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  #61  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
Yes, I know Norristown is not a great place. But that's my point. The Philadelphia region has more than its fair share of not so great suburban towns (even though most are exemplary IMO esp compared to other metros) precisely because it's always been so cheap to leave them. The thing that will resurrect Norristown and Coatesville and Downingtown and Inner Delco will be higher home prices in the region.
Currently it is causing further decline and widening the gap even more.

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Forever in this metro people with a $100K income have thought it a god given right to live in frankly extraordinary towns that by any measure are exceptional. Well guess what. Those days are over.
They became "extraordinary" because of the affordability. Times change but prices doubling this quickly is an issue.

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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
Exactly. On top of that, part of the issue with a place like Plymouth Meeting is that its positioning as a desireable place to live is moving up the ladder.

Plymouth Meeting for years I would say has been considered an above average place, but not exceptional suburb by Philadelphia standards. It's adjacent to the Main Line, but not a part of it, so was always sort of in the shadows, and it hugs Conshohocken, which used to be a poor Milltown but is now a satellite city with it's own skyline and a odd number of fortune 500 companies. But, its extraordinarily well located (10 minutes from King of Prussia, which is Philly's second job center, 15 minutes from downtown, literally next to Conshohocken). It is at the nexus of 2 major highways (476 and the turnpike) and over time, the schools have become exceptional.

It's no longer really considered second choice, and that's starting to be reflected in housing values and new construction, which for the first time in the history of the town, includes tear downs, particularly in the Plymouth Valley neighborhood (big lots very middling rambler homes). This https://www.everyhome.com/Home/732-W...y-Pennsylvania replacing this https://www.google.com/maps/place/73...!4d-75.3049341.

This https://www.everyhome.com/Home/122-P...y-Pennsylvania replacing this https://www.google.com/maps/place/12...!4d-75.2994214

Anyway. The only knock against it is that it doesn't have transit connectivity.

In any other NE metro the entry point for Plymouth Meeting would be a million plus and the new construction homes in those links would be $1.5MM.
PM to Center City is about 20 miles so even with the traffic aside it is not a 15 min. journey. And we aren't any other NE metro but I will take being a part of that group if everything moves upwards along with it.

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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Judging by the examples in EastSideHBG's post, they are just typical suburban track homes; built by developers in the 60's and 70's, nothing fancy or out of the ordinary. One even looks like Al Bundy's house and he sold shoes.

That's the crux of the issue is anywhere there's decent schools, low crime and stable socioeconomics; the bulk of the middle class are being priced out.
Exactly. For this area this is abnormal and wasn't a part of our culture prior to now and is a game changer. I understand the, "Oh well, these are the times and this is the market now," piece of the argument (but in our case the game is a bit slanted due to all of the NYC/investor money that has been pouring in) but there are going to be some consequences with all of this.
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  #62  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by EastSideHBG View Post
Currently it is causing further decline and widening the gap even more.


They became "extraordinary" because of the affordability. Times change but prices doubling this quickly is an issue.
How are high prices in Plymouth Meeting causing further decline in Norristown?
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  #63  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 6:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
^That blog post is from 2014.

They bought a charming four bedroom century old home in an historic neighborhood a couple of miles from downtown for $50,000. Their mortgage is $300 a month. Okay, with tax and insurance it’s more like $500. And it wasn’t a fixer-upper in a slum. It’s a genuinely lovely place with amazing neighbors.

You definitely could get a move-in ready 2-bedroom or maybe a 3-bedroom back in 2014 for $50,000. I'm not so sure about a 4-bedroom, or at least a "real" 4-bedroom, not one where they call the attic a bedroom.

Today, prices are typically 3-5X what they were in 2014.
i didn't post the link to that old blogpost because of its specifics, rather, simply to demonstrate that the whole "expensive city people are now moving to less expensive cities" storyline (as though it's some brand new phenomenon or something) has become a rinse, wash, repeat stand-by of today's journailsm.
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  #64  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
If you're an immigrant, you should absolutely support immigration. It would be pretty much insane to say "yes I'm an immigrant, and I oppose immigration".

