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  #1961  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2023, 2:28 PM
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  #1962  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2023, 3:14 PM
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The block north of this hotel is disgusting.
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  #1963  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2023, 3:51 PM
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^^^

That McDonalds use to be cool when they let one use the restroom without buying something but now they lock it.

But yeah, that block is very run down. Whoever owns the NYC Gifts shop must be making a killing to afford that rent.

My thing with this area is that its the gatekeeper for NYC. Its what a lot of people see when they take the PATH or visit. Its one the main entrances to the city (along with Penn) and to see decay, the first thing is not good. Although I kind of like the mini-Times Square vibe, but it could be improved upon,
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  #1964  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2023, 5:37 PM
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I think that Vornado owns the whole block other than the PoS on the south corner.
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  #1965  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2023, 9:08 AM
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  #1966  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2023, 1:39 PM
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the possible girth showcased by the penn in that picture is some what concerning.

fingers crossed for another revamp featuring some curves for a change.



*no you haven't stumbled across the pornhub comments.
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  #1967  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 12:05 PM
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https://nypost.com/2023/01/22/vornad...royale-source/

Vornado to join casino battle royale with gambling den at Hotel Pennsylvania: source
By Steve Cuozzo and Josh Kosman
January 22, 2023
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  #1968  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 1:19 PM
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lol this is so dumb!
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  #1969  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 1:22 PM
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I somewhat get it though. I mean it would be the best location in terms of traffic or volume for a casino. Hell, if I were building a Casino, I'd be right by MSG. But wouldn't be a small casino either. Prime location!
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  #1970  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 2:33 PM
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I somewhat get it though. I mean it would be the best location in terms of traffic or volume for a casino. Hell, if I were building a Casino, I'd be right by MSG. But wouldn't be a small casino either. Prime location!
Great location and even better.. it would mean a redesign of Foster's POS tower!!

Jeez..For that resign alone I would want a 15 Penn Casino/hotel.
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  #1971  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 3:22 PM
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Great location and even better.. it would mean a redesign of Foster's POS tower!!

Jeez..For that resign alone I would want a 15 Penn Casino/hotel.
Despite the great demand for new, premium space in NY, I don't think that this will find a tenant for a long time. The location is lousy. By the time, a tenant is found, the design may very well have changed. (I personally like it.)

Vornado needs to clean up this gross area.

Lastly, I genuinely hope that we don't have an empty lot here for ten years.
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  #1972  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 4:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
https://nypost.com/2023/01/22/vornad...royale-source/

Vornado to join casino battle royale with gambling den at Hotel Pennsylvania: source
By Steve Cuozzo and Josh Kosman
January 22, 2023

Vornado was looking at a location in Herald Square (opposite Macy’s). I doubt they would waste time trying to get a casino on this site. Too many obstacles, and they don’t want to throw any cold water on the success they’re already having at the new “Penn District”. Let alone give up a nearly 3 msf building they’re trying to get built. I don’t see trying to mix a casino with a major office building.
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  #1973  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 3:18 AM
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yesterday --

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  #1974  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 11:00 AM
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MSG is the ugliest arena in sports. The Dolans should give it a new facade.
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  #1975  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 5:10 PM
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^ better yet move it to the western hy.
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  #1976  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 5:13 PM
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^ better yet move it to the western hy.
I agree.
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  #1977  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 4:26 AM
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Those that were saying that this site won’t sit empty for years should not be so confident. My fears seem to be coming true, I fear. A nice building is coming down and a prominent lot will likely sit empty for years, smh. Vornado completely sucks in this district. Some empty lots owned by them like 34th and 8th ave are coming up on a decade (in a couple years) with no action.

They don’t specifically mention Penn 15, but the writing’s on the wall.



Developer Delays Penn Station Project, Citing Economic Conditions
Steven Roth, the CEO of Vornado, said that new construction was “almost impossible” because of tight lending, while remote work was hurting the office market.
NYTimes



Excerpts:

Vornado Realty Trust, the developer hoping to remake the skyline around Pennsylvania Station with a bundle of new office towers, has put the brakes on the massive redevelopment plan for now as interest rates remain high and the real estate market struggles to recover from the pandemic.

Steven Roth, the firm’s chief executive, voiced strong reservations about the short-term future of Penn Station development and other projects during a call with analysts on Tuesday, calling the prospect of new construction “almost impossible” because of tight lending.

