DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[wong21fr]

Nevermind: TakeFive already posted about it.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by Ndj

Crazy that downtown Denver can only sustain one major condo development a decade.

I suspect it's more like prices now justify condos. Defect liability issues are an added cost and risk, but once the market can handle it...

Also, if they plan to start in Q4, maybe they have the financial strength to build without presales. That's a huge advantage...they can build at today's prices but sell at tomorrow's.

Good news if Canadian developers are showing up. They're used to building big numbers and never really stopping. Though their attempts to serve as their own GC (as planned here) can mean more hurdles during construction.

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Anytime I hear about historic preservation happening, it's been a good day

This is great! Funny the comment about a "fantastic..downtown view" is already out of date since a 15 story apartment project by Cypress is taking the parking structure immediately adjacent and that will block any view towards CBD.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

This is great! Funny the comment about a "fantastic..downtown view" is already out of date since a 15 story apartment project by Cypress is taking the parking structure immediately adjacent and that will block any view towards CBD.

You should still get a partial downtown view from the roof. The CBD will be blocked but the Theater District and the Golden Triangle will be viewable.

[Denver]

For what it is worth, Denver has some very nice midrise projects currently under construction that broke ground during Covid:

3930 Blake St: 16 stories. Can confirm it broke ground. they were working on shoring last I checked

19th and Chestnut: 13 stories. Currently going vertical .

Founderyline (38th and Blake): 17 stories. Currently working on below grade

X3: 22 stories. Currently going vertical.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by mhays

I suspect it's more like prices now justify condos. Defect liability issues are an added cost and risk, but once the market can handle it...

Also, if they plan to start in Q4, maybe they have the financial strength to build without presales. That's a huge advantage...they can build at today's prices but sell at tomorrow's.

Good news if Canadian developers are showing up. They're used to building big numbers and never really stopping. Though their attempts to serve as their own GC (as planned here) can mean more hurdles during construction.

We have also had helpful legislative fixes and supportive court decisions that have changed the construct defect liability risk landscape for developers since the last cycle.

[RyanD]

Evolve Towers are also slowly plucking their way through the permitting process. Also, their latest design review last fall was finalized and approved. It would be great to see those as well.



https://denverinfill.com/2021/04/ara...-apr-2021.html

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Evolve Towers are also slowly plucking their way through the permitting process. Also, their latest design review last fall was finalized and approved. It would be great to see those as well.



https://denverinfill.com/2021/04/ara...-apr-2021.html

I really, really, REALLY wanted this to become reality. However, I saw the land was on the market again in Oct 2020 and that Ubuntu Partners were attempting to sell the designs, land and transfer all the completed work as part of the deal. Bid deadline was listed as of June of this year. Then nothing happened and the listing was pulled. Not a good sign, but keep hope alive.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Evolve Towers are also slowly plucking their way through the permitting process. Also, their latest design review last fall was finalized and approved. It would be great to see those as well.



https://denverinfill.com/2021/04/ara...-apr-2021.html

Given the legal troubles of the developer's husband, I highly doubt this moves forward with the current development team. No clue how they could finance this. My guess is they get this permit ready and then try to flip it.

[RyanD]

^ Interesting... Well time will tell with this one too.


Also, a friendly X Denver reminder before we all get cross-eyed. X1/X2 is now just X1. X3 is X2 and the new 23-story proposal on 2000 Welton is X3 not X4.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Ndj

Crazy that downtown Denver can only sustain one major condo development a decade.

What's nice about this project is it is what I'll call upscale condos as apposed to totally high end which is about all that's been built so far.

Originally Posted by mhays

Also, if they plan to start in Q4, maybe they have the financial strength to build without presales. That's a huge advantage...they can build at today's prices but sell at tomorrow's.

My best guess is they decided the project is worth building even if they were to decide to convert it to rentals down the road. They'll have the extra legal costs related to condos is all.
That said I think these should sell well enough. It would make more sense to wait til they're ready to come out of the ground before they price it.

Originally Posted by bunt_q

We have also had helpful legislative fixes and supportive court decisions that have changed the construct defect liability risk landscape for developers since the last cycle.

Curious minds...

Assuming they pass the bi-partisan infrastructure bill in September how much more work/analysis is needed for the I-70/Floyd Hill project? Is 270 closer to being shovel ready?

Originally Posted by RyanD

Evolve Towers are also slowly plucking their way through the permitting process. Also, their latest design review last fall was finalized and approved. It would be great to see those as well.

Impossible not to like but I won't yet hold by breath on this one.