Actually, it's much simpler. Given the nature of the American experiment, where immigration is the nation's lifeblood, it's insane to be American and to oppose immigration.
Lol, I read this and could help but think of the distinguish (sarcasm) Supreme Court Judge Clearance Thomas opposition to affirmative action. He the very product of the process he now oppose.....insanity and dismissal of fact/reality has become quite a thing. I know this is off topic ,but couldn't help myself.
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  #65  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 7:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
How are high prices in Plymouth Meeting causing further decline in Norristown?
If home prices around Norristown double while theirs decrease/stay flat/only increase barely and their QOL continues to decline it further widens the wealth gap and increases the economic segregation which in turn fuels the downward slide. People are still not going into urban pioneer mode in these smaller depressed boroughs like they are in some Philly hoods so the decline continues.
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  #66  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 8:00 PM
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Obviously Norristown would eventually get price increases too, if all the surrounding communities have increasing prices.

I haven't explored Norristown, but it hardly looks like some post-apocalyptic zombie slum. Pretty sure it's salvagable.
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  #67  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 8:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Obviously Norristown would eventually get price increases too, if all the surrounding communities have increasing prices.

I haven't explored Norristown, but it hardly looks like some post-apocalyptic zombie slum. Pretty sure it's salvagable.
Compton, CA didn't look like one on the surface in the 90s either. And just about anything can be salvageable but will it be? Decades have gone by and still nada. It's unfortunate, as there's some solid bones in many of these smaller municipalities.
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  #68  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2022, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Traffic in LA is insane now. Where are these all people leaving exactly?
Traffic is insane because those are LA natives who have reached driving age. California still has healthy natural increase, so despite the fact tens of thousands move away each year (and the international immigration is now not enough to make up for that), it still showed modest growth until the last two annual estimates. The reason for that is because the out migration has accelerated.

Traffic wont get better though if a family of four using one car is replaced by a DINK couple using two cars. Thats more vehicles on the road but less people.
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  #69  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2022, 3:26 AM
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Traffic is insane because those are LA natives who have reached driving age. California still has healthy natural increase, so despite the fact tens of thousands move away each year (and the international immigration is now not enough to make up for that), it still showed modest growth until the last two annual estimates. The reason for that is because the out migration has accelerated.

Traffic wont get better though if a family of four using one car is replaced by a DINK couple using two cars. Thats more vehicles on the road but less people.
Or maybe LA and LA county is undercounted. It never challenges the Census like NYC does. And maybe many people moved back after covid was over.

It feels like traffic is worse than 2019 at the moment. It's crazy. Same for buses and trains. Just more people.
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  #70  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2022, 7:05 AM
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Or maybe LA and LA county is undercounted. It never challenges the Census like NYC does. And maybe many people moved back after covid was over.

It feels like traffic is worse than 2019 at the moment. It's crazy. Same for buses and trains. Just more people.
It really does. Also, I've always hated how our political leaders never challenged the census. We're leaving so much money on the table every year because we have morons in charge
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  #71  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2022, 10:54 PM
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One can say this is an old tale. After all, Gladys Knight and the Pips even had a song about it.

"LA... proved too much for the man... too much for the man, he couldn't make it...

"Dreams don't always come true. Uh-uh. No. Uh-uh."
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  #72  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2022, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
One can say this is an old tale. After all, Gladys Knight and the Pips even had a song about it.

"LA... proved too much for the man... too much for the man, he couldn't make it...

"Dreams don't always come true. Uh-uh. No. Uh-uh."
The good ol' days... when there was actually a train from L.A. to Georgia.
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  #73  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2022, 3:23 PM
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Or maybe LA and LA county is undercounted. It never challenges the Census like NYC does. And maybe many people moved back after covid was over.

