The Fastest-Growing U.S. Cities Aren’t What You Think

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Your credibility is as high as Phoenix’s skyline.

That's one of the most "skyscraperpage" lines I've ever heard LOL

[pj3000]

^^ yes, but there are industrial cities of the “east coast” that were in the exact same situation in the 1970s—1990s as cities in the Great Lakes and and Midwest

There is no hard and fast rule here, as much as some people seem to want there to be.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Obadno

What cities are or are not Rust Belt is not "factual" What would be "factual" is "Syracuse, Utica, Schenectady, Scranton, Allentown and Erie" have been CALLED rust belt. That is a fact.

What is or is not "rust belt" is not A FACT but an opinion

Furthermore the only cities in your list that I thought wouldn't fit as rust belt would be Allentown and maybe Scranton.

In my OPINION I dont think anything on the eastern seaboard should be called Rust Belt as I think rust belt is as much a geographic designation as an economic one. To me it generally applies to industrial cities along the great lakes and Ohio River. (which would include most of Upstate NY and Eastern PA) Which is what I have stated the whole time.

What is "rust belt" is not a "fact" like the earth being round. Furthermore weather something is or is not fact is irrelevant in most cases. 10 people can look at 10 facts but walk away with entirely different perceptions or opinions about or based on those "facts". "facts" are also not "truth" You can take a look at various facts, come to a conclusion and have that conclusion be entirely incorrect and different from the "Truth".

This is really basic shit guys.

I'm from Utica. It's Rust Belt. Fact.

[dc_denizen]

So is Toledo, OH , home of Jeep SUVs and making 10x as many vehicles as 20 years ago, not rust belt?

The so called Midwest rust belt is nonetheless the home of much industrial activity. Same can’t really be said for the east coast rust belt (absent specialized high tech)

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by JManc

I'm from Utica. It's Rust Belt. Fact.

Opinion, at this point you aren’t even reading my posts

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by pj3000

^To YOU.

And YOU have proven yourself time and again to be a fool from Phoenix.

Your credibility is as high as Phoenix’s skyline.

All of you people are loathsome. I used tot think this forum was full of thoughtful and intelligent people but it turns out it’s just a bunch idiotic and petty clowns that have no interest in having actual discussion about urban issues.

[JAYNYC]

Originally Posted by Obadno

All of you people are loathsome. I used tot think this forum was full of thoughtful and intelligent people but it turns out it’s just a bunch idiotic and petty clowns that have no interest in having actual discussion about urban issues.

So is that ^ your final post? If so, no need to respond.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by JAYNYC

So is that ^ your final post? If so, no need to respond.

No lol I very much enjoy debating overconfident and ill informed people like yourself.

[KB0679]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I don't think I know everything, I explained to you why I disagree with the Websters definition of Rust Belt and why.

You don't like my explanation, I don't like your deference to Websters definition and find your appeal to authority to be an unpersuasive shallow point.

You aren't willing to consider anything else, you are an uncreative shallow thinker. The end.

I never cited Webster as a source. And not that it would persuade you in the least since you've basically discounted every semblance of authority on this issue, here's an article about states and major cities constituting the Rust Belt.

I'm willing to consider other perspectives but I simply find yours to be arbitrary and deficient. It boils down to "I only consider places in the Midwest to be in the Rust Belt; thus nothing on the East Coast is Rust Belt." And the funny thing is you consider that to be an actual argument.

At this point it's obvious that you don't care about facts but only about the appearance of being correct. And by doing so every post of yours in this thread winds up being just a little more nonsensical and emotional than the last. It's all become rather Trumpian.

Again, there's no harm in stating "I never saw it like that and while the Rust Belt is mostly confined to the Midwest, I can at least see why certain Northeastern/East Coast cities are included." Nobody knows everything and I have no clue why you're so loathe to admit that you learned something in this thread.

[Obadno]

Did you even read the article. Hell it came with a map and he defines "Rust belt" essentially as I did. He then adds Baltimore as a strange outlier to the other examples.



This guy is essentially making the same argument and description that I used, Baltimore I dont think fits (although he used it) as it is primarily a port city and as such was not part of the "industrial heartland" beyond the Appalachian mountains.

As Shawn pointed out the only cities in New England that could be "rust belt" are really old Mill towns from Early Industrial days but they also dont fit our modern notion of what the "rust belt" is.

So thank you for this article as it demonstrates EXACTLY what im talking about other than his addition of Baltimore which I would still disagree with.