[Arapahoe]

A second tower crane has been installed at the Colorado Convention Center. They are removing the cladding from the Champa St side of the parking structure and have started hoisting steel girders to the roof where the gigantic new ballroom will be constructed - to be the largest ballroom in the state of Colorado, with an adjoining outdoor terrace and atrium overlooking the mountain views to the west.

[TakeFive]

Side Pocket

The window for the Transportation thread is now open (if briefly).

[DenvertoLA]

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

Not for long:

Denver Business Journal ran this article this morning.
Downtown Denver's largest condo project since 2009 is set to break ground soon

"The project’s developer, Vancouver, Canada-based Amacon, plans to break ground in the fourth quarter of this year, according to Mark Sheldon, the firm’s Colorado manager."

By James Rodriguez – Reporter, Denver Business Journal
10 minutes ago



https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...Pos=0#cxrecs_s

copy and paste that whole article please

[mhays]

Can't do that, due to copyrights.

As for condos vs. rentals, I believe leaving the option open means assuming condos. It's not just insurance and finance, but also stuff like:
-- a lot of added documentation and redundant QC in the construction process, to prepare for suits
-- more utility metering, potentially
-- typically the option to upgrade units if they plan to start pre-sales by midway through construction, which can be written into various subcontracts
-- more parking for condos vs. rentals (they currently plan 461 units and 522 spaces, which is generous)

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

copy and paste that whole article please

There will be tons of information coming out once they announce a groundbreaking. Still getting their sales team together and said it was too early to price the units.

Originally Posted by mhays

Can't do that, due to copyrights.

As for condos vs. rentals, I believe leaving the option open means assuming condos. It's not just insurance and finance, but also stuff like:
-- a lot of added documentation and redundant QC in the construction process, to prepare for suits
-- more utility metering, potentially
-- typically the option to upgrade units if they plan to start pre-sales by midway through construction, which can be written into various subcontracts
-- more parking for condos vs. rentals (they currently plan 461 units and 522 spaces, which is generous)

Interesting stuff.

Confluence built a condo complex called Zia in a neighborhood called Sunnyside. I thought, assuming more moderate prices these should be a good seller but perhaps their timing wasn't that good in hindsight - or that the location needs more time to appreciate the changing area.

Their Website now states.

Featuring 314 for-rent apartments and 120 for-sale condos, Zia Sunnyside will be an urban dwellers paradise. Conveniently located steps from the 41st & Fox Commuter Rail Station, residents will be one stop away from Union Station and all of Downtown Denver.

You do what you gotta do. It's a nice enough project and costs have only gone up since their groundbreaking in Sept 2018 so their investment is still good, I'd assume.


Rendering courtesy of Craine Architecture

[Arapahoe]

XD2 club levels ~17ft tall. Pretty expansive shared space consuming two full floors and also wrapping the parking levels. Constructions workers give it some perspective.

[gopokes21]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

This more than anything is evidence to me that you have no idea what you are talking about. Government construction, more than anything, is still stalled due to COVID. Governments still haven’t recovered their capital programs from the initial cuts they made at the start of COVID. And while there is a whole lot of money on its way, in the form of state and federal infrastructure money, I have never seen state and local construction as slow as it is right now. Even in 2009.

Well it would help if Denver would spend down its Elevate Denver bond program, or even half... before asking the voters for another bond package.

Eventually voters will keep saying yes and the City, moving at the speed of bureaucracy, will just be several bond packages behind schedule.

I think in/around Denver, we're seeing fewer, but larger projects. These mega projects around every corner are much more complicated in terms of financing stack, pre-development and entitlement processes, etc etc. We just need the dam to break but it's not like there's less activity overall in Denver, esp compared to 2009.

[bunt_q]

I actually think it’s the opposite. I think after a period of very large projects (which are still underway), people are scared to death of any more large projects, we have megaproject paralysis around Denver. (As a person whose career is doing these, it’s not great for me.) The problem is that we’re actually not great at project delivery (as evidenced by Elevate), so doing more smaller projects just slows everything down.

Agree completely on the bond programs. Also, to put a new arena into the bond program with no plans for completing the facilities that we already voted, let alone the remainder of the stock show campus, is also disingenuous. That’s the worst part, they’ll actually end up coming back for a third or fourth time before it’s complete. (As Robin Kniech pointed out.)

[The Dirt]

It's going to be a No Vote November for me. All of the ballot measures this year are mega dog doodoo. It just tells me that our politicians are massive pansies who are too afraid to do anything (bad or good), and would rather refer to the voters. Most of whom will be in their 70s, because anyone not retired isn't going to have enough time navigating all of the nonsense going on in Denver politics.