with the data, claim it's fake. I've had a conversation with a client in high crime Florida, and he claimed he wouldn't travel to low crime New Jersey (which has the second or third lowest crime rate of any urbanized state) bc it was too dangerous. When I asked what gave him this impression, it's bc he watched some Fox news story on Camden, and it appeared dangerous (which it is), but the guy is completely missing the point, and unable to process data.

A small city of 50k people is basically irrelevant to a state of 9-10 million people, and only a few states would even have tiny municipalities like Camden. But there are at least a dozen Camdens in Florida, they just aren't captured in the data bc the city limits are different. But they exist, all the same. They're just captured within the larger data for Tampa, West Palm, or wherever. In NJ, Tampa or West Palm would be (say) eight different towns, and two of them would be "Camden".

[dc_denizen]

yes but were talking about living in the city not the suburbs

[dc_denizen]

Baltimore in city areas

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3034...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2878...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2766...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2835...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2803...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2867...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3312...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ne...!4d-76.5856251

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2902...7i16384!8i8192

[Kngkyle]

As someone else mentioned I think Portugal is the best all-around with good weather, low cost of living, great culture, and close proximity to the entirety of Europe. It's the California of Europe without the cost and car culture.

Within the US it's a bit harder... I feel there is no single place that checks all boxes. I think Chicago (and probably Philly) checks all boxes but only for ~8 months of the year. So you need to find a warmer city for the remaining ~4 months of the year. For me personally Chicago is "home base" but with the low COL I can afford to hop on a flight to someplace warm anytime I want.

[MolsonExport]

Montreal.
The rents have gone up but it is still much cheaper than other big Canadian cities, and as far as things to do, combined with great universities, it is hard to beat. The weather is shitty for half the year, mind you.

[Omaharocks]

^ Yeah, Montreal is what came to mind first for me.

It really depends a lot on what exactly you're looking for, and I agree it's near impossible to find a place that checks all boxes AND is affordable, in the U.S. or Canada at least.

You're just going to be making tradeoffs - Chicago is a fantastic bang/buck for quality urban environment, but the climate isn't the best and outdoor access isn't what you'd get out west.

Places like Tucson and Albuquerque offer a good deal if focused more on outdoor access and scenery, but are limited in terms of walkability.

Montreal comes really close to checking all boxes, and has pretty surrounding scenery, but the winters are long, and the primary language is French, which limits the number of people able/willing to make the move. But if you are open to or able to speak French and can deal with the cold, hard to beat Montreal.

Outside North America, I agree with Lisbon, but also Athens, which is hotter than Lisbon but offers more of the classic mediterranean beach access with all the Greek Islands, etc. Both places are essentially walkable, urban, historic California, without the cost of California.

[Chef]

Philly, Chicago and the Twin Cities probably give you the best combination of cost of living and quality of life.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by Crawford

No, it isn't. Baltimore isn't a particularly dangerous metro. It's actually a safer-than-average metro, by U.S. standards. The city proper has a very high crime rate, but the suburbs have very low crime, and 80% of Baltimore is outside city proper. So it's inaccurate to claim that Baltimore is dangerous, in the U.S. context, unless you're specficically referring to the city proper, but in that case, you can't compare to other city propers, since the rules behind city boundaries aren't the same, so what's the point?

Again, this is people not distinguishing between nuances of data. And then when presented with the data, claim it's fake. I've had a conversation with a client in high crime Florida, and he claimed he wouldn't travel to low crime New Jersey (which has the second or third lowest crime rate of any urbanized state) bc it was too dangerous. When I asked what gave him this impression, it's bc he watched some Fox news story on Camden, and it appeared dangerous (which it is), but the guy is completely missing the point, and unable to process data.

A small city of 50k people is basically irrelevant to a state of 9-10 million people, and only a few states would even have tiny municipalities like Camden. But there are at least a dozen Camdens in Florida, they just aren't captured in the data bc the city limits are different. But they exist, all the same. They're just captured within the larger data for Tampa, West Palm, or wherever. In NJ, Tampa or West Palm would be (say) eight different towns, and two of them would be "Camden".

People in Florida definitely downplay their crime issues. Its pretty annoying. Palm Beach county seems to have several problematic areas for being known as a "upper class" area. Orlando and Jacksonville aren't doing well this year, etc etc.