Plans for the Penn site, a roughly 18 million-square-foot project that could include 10 new skyscrapers of mostly office space around the transit hub, could be delayed for at least two to three years, Michael Franco, the firm’s president and chief financial officer, said on the call. Vornado is the largest landowner in the area.

Empire State Development, the agency that is steering the project, said in a statement that it is sticking with the plan, which, in addition to the office component, could also bring 1,800 new apartments, a portion of which would be rented below market rate.

“Quarterly conditions may fluctuate, but Governor Hochul’s commitment to revitalizing Penn Station and the area surrounding it will not,” the statement said.

Mr. Roth first cast doubts on the plans in November, when he cited challenges in the new-development market without directly referring to the future of the project. In January, the company announced a nearly 30 percent cut in its quarterly dividend and was removed from the S&P 500.

“I’d say it’s dead for now,” John P. Kim, a managing director at BMO Capital Markets, said about the plan, which is also slated to include some retail and hotel space.

The latest back pedaling could create an opening for critics of the redevelopment, who are hoping the state will be receptive to plans that put more focus on the much maligned Penn Station transit hub beneath Madison Square Garden.

“The improvement of Penn Station should not be beholden to a business cycle,” said Alexandros Washburn, the former chief urban designer at the Department of City Planning and director of the Grand Penn Community Alliance, a group that supports a full overhaul of the train station....

...


A spokesman for Vornado did not address whether the company would rethink the mix in the broader Penn site, but said that work continues at Penn 1 and Penn 2, two office towers in the district that are in the process of being upgraded.

The company said it is still committed in the long run to the project. “We fully support the state’s general project plan for the Penn District, are making very significant investments in our existing buildings and are leading public private partnerships to enhance this vital transit hub,” the company said in a statement.

Like its competitors, Vornado is facing challenges because of rising interest rates and an office market that remains staggered by the growth of remote work.

In the first week of February, office occupancy was under 49 percent of prepandemic levels, according to Kastle Systems, a security-card company that tracks office building activity.

Mr. Roth has already conceded the five-day workweek. “I think you can assume that Friday is dead forever,” he said on the earnings call. “Monday is touch and go.”

Victor Calanog, the head of commercial real estate economics at Moody’s Analytics, said he was not surprised by Vornado’s decision.

“Is the best use of this space still office space, or do they need to pivot to some mixed-use component?” Mr. Calanog asked, noting that few lenders are willing to finance projects that do not have office tenant commitments.

....
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  #1978  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 5:29 AM
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Those that were saying that this site won’t sit empty for years should not be so confident. My fears seem to be coming true, I fear. A nice building is coming down and a prominent lot will likely sit empty for years, smh. Vornado completely sucks in this district. Some empty lots owned by them like 34th and 8th ave are coming up on a decade (in a couple years) with no action.

They don’t specifically mention Penn 15, but the writing’s on the wall.

Oh please. Vornado just mentioned what was already mentioned months ago. And now, just ad then, the reporter was either too dumb or too lazy (likely a mixture of both) to try and understand what it meant. The fact that Vornado will only build half of the towers is lost. The fact that this is a phased refevelopment that is supposed to fake a couple of decades (which will most likely cover a couple of cycles) is lost. And the fact that demolition of the Hotel Pennsylvania will take at least another year is lost.

I suppose Stefanos Chen - who wrote the piece - can be forgiven for his ignorance. But skyscraper geeks who both follow development of skyscrapers, and have read the information posted on this very site, not so much.

So in short, the skyscraper that will rise on this site isn’t close to rising, at least until you get beyond demo and signing. Which should be considered news to absolutely no one on this forum.
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  #1979  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 10:28 AM
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Oh please. Vornado just mentioned what was already mentioned months ago. And now, just ad then, the reporter was either too dumb or too lazy (likely a mixture of both) to try and understand what it meant. The fact that Vornado will only build half of the towers is lost. The fact that this is a phased refevelopment that is supposed to fake a couple of decades (which will most likely cover a couple of cycles) is lost. And the fact that demolition of the Hotel Pennsylvania will take at least another year is lost.

I suppose Stefanos Chen - who wrote the piece - can be forgiven for his ignorance. But skyscraper geeks who both follow development of skyscrapers, and have read the information posted on this very site, not so much.

So in short, the skyscraper that will rise on this site isn’t close to rising, at least until you get beyond demo and signing. Which should be considered news to absolutely no one on this forum.
lolol ok
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  #1980  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2023, 2:39 AM
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