It feels like traffic is worse than 2019 at the moment. It's crazy. Same for buses and trains. Just more people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
It really does. Also, I've always hated how our political leaders never challenged the census. We're leaving so much money on the table every year because we have morons in charge
Or it could be both. besides LA/LA County isn't alone in the undercounting thing.

and like I said, traffic can be worse if families of 4+ are being replaced by singles and DINKs. there aren't enough people to replace the family 1:1, but the car ratio is likely higher with the singles/DINKs. I know people who bought homes from families during the latest housing buy up and they don't have kids but have two cars. bring in a roommate and that's 3 cars to a house that use to only have 2 max, even though there are 3 people living in the house vs the 4-5+ before. thus the domestic out-migration but feelings of more traffic at times.

LA (and coastal CA in general) attracts more people, specifically domestically, that move out here and dont want kids or do very late. out of our friend circle we are the only ones with kids even though there are several married couples, yet in my old friend circle back home there's several couples with kids.

all we have right now is the census data to go off of, so that's what I'm using to be consistent across the board
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  #74  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2022, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
It really does. Also, I've always hated how our political leaders never challenged the census. We're leaving so much money on the table every year because we have morons in charge


I think that the politicians who managed to push for the Los Angeles metro system, now need to push the right buttons to attract commuters. There is
no point complaining about traffic issues when a big part of the solution lies in transit infrastructure, and, Los Angeles has covered a lot of ground in thirty years.
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  #75  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Trae View Post
Or it could be both. besides LA/LA County isn't alone in the undercounting thing.

and like I said, traffic can be worse if families of 4+ are being replaced by singles and DINKs. there aren't enough people to replace the family 1:1, but the car ratio is likely higher with the singles/DINKs. I know people who bought homes from families during the latest housing buy up and they don't have kids but have two cars. bring in a roommate and that's 3 cars to a house that use to only have 2 max, even though there are 3 people living in the house vs the 4-5+ before. thus the domestic out-migration but feelings of more traffic at times.

LA (and coastal CA in general) attracts more people, specifically domestically, that move out here and dont want kids or do very late. out of our friend circle we are the only ones with kids even though there are several married couples, yet in my old friend circle back home there's several couples with kids.

all we have right now is the census data to go off of, so that's what I'm using to be consistent across the board
Again, LA never challenges. Obviously it's big deal to NYC, and Chicago does i as well.

So we really don't know what the true population actually is. LA has been estimated at over 4 million for, what, 12 years now? But the census doesn't get it right, and the city/county just shrugs it off.
I'd like to see them one time what it really is.

And I told you before. It's not just traffic. The mass transit is busier, and I think surpassed the bay area for ridership. It's clear to anyone who's here it feel like more people.
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  #76  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 2:40 PM
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Again, LA never challenges. Obviously it's big deal to NYC, and Chicago does i as well.

So we really don't know what the true population actually is. LA has been estimated at over 4 million for, what, 12 years now? But the census doesn't get it right, and the city/county just shrugs it off.
I'd like to see them one time what it really is.
well LA has a reason for not challenging. what if a challenge showed less people? we already know from hard data that LA (and California in general) attract less of an immigrant share today than they did even 10 years ago.

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And I told you before. It's not just traffic. The mass transit is busier, and I think surpassed the bay area for ridership.
lol the mass transit is NOT busier than it was pre pandemic. you read the report wrong. it's roughly 70% of the pre pandemic level, which is why it is now beating BART ridership because they are still in the 40% range. they are only hoping it can get back to pre-pandemic levels starting in 2023 but I highly doubt that happens especially with mass layoffs starting.

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It's clear to anyone who's here it feel like more people.
No it's not. busier than the pandemic for sure. busier than even 2019? hell no
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  #77  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2022, 2:53 PM
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Again, LA never challenges. Obviously it's big deal to NYC, and Chicago does i as well.
i'm not aware of any recent challenges that the city of chicago has brought against US census bureau figures.
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