[JManc]

Your map shows the north country of Upstate New York as 'New England' so I'm going to take that map and the guy who put it together as one person's flawed perspective. One who obviously not very good at geography. He's also using physical barriers (continental divide) as the cut off point for the Rust Belt region.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by JManc

. He's also using physical barriers (continental divide) as the cut off point for the Rust Belt region.

Geography is a huge reason to why the rust belt should be limited to the Ohio river and Great lakes, inland industrial towns that were reliant on rail, barge, and lake shipping to get their products out to the rest of the country and world.

That is the reason Baltimore and NYC and Philly are not "rust belt" they may have had factories but a much longer and more important part of their economies and histories are shipping goods from the interior out to the world and importing goods from the world for the heartland to consume.

Importing and exporting is a large reason why the East coast was and is the primary financial hub. (same reason its primarily San Francisco in the west)

Chicago is a little more unique as it became an inland shipping center for the entire Midwest, both industrial and agricultural hence the commodities market.

So yes geography is absolutely inseparable from economics and culture and defining a term like the "rust belt"

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Geography is a huge reason to why the rust belt should be limited to the Ohio river and Great lakes, inland industrial towns that were reliant on rail, barge, and lake shipping to get their products out to the rest of the country and world.

That is the reason Baltimore and NYC and Philly are not "rust belt" they may have had factories but a much longer and more important part of their economies and histories are shipping goods from the interior out to the world and importing goods from the world for the heartland to consume.

Importing and exporting is a large reason why the East coast was and is the primary financial hub. (same reason its primarily San Francisco in the west)

Chicago is a little more unique as it became an inland shipping center for the entire Midwest, both industrial and agricultural hence the commodities market.

So yes geography is absolutely inseparable from economics and culture and defining a term like the "rust belt"

File this all under "shit you made up."

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Did you even read the article. Hell it came with a map and he defines "Rust belt" essentially as I did. He then adds Baltimore as a strange outlier to the other examples.



This guy is essentially making the same argument and description that I used, Baltimore I dont think fits (although he used it) as it is primarily a port city and as such was not part of the "industrial heartland" beyond the Appalachian mountains.

As Shawn pointed out the only cities in New England that could be "rust belt" are really old Mill towns from Early Industrial days but they also dont fit our modern notion of what the "rust belt" is.

So thank you for this article as it demonstrates EXACTLY what im talking about other than his addition of Baltimore which I would still disagree with.

Toronto is the Rust Belt but Baltimore is not. Yeah, sure.

[pj3000]

I love how according to that map most of New York and Pennsylvania are not part of this idiot dude's "rust belt"

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

File this all under "shit you made up."

Lol that isn’t anything I made up but there is no point in arguing with you. You are disingenuous

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I love how according to that map most of New York and Pennsylvania are not part of this idiot dude's "rust belt"

That “idiots” rust belt is, I’d argue. The more common and widespread idea of rust belt than anything on the east coast

I’d actually consider more of upstate New York rust belt too but the map is pretty good

Tried to add more maps but the links were garbage. By most places you can find the rust belt talked about in detail its either wholly off the east coast, it includes some east coast cities as like outliers or pockets of rust belt on the coast. I disagree with this as I think its just getting to in the weeds for the point of the distinction "rust belt"

The whole reason the term exists is to describe the post-industrial heartland along the Ohio and Great lakes like I've been saying. But this also demonstrates that nothing about this argument is truly factual and its just various opinions and different measures people want to use.

I think geography is a major part of the distinction, some people seem to think its purely and economic distinction, I would argue that cant be the case otherwise you might as well call Stockton CA or Mobile AL "rust Belt"

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Lol that isn’t anything I made up but there is no point in arguing with you. You are disingenuous

There's nothing to argue about. The term is well-defined. You're trying to bend it to fit some definition that no one else agrees with you about. But this isn't about the definition of Rust Belt. This is about you completely twisting a term to fit your own world view.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

There's nothing to argue about. The term is well-defined. You're trying to bend it to fit some definition that no one else agrees with you about. But this isn't about the definition of Rust Belt. This is about you completely twisting a term to fit your own world view.

It’s not well defined at all go ahead and google one of hundreds of articles and maps and they are all different

[iheartthed]

Whatever the Rust Belt is, Baltimore has always been part of it.

Millennials Bring New Life to Some Rust Belt Cities

BALTIMORE — Educated millennials are transforming some neighborhoods in several Rust Belt cities like this one, where old flour and textile mills are being converted to apartments and faded industrial districts have become thriving enclaves with colorful street life.

Staci Knobel, 28, recently moved to the once blue-collar Baltimore neighborhood of Hampden with college friends after finding herself “bored, depressed” in upstate New York. Here, she said, she has found excitement in the city’s electronic music scene and computer gaming conventions.

“I love the city, I’ve made friends and explored. It’s affordable and hip,” Knobel said.

Baltimore — along with Buffalo, New York; Chicago; Grand Rapids, Michigan; Pittsburgh and St. Louis — is experiencing some of the biggest increases in the number of young college graduates among large cities. They are hoping this wave of young people, often drawn by industries that require an educated workforce, will offset broader population declines and reinvigorate their economies.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...st-belt-cities

Redefining Rust Belt Conference

Redefining “Rust Belt”: An Exchange of Strategies by the Cities of Baltimore, Cleveland, Detroit, and Philadelphia

The first videoconference, held June 18, aimed to survey the landscape of current urban redevelopment strategies and identify areas of shared interest among community leaders from the four cities. Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings Blake spoke about her city’s initiative to increase its population by 10,000 residents by 2020, citing several critical collaborative efforts that have moved the city closer to its goal. In his remarks, keynote speaker Jeremy Nowak outlined specific challenges facing older industrial regions, as well as areas of opportunity. The agenda provides details of the initial videoconference, which connected leaders gathered at all four sites. This summary document captures key themes that arose from the discussions among participants; these themes will drive the agendas of subsequent events in the series.

https://www.clevelandfed.org/newsroo...he-cities.aspx

The Rust Belt Theory of Low-Cost High Culture
...

What gives? Call it the Rust Belt theory of low-cost high culture. Baltimore is one of a handful of cities where the economic might and urban scale of a bygone era (Baltimore was the sixth-largest city in the country as recently as 1960) created both premier cultural institutions and a foundation of local wealth—aka old money—that, however dissipated by time, lingers to this day and continues to provide support for the institutions. At the same time, however, these cities’ decline in population and prominence has left these institutions perpetually on the hunt for new patrons.

...
https://slate.com/culture/2015/01/ch...ze-cities.html

The Rust Belt Has Arrived
Interest in cities that have fallen on hard times in the Midwest and Northeast brings new cachet to living and working in the Rust Belt.

Step aside Boston, New York City, San Francisco and Seattle. Sorry, but you’re just not cool anymore. These days, you need to have crumbling roads, triple-decker apartment buildings, old-fashioned neighborhood bars and lots of rust to gain any hipster cred. When Anthony Bourdain, host of the trendy travel and food show No Reservations, passes up Tuscany, Provence and Barcelona to visit Baltimore, Buffalo and Detroit, you know the Rust Belt has arrived.

The "rust is chic" movement has been around for a while, but thanks to blogs and online magazines, such as RustWire.com, a certain fascination with places that have fallen on hard times like the Rust Belt -- which stretches from the Midwest through the mid-Atlantic and up into the Northeast -- has taken hold. Part of it is the scruffy, industrial look. It may also be a rejection of cities with gleaming condo towers, bistros and boutiques that were once so trendy yet now seem so frothy and fake in the wake of the economic meltdown.

https://www.governing.com/columns/ur...t-Arrived.html

What Is The Rust Belt?

One of the major cities in the Rust Belt is Chicago, Illinois. The city's close proximity to the American west, the Mississippi River, and Lake Michigan meant that the movement of people, products, and raw materials was easy. This led to the city becoming known as a major transportation center in the 20th century. Chicago mainly specialized in the production of cattle, lumber, and wheat products. A canal was later constructed in 1848 to connect the Great Lakes and the Mississippi River. Chicago grew to be one of the biggest railroad centers in North America and serves as a manufacturing center for freight and passenger railroad cars. Baltimore, Maryland is another major city in the Rust Belt region. It is located on the eastern shores of Chesapeake Bay. Maryland has the availability of rivers and inlets connecting to Chesapeake Bay. Having the longest waterfront, Maryland was significant in the production of metals and transportation equipment, such as ships. Other major cities in the rustbelt region include Buffalo, NY, Detroit, MI, and St. Louis, MO.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...rust-belt.html

Revitalizing Baltimore through immigration
...

In Rust Belt communities such as Baltimore, immigration has slowed — and in some cases reversed — decades of population loss. In July 2012, after 60 years of population decline, the Census Bureau reported an increase in Baltimore's population. The increase was attributed in part to growing international migration.
...

https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion...226-story.html